Working shift's or any other barrier that prevents us joining bands!

[Horizontalste]

18 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Before I book, I make sure everyone can do the gig. 
 

Let's say the gig is booked two months in advance - those on shifts will have no idea what their hours are until the week of. Gig cancelled etc etc. 

Not necessarily, I know my shifts for the year in advance as do many shift workers.

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Supernaut said:

My band, my rules...

 

OK, no problem with that. It's what I call 'harsh'. 

[Supernaut]

3 hours ago, Horizontalste said:

Not necessarily, I know my shifts for the year in advance as do many shift workers.

Every shift worker I've played with has had to pull out of a gig last minute. 

[Supernaut]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

 

OK, no problem with that. It's what I call 'harsh'. 

I call it 'professional'. 

[Dad3353]

12 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

I call it 'professional'. 

 

A Good Professional has a back-up plan (Drummer down with appendicitis, keys stranded in Kuala Lumpur due to unforseen civil unrest, trumpetist has a broken jaw...), and can cope with an absence. The railways don't stop because Charlie The Driver overslept. 

[SamIAm]

Hear you!

 

I'm an NHS critical care nurse.  The seemingly random shifts I work play havoc with rehearsals ... for gigs I have to book leave.

 

But playing (albeit badly) does feed my soul ... so I make it work.

 

S'manth x

[Downunderwonder]

5 hours ago, Supernaut said:

Before I book, I make sure everyone can do the gig. 
 

Let's say the gig is booked two months in advance - those on shifts will have no idea what their hours are until the week of. Gig cancelled etc etc. 

Not true. Many shift workers could tell you what shift they are on way further than 2 months out.

[Supernaut]

10 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

A Good Professional has a back-up plan (Drummer down with appendicitis, keys stranded in Kuala Lumpur due to unforseen civil unrest, trumpetist has a broken jaw...), and can cope with an absence. The railways don't stop because Charlie The Driver overslept. 

I guess you're okay with unreliability then. 

[Supernaut]

9 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Not true. Many shift workers could tell you what shift they are on way further than 2 months out.

Not in my experience. One week max. 

[DaytonaRik]

In the current line-up we have myself working a 1 weekend in 5 on call rota (safety critical rail systems so no skipping that one!) and the drummer works alternate weekends and can be anywhere with a 100 radius of where the gig is.

 

However, in this band we have long had the belief that we want to do it for fun and have a 1 gig per month stance, with the odd peak and trough as bookings dictate.  This gives us a chance for family life, other hobbies, free weekends and whatever else anyone wants to do.  I firmly believe that goes a long way to making sure that playing in a band remains fun and doesn't become a chore.

[Dad3353]

38 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

I guess you're okay with unreliability then. 

 

In the sense that 'That's Life', yes, I am.  I didn't plan to get a urinary infection, but here it is, harsh reality. I'd be a disaster, this week, on any stage, with any repertoire. I've no gig, as it happens, this week-end, but if I had one, I'd have to desist. 'Stuff' happens; deal with it. If that's 'unreliable', then I plead guilty. Good luck with your projects.

[Doddy]

14 hours ago, Supernaut said:

I call it 'professional'. 

 

What I'd also call professional is not bring able to do a gig for whatever reason, but sorting out a suitable sub quickly and with no hassle.

 

I agree that no one wants someone in the band who is going to consistently let everyone down (for whatever reason) and keep pulling out of gigs, but sometimes stinky poo happens, and most decent musicians should be able to call in a suitable sub. 

 

 

[Supernaut]

Calling in a last minute sub is almost impossible for a covers band, let alone originals. 

[Horizontalste]

16 hours ago, Supernaut said:

Every shift worker I've played with has had to pull out of a gig last minute. 

You ever had this from a non shift worker? I have, but didn't change me playing with other non shift workers.

Sometimes life just gets in the way.

[Supernaut]

12 minutes ago, Horizontalste said:

You ever had this from a non shift worker? I have, but didn't change me playing with other non shift workers.

Sometimes life just gets in the way.

No. Unless someone was so ill they had to go to the hospital - that I can forgive. 

[BigRedX]

6 hours ago, Doddy said:

 

What I'd also call professional is not bring able to do a gig for whatever reason, but sorting out a suitable sub quickly and with no hassle.

 

I agree that no one wants someone in the band who is going to consistently let everyone down (for whatever reason) and keep pulling out of gigs, but sometimes stinky poo happens, and most decent musicians should be able to call in a suitable sub. 

