Simple but good quality synth?

[Woodinblack]

I have an Argon 8 - don't use it too much at the moment, amazing sounds though. There is also the cobalt 8 which is the analogue version.

I would probably use it more if it wasn't for the fact that it still doesn't blow the Blofeld out of the water as it should.

[prowla]

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

But no programmable memories for your sounds which pretty much rules it our for live use, unless you are going to stick with a single sound for all the songs.

Yes, that's true.

I guess a MIDI controller could manage the settings.

Alternatively, you could buy several, get a cape, grow your hair and pretend you're Rick Wakeman!

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, prowla said:

I guess a MIDI controller could manage the settings.

 

Unfortunately it can't. If you were able to do this it would have been so trivial for Behringer to add patch memories that they would have done so.

 

For a MIDI controller to be able to do this you would also need to be able to read and write digital values for every knob and switch on the synth. Once you've done that you might as well add the memory to be able to store and recall these values to the synth itself as that is the easy and relatively cheap part compared with the former.

[prowla]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

Unfortunately it can't. If you were able to do this it would have been so trivial for Behringer to add patch memories that they would have done so.

 

For a MIDI controller to be able to do this you would also need to be able to read and write digital values for every knob and switch on the synth. Once you've done that you might as well add the memory to be able to store and recall these values to the synth itself as that is the easy and relatively cheap part compared with the former.

Ah - wasn't sure if you could treat it as a black-box (where the settings via MIDI aren't visible).

It's still a load of fun, though!

[BigRedX]

Having used synths without programmable memories back in the 80s when there were no affordable alternatives, I really couldn't recommend one for live use in this day and age.

 

If you were to use a synth like the Model D live you have basically three options:

 

1. Stick with a single sound (or variations of that sound that can be achieved by tweaking just ONE or TWO controls) for all the songs you are going to use it on.

 

2. Memorise the locations of every single control for each different sound you are going need. This is just about do-able on a simple single oscillator and envelope generator synth like a Roland SH09/SH101; on something much more complicated like the Model D it's not anywhere like as easy.

 

3. Take printed patch sheets on stage with you showing to locations of the controls for each different sound that you need. I did this back in the early 80s and TBH it looked very amateurish although back then there was no alternative unless you had lots of money for synths with patch memories.

 

Bear in mind that options 2 and 3 take time to implement in the middle of the set, and today's audiences may not be quite so forgiving of long inter-song pauses as they were 40 years ago. My band back then had 15-30 second intros to the start of EVERY song to allow us the set up the sound(s) while the song started, and even with the printed patch sheets, human error meant that there was no guarantee that when you pressed the key for the first note of your part you weren't going to be presented with either silence or worse still some massively loud atonal noise, instead of the sound you wanted.

[tauzero]

Soft synth inna box? https://zynthian.org/

[prowla]

On 17/02/2023 at 12:03, BigRedX said:

Having used synths without programmable memories back in the 80s when there were no affordable alternatives, I really couldn't recommend one for live use in this day and age.

 

If you were to use a synth like the Model D live you have basically three options:

 

1. Stick with a single sound (or variations of that sound that can be achieved by tweaking just ONE or TWO controls) for all the songs you are going to use it on.

 

2. Memorise the locations of every single control for each different sound you are going need. This is just about do-able on a simple single oscillator and envelope generator synth like a Roland SH09/SH101; on something much more complicated like the Model D it's not anywhere like as easy.

 

3. Take printed patch sheets on stage with you showing to locations of the controls for each different sound that you need. I did this back in the early 80s and TBH it looked very amateurish although back then there was no alternative unless you had lots of money for synths with patch memories.

 

Bear in mind that options 2 and 3 take time to implement in the middle of the set, and today's audiences may not be quite so forgiving of long inter-song pauses as they were 40 years ago. My band back then had 15-30 second intros to the start of EVERY song to allow us the set up the sound(s) while the song started, and even with the printed patch sheets, human error meant that there was no guarantee that when you pressed the key for the first note of your part you weren't going to be presented with either silence or worse still some massively loud atonal noise, instead of the sound you wanted.

You missed the other option:

 

🙂

[prowla]

On 16/02/2023 at 15:43, BigRedX said:

 

Unfortunately it can't. If you were able to do this it would have been so trivial for Behringer to add patch memories that they would have done so.

 

For a MIDI controller to be able to do this you would also need to be able to read and write digital values for every knob and switch on the synth. Once you've done that you might as well add the memory to be able to store and recall these values to the synth itself as that is the easy and relatively cheap part compared with the former.

It wouldn't need to read them; the Minitaur (and other synths) patches operate independently of the physical controls, so you program and push them from a PC.
(Of course, having motorised controls which shift to match the patch would add a big cost and wouldn't work for the Model D's accurately styled rocker switches.)

[BigRedX]

On 12/03/2023 at 08:52, prowla said:

It wouldn't need to read them; the Minitaur (and other synths) patches operate independently of the physical controls, so you program and push them from a PC.
(Of course, having motorised controls which shift to match the patch would add a big cost and wouldn't work for the Model D's accurately styled rocker switches.)

 

Push them to what? On a traditional analogue synth there is nothing to push these values to as the controls are all potentiometers and switches. In order for these to "read" the MIDI data every single switch and pot would need to be replaced or duplicated by circuitry that can turn digital data into an analogue value that the synth can understand. I suspect that how the Minitaur works and why it is over twice of the Behringer Model D for a synth with a lot less in the way of features. 

