Simple but good quality synth?

[iamtheelvy]

Hi guys,

thinking of branching out into the world of synths for a few songs. Covering quite a lot of 80’s stuff nowadays and pedals can only cover so much…

 

Don’t want to spend a fortune, but want to look into something decent allowing for a few saved presets. Also, don’t want anything super complicated! What’s recommended?

[PaulThePlug]

80's... Howz about a Keytar?

Saw one in a recent look in Cack Converters in Tunbridge Wells...

Had 4 Basses in there... All Left Paw...

might of all came from the same person, or more likely just a reflection of the strange lot in TW. 😉

Edited May 12, 2022 by PaulThePlug

[iamtheelvy]

2 minutes ago, PaulThePlug said:

Keytar? Saw one in a recent look in Cack Converters in Tunbridge Wells...

Had 4 Basses in there... All Left Paw...

might of all came from the same person, or more likely just a reflection of the strange lot in TW. 😉

I really couldn’t bring myself to take that to rehearsals, let alone gigs…

[iamtheelvy]

Any experiences with the Korg Monologue, or Novation Bass Station? Quite like the small profile.

[Skinnyman]

I started with a Roland Gaia. They’re a bit over-priced new but used ones are better value. Nice and simple to operate, I found it a great tool for learning how to program a synth.

 

It’s been out forever so loads of used ones. Some look down their noses at it but as a simple but powerful first synth I think it’s hard to beat. 
 

I’ve now moved mine on and got a Korg Krome because I wanted a decent arpeggiator and loads of presets (the Roland Juno DS and Korg Kross do a similar job) but I often wish I’d kept hold of the little Gaia for its flexibility and ease of use.

[BigRedX]

If you are going to want to program your own sounds, then something with as many dedicated controls on the front panel is a must, or one with an excellent computer-based programming app. A few things you will want to consider:

 

1. The two octave keyboard on both the Bass Station and the Monologue might be too limiting for some bass lines (especially 80s ones with lots of octaves unless you are prepared to transpose the keyboard to bring all the notes you want within the range of the available keys (if so check that the synth has a transpose function).

 

2. The envelope generator on the Monologue doesn't appear to be a standard ADSR one and there's only one (unless there are more hidden away in parameter access). For duplicating as many 80s synth sounds as possible you will really want two full ADSR envelope generators so that you can assign one to the filter (tone) and another to the amplifier (volume).

 

3. They are both mono synths. That means they can only play one note at a time, and no chords at all. For bass lines this probably won't be a problem, but you may occasionally struggle to replicate the feel of a baseline that has been played on a polysynth where the release of one note overlaps the attack of the next.

Edited May 13, 2022 by BigRedX

[Earbrass]

Another thing to bear in mind is that analog synths (or rather synths with analog oscillators), while being very trendy these days, often need to be powered on for a while before their tuning is stable and some will continue to drift or fail to track properly over a few octaves even then, which might not be convenient in a gigging situation. I had an Arturia minibrute 2S for a while, but got rid because I found the tuning a nightmare, and the sonic sweetspots few and far between.

 

I have owned a fair few synths over the years, including models from Novation, Nord, Dave Smith Instruments, Audiothingies, Erica Synths and Arturia, and the only hardware synth I have kept, and have no plans to get rid of, is a humble Microkorg. These are a bit marmite, with some hating the "toylike" feel, the matrix user interface and the minikeys, but it is actually a very powerful little machine, capable of a huge range of sounds, almost all very usable. You get up to 4 note polyphony, so simple chords or legato basslines are no problem. The minikeys are not the best, but they are velocity sensitive and you get a full 3 octaves in a very compact and lightweight body. I find programming it to be quite straightforward once you get the hang of it, and there is no real menu diving - almost everything is available right from the front panel. The fact that you can still buy them new 20 years after they were first released says a lot. There are plenty around 2nd hand - I picked mine up for under £200.  Not for everyone, but definitely worth considering.

 

There is a huge choice of synths at very reasonable prices these days - I'd say one of the very best of the newer ones is the Arturia Microfreak, if you can live with the weird "touch capacitance (?)" keyboard (not sure I could - maybe not ideal for gigging with). 

 

Given the huge variety out there, you might want to try buying 2nd hand, so that you can move one on and try another till you find the one you gell with. Good luck with your search, and have fun!

