woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Hey folks, I had an issue last night at a venue and want to check if I’m going mental. I use a Neural DSP Quad Cortex. My chain literally just goes bass - QC - XLR1 and XLR2. We use IEMs so I don’t need an amp. Logically, this makes perfect sense for me. I have one XLR for clean tone, and one XLR for dirt. In the practice room, this has worked well. But at a gig venue last night the sound guy looked at me like I had two heads and forced me to use an amp. By that I was forced to run a cable from my QC to the DI into a parallel input to the bass head with a cab which was mic’d. Now, my settings does feature cabs and mics. So my stage sound was more boomy than I wanted but had to accept it. Listening to videos - this doesn’t seem to have been used much, if at all, FOH. Is it normal for 2 XLRs on bass to cause concern? The dude used the phrase “I have an expensive PA and don’t want to blow it up”. Which I can’t fathom as I’m literally just giving you a DI. Like, loads of bands are using full modellers nowadays. Is there a difference I’m missing between distorted bass and distorted guitar? My cleans/lows don’t get distorted so I wouldn’t imagine that an issue? Also, for info my guitarist also runs a QC in stereo. And runs the exact same output as me - 2 x XLR, no amps. The sound guy was alright with this but totally made it awkward for me. The IEMs didn’t work either for us so we ended up using monitors with the click and synth through the ears (we control this). We suspect the cabling in the venue at fault as we tested this morning and it was fine. Should I ditch the amp models and sounds that I’ve setup and use an amp? Is my sound actually that complex from a sound guy perspective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 In all the venues I've seen and done sound for, a pair of Xlr's from any instrument would be the dream scenario. Just plug 'em into the channel strips, correct for gain and balance in the mix and 'Bingo'..! I've yet to come across a PA that a bass could harm, if fed in this way. From the rest of your 'issues', I'd suggest that you were unlucky in getting a below-par sound guy, s'all. Change nothing. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Is the sound quality too bassy/boomy in other venues / rehearsal room / etc.? If the bass is too boomy, maybe look at your pickup height rather than pulling your rig apart. Drop the pickup height on the bass side, maybe raise it a little on the treble side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: In all the venues I've seen and done sound for, a pair of Xlr's from any instrument would be the dream scenario. Just plug 'em into the channel strips, correct for gain and balance in the mix and 'Bingo'..! I've yet to come across a PA that a bass could harm, if fed in this way. From the rest of your 'issues', I'd suggest that you were unlucky in getting a below-par sound guy, s'all. Change nothing. I had thought that any sound guy would be super happy to get handed two XLRs. The aim was to make life easy for me and the sound guys! 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Skybone said: Is the sound quality too bassy/boomy in other venues / rehearsal room / etc.? If the bass is too boomy, maybe look at your pickup height rather than pulling your rig apart. Drop the pickup height on the bass side, maybe raise it a little on the treble side. Nah, in practice room it’s perfect - but we just use IEMs. I think it was just a bit more rough on stage because it was going through my QC amps, into the DI then into the house markbass and ampeg 8x10 (mic’d). So my DI tone was actually fine but the FOH mic tone would have been weird but I couldn’t hear any mud on the videos- so I guess he didn’t use much, if any. Edited May 21, 2022 by woodyratm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb625 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 As much as I don't really like to criticise the sound operators, this one sounds like they don't really know what they're doing. A pair of xlr's into the desk sounds ideal to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 I don't get it - when we play they don't force the keyboard player to use an amp, just use a DI. What's the difference? TWO DIs? Is that the objection? Me = confused 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, neepheid said: I don't get it - when we play they don't force the keyboard player to use an amp, just use a DI. What's the difference? TWO DIs? Is that the objection? Me = confused Honestly, you and me both. He claimed it would sound crap FOH without the cab mic’d and then started talking about how it would blow his super expensive PA using two DIs. I’ve never been more confused before a gig to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, woodyratm said: Honestly, you and me both. He claimed it would sound crap FOH without the cab mic’d and then started talking about how it would blow his super expensive PA using two DIs. I’ve never been more confused before a gig to be honest. Pish. I'm no sound engineer but even I know they'd go into separate channels, each with their own gain and level controls. "Blow the PA", bwahahaha 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, neepheid said: Pish. I'm no sound engineer but even I know they'd go into separate channels, each with their own gain and level controls. "Blow the PA", bwahahaha Exactly! I was like “so what’s the difference between a modelled high gain amp vs a modelled heavily fuzzed bass sound?!” Curiously, I think you’re from my neck of the woods so you might be surprised at the venue in question 😂 Edited May 21, 2022 by woodyratm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, woodyratm said: Exactly! I was like “so what’s the difference between a modelled high gain amp vs a heavily fuzzed bass sound?!” Curiously, I