Fretless Dead Spots?

[Linus27]

Is it me or do pretty much all fretless basses have dead spots? I have an Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray with a fretless Pau Ferro neck and the C# (6th fret on the G String) never has the same sustain as other notes on the G String and tends to die out really quickly. Plus one of two notes much higher up on the G string, for example the A also tends to suffer. Other notes however sustain and mwah for ages. I also have a fretless Fender Precision with a lacquered maple neck and again, the C# (6th fret on the G String) suffers with the same lack of sustain where as other notes sustain and sing beautifully. My Fender Jazz that has an Ebony fretless board also tends to suffer with certain notes on the G sting totally lacking sustain where as other notes sustain and sing beautifully.

 

Is this a common issue with fretless basses?

Edited April 21, 2022 by Linus27

[Machines]

14 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

Is it me or do pretty much all fretless basses have dead spots?

 

Fixed it for you.

 

In my experience it's to do with a specific resonant frequency related to the mass of the instrument. To check this - hold your headstock against a doorframe as tight as you can without damaging anything, play the same note and I bet it sounds better.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Machines

[Linus27]

32 minutes ago, Machines said:

 

Fixed it for you.

 

In my experience it's to do with a specific resonant frequency related to the mass of the instrument. To check this - hold your headstock against a doorframe as tight as you can without damaging anything, play the same note and I bet it sounds better.

 

Oooh I like the sound of this. So do I hold it against the door frame so that the tip of the headstock it touching the door frame? 

[Machines]

Any part that increases the surface area of contact, depends on your headstock shape really. Should work with the body too if that's easier. The point is to increase the mass of the instrument by making something else 'part of it' to prove the point.

 

Also - try downtuning a semitone, I bet the deadspot moves too.

[Linus27]

Ok cool, I get you, will try that tonight.

[three]

Every fretless I’ve owned - a status graphite necked apart - had dead or dull spots at or close to where the OP describes. Frustrating but almost inevitable in my experience

[tauzero]

Alternatively, chop the headstock off. No problem with dead spots on my headless basses. Headstocks - just say no.

[zbd1960]

I rather suspect that this is a variation on the 'wolf note' issue that acoustic instruments like violins and cellos can suffer from. Essentially it will be a resonance issue with (presumably) the note/fret being at some sort of node. This is the inverse of the issue with acoustic instruments. With cellos the wolf note is created by the resonance and you have to find a way of damping it, or moving it to somewhere where it won't be heard. I'm lucky in that my cello doesn't have an obvious wolf, but I know some people have big challenges with it. 

 

With acoustic instruments, you need to suppress the resonance or alter its pitch so that it falls in between notes. There are various 'wolf suppressors' you can get... The bass issue is obviously the other way round in that you have some sort of node/dead spot. I don't know enough to know how to change that - or if it's even possible. I don't know if strings of a different mass or tension might 'move' the dead spots? I would guess the issue relates more to the body and neck.   

Edited April 22, 2022 by zbd1960

[Linus27]

Thanks for the replies everyone, really appreciate it and interesting reading. Glad I'm also not the only one who has noticed this issue. I guess it's a case of working around the dead spots.

 

@Machines I tried what you suggested and yes indeed, the note sustained for much longer when I rested the head stock against the door frame. You could really feel through the bass the additional vibrations running through the neck and body. Thank you.

[Daz39]

This also works if you are  just too far away from your car for the key fob to lock/unlock it - hold the fob to your head while you press it.

[JPJ]

This is why you occasionally see bassists using a 'Fatfinger' or similar clamp like device that adds mass to the headstock. Great for dead notes, not so great for neck dive. 

[ikay]

A tiny tweak to the trussrod (in either direction) can also help to shift or reduce a deadspot.

 

[Machines]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

This is why you occasionally see bassists using a 'Fatfinger' or similar clamp like device that adds mass to the headstock. Great for dead notes, not so great for neck dive. 

 

This will just move the deadspot. Ok if its currently on a note you need to use a lot - but it may make things worse if it isn't. I haven't had an instrument so far that hasn't had a deadspot, they're just usually not in a well use place (e.g. 6th fret G string on my P bass)

[Linus27]

38 minutes ago, Machines said:

 

This will just move the deadspot. Ok if its currently on a note you need to use a lot - but it may make things worse if it isn't. I haven't had an instrument so far that hasn't had a deadspot, they're just usually not in a well use place (e.g. 6th fret G string on my P bass)

 

Same for me on my fretless Precision then, 6th fret of the G string.