Edited May 13, 2022 by Earbrass

[BigRedX]

I have say, that despite having owned a lot of synths with analogue VCOs since the early 80s I've never found any of them to have tuning instabilities and all have come up to tune within a couple of minutes of being powered on. 

 

On the other hand, having owned an EDP Wasp, while I would hope that touch capacitance keyboards have become more reliable in the last 40 years, I wouldn't have another synth with one for live use.

[dub_junkie]

I play bass in an 80s electronic covers band and I have a couple of synths I use with them. One is a Waldorf Streichfett for string synth sounds but my main one is a Novation Xio49 virtual analogue 4 octave synth with 200 presets and on board FX to cover everything else (mainly bass) 

I had two but let one go which I now regret and I’m keeping my eyes out for another)

I really like the sounds from the Xio.

Sounds way better than anything else I’ve come across for anything near to the price (I picked up both my Xio49 synths for under £100)

[iamtheelvy]

6 hours ago, Earbrass said:

Another thing to bear in mind is that analog synths (or rather synths with analog oscillators), while being very trendy these days, often need to be powered on for a while before their tuning is stable and some will continue to drift or fail to track properly over a few octaves even then, which might not be convenient in a gigging situation. I had an Arturia minibrute 2S for a while, but got rid because I found the tuning a nightmare, and the sonic sweetspots few and far between.

 

I have owned a fair few synths over the years, including models from Novation, Nord, Dave Smith Instruments, Audiothingies, Erica Synths and Arturia, and the only hardware synth I have kept, and have no plans to get rid of, is a humble Microkorg. These are a bit marmite, with some hating the "toylike" feel, the matrix user interface and the minikeys, but it is actually a very powerful little machine, capable of a huge range of sounds, almost all very usable. You get up to 4 note polyphony, so simple chords or legato basslines are no problem. The minikeys are not the best, but they are velocity sensitive and you get a full 3 octaves in a very compact and lightweight body. I find programming it to be quite straightforward once you get the hang of it, and there is no real menu diving - almost everything is available right from the front panel. The fact that you can still buy them new 20 years after they were first released says a lot. There are plenty around 2nd hand - I picked mine up for under £200.  Not for everyone, but definitely worth considering.

 

There is a huge choice of synths at very reasonable prices these days - I'd say one of the very best of the newer ones is the Arturia Microfreak, if you can live with the weird "touch capacitance (?)" keyboard (not sure I could - maybe not ideal for gigging with). 

 

Given the huge variety out there, you might want to try buying 2nd hand, so that you can move one one and try another till you find the one you gell with. Good luck with your search, and have fun!

Was going to say, Microkorg was a consideration. Seems a slightly more beginner-user-friendly interface.

[iamtheelvy]

Also, simple chords are fine, and as far as I’d be happy going. Pre-GCSE music lessons were longer ago than I’d care to think about…

[Quatschmacher]

On 12/05/2022 at 20:22, iamtheelvy said:

Any experiences with the Korg Monologue, or Novation Bass Station? Quite like the small profile.

Are you still looking? I have a pristine Monologue for sale that my son has sadly shown no interest in. 

[iamtheelvy]

10 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Are you still looking? I have a pristine Monologue for sale that my son has sadly shown no interest in. 

I’ve been using a Microkorg XL for the best part of the last year. Investigating today into a Moog for sale locally…

[iamtheelvy]

10 hours ago, iamtheelvy said:

I’ve been using a Microkorg XL for the best part of the last year. Investigating today into a Moog for sale locally…

As it happens, was a very good deal. Moog Subsequent 37 in house, and a chunky instruction manual to get through…

[paul_5]

My route would be a controller keyboard and an iPad/laptop to generate the sounds.

 

That way you're not tied to a single block of sounds, and can swap the 'brain' as the material dictates.

[Cairobill]

In my experience the best bang for the buck to get the retro vibe going without buying an old classic is the Behringer Deepmind 12 (about 4-500)

The Deepmind has a bit of menu diving but is a great synth with a Juno-Esque sound and the all important filters and envelope controls on the front.

Cheaper (but you need a controller) would be the Roland DSP clones of the old classic (JU-06 etc) which will sound great in a band context...