think you’re from my neck of the woods so you might be surprised at the venue in question 😂 I think I am from your neck of the woods, I'm pretty sure I recognise the venue from your pic in the "how was you gig last night" thread and honestly my level of surprise would be determined by who was doing the sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulThePlug Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 2x XLR... Clean and Dirty... So a blend or do you switch between one and tother? If switched, whats the reason for 2, can you not switch on one line? - just want to educate myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, PaulThePlug said: 2x XLR... Clean and Dirty... So a blend or do you switch between one and tother? If switched, whats the reason for 2, can you not switch on one line? - just want to educate myself... The clean runs all the time. In my band, I perform the role of bassist and rhythm guitar technically. So that low end is needed to remain when heavy fuzz is used. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilebodgers Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, woodyratm said: Honestly, you and me both. He claimed it would sound crap FOH without the cab mic’d and then started talking about how it would blow his super expensive PA using two DIs. I’ve never been more confused before a gig to be honest. It’s just clueless nonsense. Any tech worth their salt would have a high-pass filter and a compressor/limiter on those channels to protect the system if they were concerned about what might be sent. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafbass02 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Sounds like they didn’t understand the concept of a bass doing more than plonking along quietly at the back and panicked 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, gafbass02 said: Sounds like they didn’t understand the concept of a bass doing more than plonking along quietly at the back and panicked I think so. Frustratingly - we told the dude in advance what our setup was and what we needed. Nice that I wasn’t doing something that silly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, gafbass02 said: Sounds like they didn’t understand the concept of a bass doing more than plonking along quietly at the back and panicked Keys are very capable of putting out extreme frequencies at extreme levels, yet pass through many PA systems with no issues, when dealt with correctly. A bass causes no 'special' issues for any PA that can handle keys. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafbass02 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 They are indeed. It’s all a bit baffling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb625 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 3 hours ago, woodyratm said: Honestly, you and me both. He claimed it would sound crap FOH without the cab mic’d and then started talking about how it would blow his super expensive PA using two DIs. I’ve never been more confused before a gig to be honest. It sounds like he doesn't understand the function of the QC and modelling in general. Best just to take a breath, chalk it up to experience and run the on-stage amp as loud as is physically possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Wonder if he didn’t have enough vacant channels on his mixer to accommodate 2 DI’s but didn’t want to look incompetent? Can’t understand any other reason why he was being so awkward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 hour ago, casapete said: Wonder if he didn’t have enough vacant channels on his mixer to accommodate 2 DI’s but didn’t want to look incompetent? Can’t understand any other reason why he was being so awkward. What..? Shirley not..! Was it not a 'super expensive PA'..? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Dad3353 said: What..? Shirley not..! Was it not a 'super expensive PA'..? Just an ‘expensive PA ‘ I think Douglas. Had he owned the ‘super’ version he may have had that spare channel? 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 19 hours ago, woodyratm said: Nah, in practice room it’s perfect - but we just use IEMs. I think it was just a bit more rough on stage because it was going through my QC amps, into the DI then into the house markbass and ampeg 8x10 (mic’d). So my DI tone was actually fine but the FOH mic tone would have been weird but I couldn’t hear any mud on the videos- so I guess he didn’t use much, if any. Sometimes you get, erm... 'interesting' sound people (I won't use the word engineers here). You just got one of those, I suspect, and my experience is that it's almost always useless to try to change their ways so when I encounter them I just shrug, smile, and try my best. Live to gig another day! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 Our quiatrist says I can't run bass through the PA. I don't know where they get the idea it'll blow speakers. Quite happy to mic the bass drum. So guess it's a lack of understanding. Maybe has had a bad experience in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, TimR said: Our quiatrist says I can't run bass through the PA. I don't know where they get the idea it'll blow speakers. Quite happy to mic the bass drum. So guess it's a lack of understanding. Maybe has had a bad experience in the past. Oddest thing though - he had me go into a DI which had a parallel out to onstage amp that was mic’d. Kept saying it would sound terrible with just my QC. I don’t think he understood that my amps and cabs were coming from the QC. I’m going to create emergency patches with no amps as a just in case measure, I’m also going to sum the two channels to one. Single cable might not scare the crap outta him! Edited May 22, 2022 by woodyratm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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