 

How appropriate a dep/sub is will very much depend on the band. Originals bands, especially those with an image may well struggle to find someone who can learn the songs quickly enough and still look the part on stage. I've been in originals band that have used deps in the past and my experience of it has been less than brilliant, and in future I'd seriously consider cancelling the gig than give my audience a second-rate experience. Even a simple instruction like "wear black, no trainers or prominent brand/band logos" has turned out to be too difficult for some musicians to grasp.

Edited August 4, 2022 by BigRedX

[Doddy]

1 hour ago, Supernaut said:

Calling in a last minute sub is almost impossible for a covers band, let alone originals. 

It's really not. 

Quick example.... A few weeks ago I had to sub out a gig I was doing, which was mostly original material, on the morning of the gig.  I made a phone call, gave the details, emailed the charts, and it was all sorted in 10 minutes. Everyone was happy. 

I've also been the one who has had the call to step in last minute. This kind of stuff happens all the time, and there are plenty of players who can step in and nail the gig.

 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

6 minutes ago, Doddy said:

It's really not. 

Quick example.... A few weeks ago I had to sub out a gig I was doing, which was mostly original material, on the morning of the gig.  I made a phone call, gave the details, emailed the charts, and it was all sorted in 10 minutes. Everyone was happy. 

I've also been the one who has had the call to step in last minute. This kind of stuff happens all the time, and there are plenty of players who can step in and nail the gig.

Very much agreed. As @BigRedX mentioned, I think it can be very difficult for originals bands as they can rarely find someone with a head start i.e knowing most of the material to begin with, but covers band deps are fairly easy to find. You just need to know the right people. I've depped for and had loads of deps in for many gigs this year already. We had a rehearsal for a dep guitarists benefit just last night for a gig this Saturday. Sent him the charts, he turned up, smashed it. He was that good he'll be our first call for any of our theatre gigs if we need him.

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

How appropriate a dep/sub is will very much depend on the band. Originals bands, especially those with an image may well struggle to find someone who can learn the songs quickly enough and still look the part on stage. I've been in originals band that have used deps in the past and my experience of it has been less than brilliant, and in future I'd seriously consider cancelling the gig than give my audience a second-rate experience. Even a simple instruction like "wear black, no trainers or prominent brand/brand logos" has turned out to be too difficult for some musicians to grasp.

 

This is all true, but, if it's really that important, it behoves of either each musician, or the band leader, or the management, to be sure that there's a suitable dep 'on the books' (maybe two or three..?). It has happened, in the past, that, for one reason or nother, gigs have to be cancelled, too. So..? It's not an Ideal World, and one plans things as best as possible, but the expression 'The best laid plans...' has a ring of fatality to it (plus 'Sod's Law', of course...). OK, keep only those 'reliable' professionals', paying them adequately, and carry on. No problem. Others deal with the lemons Life deals out in other ways. It's all good. 
I had a week's break, end of season, late '70s, so booked a trip back to Blighty to see family and friends. The Sax/Flute and Bass came with me, for the jaunt. We spent our week, and caught the ferry back, from Portsmouth to St Malo. We also caught one hell of a storm. The ferry couldn't approach any harbour; it had to circle Jersey all night and all next day until it passed. All cabins were opened; we all spent 36 hours on that crazy rocking boat, being tossed like a cork. The sax/flute bunked down; I went to see how he was faring, and understood why seasick passengers are portrayed as being 'green'? He was very, very 'green'..! The dining quarters were opened, and free, but no-one had any appetite.
I was able, by joining the long queue, to make a ship-to-shore 'phone call to announce to our band leader that we would not be able to make the gig that evening (we should have been docked the day before, but no sign of any let-up...). He called upon his resources to do the dates for that week-end, and all three of us were 'let go'. A pity, as it was a good, solid, working band, doing five-hour stints of dance variety all over the West of France most week-ends in season, but we, all three, just picked up other dates and the World spun on. Unreliable..? Define 'unreliable'. 

[Horizontalste]

@Supernaut I started this thread to discuss something that I'd observed over the years that may have impacted other people too.

 

Everyone's input is valid, obviously & I'm very open minded & I know that there are always multiple perspectives on every topic & mine isn't always best/right.

 

With that said, I think that your "my band, my rules" philosophy could possibly put you in a position that limits your possibilities & takes away opportunities for creativity that could be amazing.

 

I have worked various shift systems for thirty years, & I have never, never, never ever cancelled a gig for any reason let alone day job commitments.

If I can't make it I know in advance & I won't commit to anything knowing that there's even the slightest chance of letting anyone down.