 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I use an IK multimedia iRig Keys with an iPad. I have various apps including Model D (MiniMoog), iMS20 (Korg MS20), ODYSSEi (ARP Odessey) & Yonnac Kauldron which is great for funny noises. For polyphonic sounds I use iM1 (Korg M1) & Galileo (Hammond B3 Organ). If you already have a decent iPad (or iPhone) this might be the most cost effective approach.

[BigRedX]

20 hours ago, Cairobill said:

The Deepmind has a bit of menu diving but is a great synth with a Juno-Esque sound and the all important filters and envelope controls on the front.

 

Having spent some time with the Deepmind (our synth player has one) comparing it to the Roland Juno series of synths does it IMO a massive dis-service. Certainly it is capable of Juno type sounds but it's got 2 oscillators and 3 envelope generators so you are by no means limited to the weedy and disappointing sounds of the Junos.

[Cairobill]

31 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Having spent some time with the Deepmind (our synth player has one) comparing it to the Roland Juno series of synths does it IMO a massive dis-service. Certainly it is capable of Juno type sounds but it's got 2 oscillators and 3 envelope generators so you are by no means limited to the weedy and disappointing sounds of the Junos.

100% agree. That was in reference to the need for a synth to cover 80s classics. The Deepmind can do all sorts of other stuff...

 

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, Cairobill said:

100% agree. That was in reference to the need for a synth to cover 80s classics. The Deepmind can do all sorts of other stuff...

 

In that case, pretty much any analogue style polysynth with 2 oscillators and 2 full ADSR envelope generators per voice, VCF capable of going into self oscillation, plus the ability to work as a proper monophonic synth will do the job.

 

No-one making 80s "classics" at the time was using a Juno. And almost no-one bought one out of choice. We bought them because it was the cheapest polysynth on the market and we couldn't afford the synths we really wanted like the Jupiter 8, Oberheim OBXa or Prophet V. Had any of us been lucky enough to score a record deal with an equipment advance, the Juno would have been gone and replaced with something that actually sounded good without needing to be be swamped in chorus effect.

[Cairobill]

@BigRedX Totally agree, but I assume he was in need of a poly. And I've just noticed this is a conversation from almost a year ago.

Like you, I spent time in the trenches with a Juno 106 SMPTE'd up to a Fostex in the 80s

We thought it was a bit rubbish at the time too! I'm a (B)Arp 2600/JX8P man myself nowadays. But for Poly, my 2p contribution is that a Deepmind will do all that 80s stuff for not a lot of spend  (and a whole lot more). An Obie Matrix would edge it slightly but sadly you can't get them for 200 quid anymore. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cairobill

[BigRedX]

32 minutes ago, Cairobill said:

An Obie Matrix would edge it slightly but sadly you can't get them for 200 quid anymore. 

 

If you're prepared to go on the waiting list for the announcement of the next batch an Audiothingies Micromonsta 2 will do pretty much everything that the matrix could for about £250.

 

Me, I'm perfectly happy with the soft synths that come with Logic.

Edited February 13, 2023 by BigRedX

[BigRedX]

If I was going to invest in hardware synthesis again, I'd probably get a second hand Nord Lead, which was the best synth I've ever owned. Unfortunately lots of other people seem to have discovered how good these are, as the second hand prices have increased considerably since I sold mine...

 

I couldn't afford a Juno at the time, but several musicians I knew in the early 80s had them and I was always completely underwhelmed when I had a go on one. I seemed to be nothing more than a 6 voice SH09 which I did own and was used mostly for background sequencer parts and percussive noises controlled by an MC202. Since the Juno lacked CV and gate inputs it couldn't even be used like this. 

 

I won an Akai AX73 in an E&MM competition which had almost identical architecture to the Juno but had the additional disadvantages of an extra octave of keys making it huge and unwieldy (and more so in the flight case it came with) and parameter access programming. I think I stuck with it for a couple of months before I had saved up enough additional money to trade it in for a Casio CZ5000.

Edited February 14, 2023 by BigRedX

[prowla]

The Behringer Model D is a cheap copy of a MiniMoog and the left-right layout of the controls is very logical.

[BigRedX]

14 hours ago, prowla said:

The Behringer Model D is a cheap copy of a MiniMoog and the left-right layout of the controls is very logical.

 

But no programmable memories for your sounds which pretty much rules it our for live use, unless you are going to stick with a single sound for all the songs.