[Woodinblack]

32 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

.I suspect that how the Minitaur works and why it is over twice of the Behringer Model D for a synth with a lot less in the way of features. 

 

The reason that the Minitaur is twice the price of the model D is that one is made by Moog and one is made by Behringer.

[prowla]

3 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The reason that the Minitaur is twice the price of the model D is that one is made by Moog and one is made by Behringer.

I think you may be onto something there.

(I have one of each, BTW!)

[Woodinblack]

I would have a minitaur if they hadn't put an arbitrary limit on the top end that it could play. Seems a bit of an odd thing to do.

[Quatschmacher]

On 14/03/2023 at 14:11, Woodinblack said:

I would have a minitaur if they hadn't put an arbitrary limit on the top end that it could play. Seems a bit of an odd thing to do.

It was so that the oscillators could be optimised for bass. If you want full range pitch, get a Sirin. The bottom end is not quite as big but it covers the entire pitch range. 

[JottoSW1]

Got myself an ASM Hydrasynth Explorer for just under £600 from Gak.

Have disappeared into a relearning keyboards rabbit-hole since the last time I logged in here, this is an AMAZING little machine even though it's their bottom of the range cheapest. Remarkably expressive and sounds great via a bias amp bass and laney n410 (tweeter on). Just as well, can't afford a dedicated keyboard combo for a bit.

[iamtheelvy]

The difference a year makes…

[Cavau]

 

 

I recommend Korg minilogue XD. It's versatile, has a vintage vibe, not overly complicated, and offers a good range of presets. Plus, it's affordable considering its features.

 

 😊

 

Edited June 5 by Cavau

[bassatnight]

Have owned several synths in the past, but not for a while. Thinking of picking up a decent all rounder, particular fan of the Juno series from the eighties having owned a 60 and 106 and the newish Juno X looks amazing, the current retail new is £1,400 which is a little more than I ideally want to shell out but I have been offered a fairly mint Jupiter X for £1450, they retail for £2k anyone in the know have any advice, is the Jupiter that much better than the Juno X?
 

Thanks,

Steve.

[BigRedX]

Since all the synth models are virtual and in theory you can load the Jupiter 8 model into the Juno X, sound-wise there should be no difference. However the user interface of the Jupiter X is better since it already has all the controls for the extra oscillators and envelope generators, while on the Juno X they'll be hidden away on "shift" or "page 2" buttons. Also you'll have to pay extra for the Jupiter 8 model. The Jupiter X also has a semi-weighted keyboard which may or may not be a selling point depending on your playing technique.

 

I'm not a fan of the Juno at all. Back in the 80s no-one I knew bought any of the Juno models out of choice, they bought them because they were the cheapest polyphonic synths available. The only good thing about the Juno synth was the chorus which was a absolute necessity as the sounds were thin and weedy without it. What we all wanted was a decent polyphonic synth with 2 oscillations and at least 2 envelope generators per voice. However they were all at least twice the price of the Juno hence its popularity. To me £1400 sounds like a lot of money to pay for a single oscillator and envelope generator per voice synth, especially and virtual one, and if you can get a mint second hand Jupiter X for only £50 more it should be a no-brianer. 

[Skinnyman]

I see that Modal are in administration which is very sad news. 

That said, there may be some good clearance bargains to be had on Argon and Cobalt models…

[BigRedX]

2 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I see that Modal are in administration which is very sad news. 

That said, there may be some good clearance bargains to be had on Argon and Cobalt models…

 

I believe there is some reorganisation going on that will save the company so probably no bargains to be had.

[Skinnyman]

Just now, BigRedX said:

 

I believe there is some reorganisation going on that will save the company so probably no bargains to be had.

I really hope they survive - the Argon is a great machine and their app is brilliant

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Skinnyman said:

I really hope they survive - the Argon is a great machine and their app is brilliant

 

Indeed - the app is an example of how people should write synth apps.

[2pods]

I have a Hydrasynth Explorer, that I'm still to get into.

From what I've discovered so far, it's a lot of synth for very little money.

 

HTH

[xgsjx]

On 29/09/2023 at 08:46, bassatnight said:

Have owned several synths in the past, but not for a while. Thinking of picking up a decent all rounder, particular fan of the Juno series from the eighties having owned a 60 and 106 and the newish Juno X looks amazing, the current retail new is £1,400 which is a little more than I ideally want to shell out but I have been offered a fairly mint Jupiter X for £1450, they retail for £2k anyone in the know have any advice, is the Jupiter that much better than the Juno X?
 

Thanks,

Steve.

I was going to get the Juno X, but the Jupiter X comes with a Juno 106 as well as a Jupiter 8, a JX8P, an SH-101, an XV5080, the RD piano, a vocoder, zencore & the Jupiter X synth engine, so to me was a better deal even at £2300 new. 
I’ve had mine for 3 months & hardly touched the surface of what it can do. 
last night I spent a few hours just creating a synth bass sound that used 2 Jupiter 8s, a JX8P & an SH-101 all layered to make one big killer bass sound. 
£1450 is a bit of a bargain!

[Quatschmacher]

On 15/08/2023 at 18:19, iamtheelvy said:

The difference a year makes…

It gets worse, trust me. 😆