 

What I have absolutely experienced is many opportunities is to get together with other musicians, both in long term & short term projects & create music & entertain people.

& Isn't that why we do this?

 

Sure, some bands are more serious than others & what people want from bands differs, but, one constant remains in all situations & that is this.

We are musicians, we create music, we bounce off eachother harmonically & create sounds that make us & other people feel good.

I haven't spent more years than I care to count honing my skills to limit my opportunities. I will play with anyone, from the seasoned vets to the kids just starting out because I learn from them all.

Sure, constant BS & let downs is frustrating to everyone but give people the chance to let you down man. You never know, the best player you've ever played with, the one that really brings your sh*t alive might just be around the corner, & they might just be a shift worker.

Don't limit your possibilities because we all have to put food on the table, & that doesn't make us less loving of our craft or by any way automatically unreliable!

[colleya]

10 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

However, in this band we have long had the belief that we want to do it for fun and have a 1 gig per month stance, with the odd peak and trough as bookings dictate.  This gives us a chance for family life, other hobbies, free weekends and whatever else anyone wants to do.  I firmly believe that goes a long way to making sure that playing in a band remains fun and doesn't become a chore.

This is exactly the approach my band has had for the last 12 years, which I think is the major contributing factor to it lasting. Reading some of the stories on here makes me appreciate just how lucky I've been.

 

We're not affected by shifts etc, but the drummer is moving further away and the guitarist is retiring at the end of 2023, so that will be it for us. I'll be back looking for a band with the same level of commitment and fun. No idea how that will go after so long, but at least I've got loads of notice.

[Horizontalste]

21 hours ago, Smanth said:

Hear you!

 

I'm an NHS critical care nurse.  The seemingly random shifts I work play havoc with rehearsals ... for gigs I have to book leave.

 

But playing (albeit badly) does feed my soul ... so I make it work.

 

S'manth x

@Smanth out of curiosity, do you also work on "the bank"?

& If you do would you take a low paid (sorry for being presumptuous)) gig over a (want to use the word "lucrative" but as a public sector worker I know better) NHS shift?

[Horizontalste]

36 minutes ago, colleya said:

This is exactly the approach my band has had for the last 12 years, which I think is the major contributing factor to it lasting. Reading some of the stories on here makes me appreciate just how lucky I've been.

 

We're not affected by shifts etc, but the drummer is moving further away and the guitarist is retiring at the end of 2023, so that will be it for us. I'll be back looking for a band with the same level of commitment and fun. No idea how that will go after so long, but at least I've got loads of notice.

I'm truly gutted that a band you've put 12 years into is coming to it's end & I hope your next endeavour is just as rewarding as the last one.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Shift work per se shouldn't prevent you from being in a band.

I worked shifts for over 30 years. Not just earlies and lates either; these were earlies, lates and nights in various patterns over the years. For 20 of those years I was in a band which had three other shift workers in it and we made it work. I would often takes a night offers annual leave/swap a shift/re-arrange finish times if we had a gig and the others would do the same. I don't recall one occasion during the bands existence where someone failed to turn up. My job was probably the most unpredictable in that I could be held on duty without notice, but I just planned around it.

 

@Horizontalste - I was working your shift pattern towards the end of my time and it was probably the most awkward, but it's doable. Two earlies, two night four days off gives you options. You might not be able to gig every week, but second early and the first three rest days out of every cycle are usable. Hope you find something.

[Horizontalste]

Cheers @hiram.k.hackenbacker I know you're right.

I love my shifts, my weeks are 8 days long now & have been for a very long time but outside of music & bands I have so much free time &I feel very lucky. My relationships with my kids is amazing because of the time my shift pattern has allowed me to invest.

 

I think when I started this thread I had noticed that I'd started to refrain from "putting myself out there" because there are quite a lot of people in my area like @Supernautwho are massively turned off by bass players who can't commit to the weekly Tues night rehearsals & every weekend gigs & that's fine, it really is.

But, to add another dimension to my perspective I've also committed myself in the past to startups that want to rehearse & gig often but fall apart rather quickly, sometimes before the first gig even & it was never my doing. I regularly met up with four guys every Sunday to rehearse about ten years ago & it went nowhere, but it was great fun & the rehearsal room cost us nothing so I kept going.

 

This topic has become shift work focused & that's great, I'm glad I'm not alone but I still wonder if there are other barriers that are stopping people for going for it, confidence, perceived ability, controlling wives/spouses/partners? 🤣