Chienmortbb Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 I have always looked at the 1% THD +N figure as the gold standard for amplifiers. Many hifi amps have noise figures many times better but if you can hear 1% on a bass at a gig then you are a better human than I an Gunga Din. I think Mesa via @agedhorse have IP on how the squeeze the extra power from ICEPower but I will let @agedhorse explain what he can and if he wants. I have been told by someone whose knowledge is greater than mine that the power ratings of the Mesa's are genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 28 minutes ago, DGBass said: The TE1200 also doesn't spec a THD figure. Yes it does. 1100W at 4 ohms, 835W at 8 ohms, 1% THD+N is in the manual 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 I suppose in reality a THD spec is only a sales differentiator at the end of the day for some folks. I would never claim I could tell the difference between 1% or 5% THD, or 700 and 800 watts. I'm more curious why some amp makers quote one and some don't. And why Ice Power ratings are different from the finished products they go into especially when they are higher. I only mentioned Mesa as an example where there isn't a figure on thier website. It might be in the user guide though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Merton said: Yes it does. 1100W at 4 ohms, 835W at 8 ohms, 1% THD+N is in the manual Thank you. Edited September 14 by DGBass read the manual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 1 minute ago, DGBass said: Thank you. Is that in the used guide, as I couldn't see it on the website. Yeah it’s in the user manual, page 8: https://assets.peavey.com/literature/manuals/119253_38239.pdf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 (edited) When I had my TE Elf its plan was the smallest back up amp to my all valve head in case of valve failure mid gig. Tried it with the band ( loud ) and it was awesome but could it run like that for 3hrs I’m not sure as never had to. Eventually sold it as I found no need for it since I sold off my V4B The Eich T900 is bigger and it sounds awesome and is as light as I would care for and a better size for good cooling fans etc Too light they are easily pulled off a cab etc and they look kinda puny on a big cab !! It was a shame the Elf wasn’t bigger and had a Speakon connector so as a spare it would quickly be swopped over mid gig without changing to a Speakon / Jack lead Edited September 14 by BassAdder60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 Curious thought, it says 1100w at 4 ohms in the manual, but the website says: Features 1200 bone-rattling watts of true RMS power! I've no idea whether Peavey use a readily available class D module in the TE1200 but it sort of reinforces my suggestion that watts appear to be going missing between engineering and sales departments ☺️ The Elf definetly quotes 200 watts so thats something. I'm not knocking any particular amp brand or model of amp. There will be companies that develop their own in house technologies, and these are the companies that can use their own more detailed specs to market their products more convincingly imho. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 The TE-1200 uses a modified Peavey IPR power amp design, not off the shelf. Certainly seems there’s some disparity between marketing and engineering 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 3 hours ago, DGBass said: Mesa as an example don't quote a THD figure for the Subway D800 amps that I can find on their sales specs. Actually they do, if you dig around in the support docs section. Just wanted to clarify that they do provide specs. Well done Mesa! It states 800 watts rms @ 4 ohms, 10% THD (includes preamp O/D THD) I assume that refers to the pre-amp O/D THD being inclusive in how they measure that spec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 10 hours ago, DGBass said: Do ELF's get hot to the touch after a three hour gig? No. They have very good fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Take the feet off the elf and put taller ones on. Allows air too circulate underneath, runs much cooler. Cost about £2. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 To elucidate further, most of the fan noise on the elf is from high airflow. A quieter fan may not shift enough air for good cooling. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 On 14/09/2024 at 07:27, DGBass said: I suppose in reality a THD spec is only a sales differentiator at the end of the day for some folks. I would never claim I could tell the difference between 1% or 5% THD, or 700 and 800 watts. I'm more curious why some amp makers quote one and some don't. And why Ice Power ratings are different from the finished products they go into especially when they are higher. I only mentioned Mesa as an example where there isn't a figure on thier website. It might be in the user guide though. The detailed specs are located in the back of each owner’s manual. We specify the rated power at THD less that 10% because much of the harmonics are added in the preamp and power amp tube emulation circuits in addition to the tube preamps themselves (WD and TT) when driven hard. It’s similar in concept to say the SVT which uses 5% THD, or the Darkglass amps that use ~20% THD (presumably because their drive circuits are the basis of their fundamental tone). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 4 hours ago, agedhorse said: We specify the rated power at THD less that 10% because much of the harmonics are added in the preamp and power amp tube emulation circuits in addition to the tube preamps themselves (WD and TT) when driven hard. Presumably that means that from the returns or aux inputs you get a much lower THD figure, more in line with the power module's base specs? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 16 hours ago, Chienmortbb said: Presumably that means that from the returns or aux inputs you get a much lower THD figure, more in line with the power module's base specs? Yes, lower THD without the preamp, the output stage emulation algorithms are different than the gain stage algorithms. It also depends on the amp model, for example the TT-800 uses different algorithms than say the D-800 or 800+. It also depends on how hard the gain stage(s) and the output are driven, the character and distortion harmonics change with both level and frequency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Gigged my Elf last night for a 2.5 hour hot, sweaty pub gig because the power in the pub was making my Handbox make some weird noises a it’s obviously susceptible to noise sadly so power conditioner is on the cards… The Elf didn’t put a foot wrong. Quiet as a mouse when not playing, plenty of volume and heft with all the different patches on my HX effects. Lots of really nice compliments from the audience including a recent ACM graduate who told me my tone was “perfect”, “crushing” (it was a rock covers band so this is good!) and “exactly what he tries to achieve”. I caught him googling both the Trace and Barefaced options in our break 🤣 So, can’t the Elf hang with a band for a long hot gig? Yes. Was a worried about it at all? No. 😎 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 What speaker cab(s) were you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 hour ago, Mickeyboro said: What speaker cab(s) were you using? Barefaced Super Twin, which it’s fair to say helped the situation with the Elf! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Thanks. I used a single One10 with my Elf on Friday as playing a very acoustically efficient venue (see gigs thread) but have just acquired a Two10… as yet untested. Have to admit I turn the Elf off at half time! Possibly scared by this thread 😂 But with an active Sandberg I know I can cope in many places with the small one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 I’ve used an Elf with a Two10 on many occasions and it’s superb. It can hold its own with a band but would want PA support if you get loud 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSeagull Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 I’m wondering how an Elf would cope in my loud ish pub band with two MB NY121 cabs. I already one cab and the Elf - looking to downsize weight from current rig (see my Ultra Lightweight Cabs thread) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossyrocks Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 30 minutes ago, SuperSeagull said: I’m wondering how an Elf would cope in my loud ish pub band with two MB NY121 cabs. I already one cab and the Elf - looking to downsize weight from current rig (see my Ultra Lightweight Cabs thread) With two NY121 cabs presenting 4 ohms to the amp, I think you would have more than enough. I've gigged mine with a single BF 10 and it coped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Yep I’ve used my old SVT212 AV 4ohm cab with the ELF and it was fine in a very loud rock band !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSeagull Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 45 minutes ago, ossyrocks said: With two NY121 cabs presenting 4 ohms to the amp, I think you would have more than enough. I've gigged mine with a single BF 10 and it coped. I might give this a try next Friday when we gig. I can hook up the internal 12" speaker in my MB combo plus the NY and see how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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