[JPJ]

4 hours ago, Machines said:

 

This will just move the deadspot. Ok if its currently on a note you need to use a lot - but it may make things worse if it isn't. I haven't had an instrument so far that hasn't had a deadspot, they're just usually not in a well use place (e.g. 6th fret G string on my P bass)

You would think so wouldn’t you, and I must admit I haven’t tried this myself but they seem popular so I assume they have some positive affect? 

[mr4stringz]

8 hours ago, Linus27 said:

Thanks for the replies everyone, really appreciate it and interesting reading. Glad I'm also not the only one who has noticed this issue. I guess it's a case of working around the dead spots.

 

@Machines I tried what you suggested and yes indeed, the note sustained for much longer when I rested the head stock against the door frame. You could really feel through the bass the additional vibrations running through the neck and body. Thank you.

 

Time for an ‘architraves for sale’ thread.

[Machines]

3 hours ago, JPJ said:

You would think so wouldn’t you, and I must admit I haven’t tried this myself but they seem popular so I assume they have some positive affect? 

 

I'd dispute that they're popular, I haven't ever had one nor seen one in use.

[alyctes]

I'm going to try holding the tip of the headstock against the drummer.

[alyctes]

I guess a clip-on tuner on the headstock would have some effect.  Might depend on exactly where it was clipped on, as well.

[Mokl]

Yep, C# on G string dead spot on my Jazz fretless. Feel a little less annoyed about it now!

[Chris2112]

Not every fretless, no. But of every type of bass I've tried, Stingrays tend to suffer the worst from dead spots and particularly for the Stingray, bad string to string balance and a weak G string. 

 

The dead spots I can live with but the weak G strings really irritate me with Musicman basses hence why I wouldn't buy one that I couldn't playtest first. 

[aguacollas]

i just checked all 120 positions on my Warwick Corvette fna 5 with 6 years old Thomastik flats. No dead spots or weak notes.

I have them on other fretted basses, but not in this fretless. I'll check the other one I have.

[aguacollas]

'82 Ibanez Roadster fretless. No dead spots neither. I have to say I use a clip tuner and the knowledge of the existence of that kind of problems and others is what made me avoid buying some brands like Fender.

But I think my 87 Warwick Streamer has a dead spot on the D string 10th fret. Frets needs dressing, so maybe it's  just that as other C notes rings perfectly on the other strings. I think maybe a brighter tone tends to accentuate the problem, too.

[drTStingray]

On 23/04/2022 at 12:22, Chris2112 said:

Not every fretless, no. But of every type of bass I've tried, Stingrays tend to suffer the worst from dead spots and particularly for the Stingray, bad string to string balance and a weak G string. 

 

The dead spots I can live with but the weak G strings really irritate me with Musicman basses hence why I wouldn't buy one that I couldn't playtest first. 

If you played a Stingray fretless you’d find the bass, and especially the G string are plenty loud enough and although mine has notes which are not as loud as others (C# on G string I think), they are still fully usable - slightly less mwah on them. Did you ever hear Pino’s work on a Stingray - no problem with string to string balance etc there. 
 

Stingray Specials are excellent in string to string balance.

 

Having said that, I have 11 Stingrays of which only two were played before buying - none have appreciable dead spots and none suffer from individual strings being quieter than others - they are all properly set up, generally to factory specs - string type/make can have a bearing on how well they play. 
 

If you look at the original concept of the Stingray you’ll find the 3 over 1 headstock was designed to avoid the dead spots which occur on traditional 4 in line headstocks - in my experience I’ve never had to avoid certain notes on Stingrays owing to dead spots (that said if you listen to Jamerson isolated bass tracks, you can hear comparative dead spots and differences in string volume - doesn’t stop the lines being revered!!)

 

[Linus27]

On 23/04/2022 at 08:14, Mokl said:

Yep, C# on G string dead spot on my Jazz fretless. Feel a little less annoyed about it now!

 

Yep also feeling a little less annoyed about my dead C# on G String 🙂