Neural Quad Cortex

[BigRedX]

On 18/06/2024 at 13:11, Kev said:

I'm not sure you're fully understanding what a capture is and how it works, as it really isn't anything like a sampler?  You're capturing a device set up in a certain way, the Quad Cortex learns how to create that sound, and the capture reacts to your playing in the same way the real thing would, with embedded gain controls and 3 band EQ controls (with any number of effect blocks before and after) that are pretty functional in moderation.  I can't imagine ever needing to capture a device in so many different settings that it becomes cumbersome. How often do you dramatically change pedal settings?  Perhaps i'm alone with this, but I very rarely mess once I've found a particular sound I like, and the QC is more than capable of doing slight adjustments when needed.

 

Can you give a more specific example of a particular device you want to capture, and how you may wish to change this sound in the future?

 

Maybe I didn't explain it properly , but AFAICS a "capture" is still just a single state of the captured device with the controls at fixed positions at the moment of capture. It's all very well having gain and 3 band EQ embedded into that capture, but are these fixed in their actions or can they be altered to accurately duplicate any gain and EQ controls that might be on the captured device?

 

I suspect that I'm not the sort of user this facility is aimed at. I've just had a look at what is "built-in" to my modelling device (Helix) and there are 43 distortion "pedals" plus over 100 more distortion/gain effects built in the various amp models. That's more than enough for me. If I can't find the sounds that I want from these options then there is something very wrong with me. I also don't believe that only one device can produce the perfect sound for me, and I gave up "chasing sounds" in the early 80s. Mostly when I change my gear it's because the new version does what I want quicker or is in a smaller/lighter form factor, or integrates better with the other gear the band uses. If I can get exactly the same sounds out of the new device, that's great, but if I can't then I'm sure that I will be able to find something that does the same job in the context of the band sound, and that's the important thing for me, not how close it sounds to a particular old device.

Edited June 19 by BigRedX

[MrDinsdale]

Well, I just plugged it in, and straight out of the box it sounded great on guitar, much better stock sounds than any of the other modellers I've tried.

I'll hopefully get some time to get properly stuck in and make some presets and explore some of the community presets and captures later on 🙌 First impressions are solid though.

[MrDinsdale]

26 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Maybe I didn't explain it properly , but AFAICS a "capture" is still just a single state of the captured device with the controls at fixed positions at the moment of capture. It's all very well having gain and 3 band EQ embedded into that capture, but are these fixed in their actions or can they be altered to accurately duplicate any gain and EQ controls that might be on the captured device?

 

I suspect that I'm not the sort of user this facility is aimed at. I've just had a look at what is "built-in" to my modelling device (Helix) and there are 43 distortion "pedals" plus over 100 more distortion/gain effects built in the various amp models. That's more than enough for me. If I can find the sounds that I want from these options then there is something very wrong with me. I also don't believe that only one device can produce the perfect sound for me, and I gave up "chasing sounds" in the early 80s. Mostly when I change my gear it's because the new version does what I want quicker or is in a smaller/lighter form factor, or integrates better with the other gear the band uses. If I can get exactly the same sounds out of the new device, that's great, but if I can't then I'm sure that I will be able to find something that does the same job in the context of the band sound, and that's the important thing for me, not how close it sounds to a particular old device.

If you have no interest in replicating the sound of any specific effects or amps and are completely happy with the built-in effects on your current modeller, I'm not really sure what you were hoping it would give you?

I've spoken to plenty of people who were perfectly happy with the sounds they were getting from their modeller of choice. I really didn't get there with the GT1000 or HX, certainly nothing that came close to my pedals, so capturing them is a perfect way to scale down for me with minimal sacrifice.

[Kev]

39 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Maybe I didn't explain it properly , but AFAICS a "capture" is still just a single state of the captured device with the controls at fixed positions at the moment of capture. It's all very well having gain and 3 band EQ embedded into that capture, but are these fixed in their actions or can they be altered to accurately duplicate any gain and EQ controls that might be on the captured device?

 

I suspect that I'm not the sort of user this facility is aimed at. I've just had a look at what is "built-in" to my modelling device (Helix) and there are 43 distortion "pedals" plus over 100 more distortion/gain effects built in the various amp models. That's more than enough for me. If I can find the sounds that I want from these options then there is something very wrong with me. I also don't believe that only one device can produce the perfect sound for me, and I gave up "chasing sounds" in the early 80s. Mostly when I change my gear it's because the new version does what I want quicker or is in a smaller/lighter form factor, or integrates better with the other gear the band uses. If I can get exactly the same sounds out of the new device, that's great, but if I can't then I'm sure that I will be able to find something that does the same job in the context of the band sound, and that's the important thing for me, not how close it sounds to a particular old device.

 

Yes that is right, the gain control is, as I understand it, simply raising and lowering the input signal going into the capture, and the 3 band EQ is at fixed frequencies, at least for the time being.  I envisage that will change in a future development as the tech is all there.  Last night I actually did some captures of a Darkglass Alpha Omega pedal, went a little overboard and did 16 altogether covering various switch positions and gain/mod positions, captures are perfect, and I'm fairly confident now that I can get any useable sound that pedal is capable of getting through a mix of using one of those captures and other bits and bobs on the QC as appropriate.  A £330 pedal cloned just like that, would only take 4 or 5 pedals captured like that and the value of the QC is paid for!

 

But that aside, the QC of course has a range of full drive/fuzz models, guitar and bass, and loads of amps to play with as well. Not as much as the Helix of course, but relatively speaking this is still a new product and ever expanding.  I can't imagine ever hearing or wanting a drive sound and not being able to recreate it on the QC by one way or another.  Its the other stuff the QC needs to improve at, modulations, delays, anything remotely synthy etc.

[MrDinsdale]

I just downloaded a few presets. It was great to find all the captures and presets I'd found while waiting for it to be delivered waiting for me.

I've had an hour on it:

• I absolutely love their Hiwatt 103 bass amp model, it sounds excellent.
• The interface is super intuitive, haven't read the manual yet and haven't hit any issues.
• After a quick play with the drives, they seem pretty decent so far and even enjoy the DG drives.
• Cab simulations seem solid.
• Compressors seem passable, better than HX but not as good as GT1000 IMO. I'll be keeping the Cali76.
• Set up Cortex Control on my Mac.
• I managed to do a few captures of my Science Mother preamp pedal. It's so easy, and I'd say they're about 98% there but the real test will be how they handle being pushed.

All in all, a pretty impressive amount was achieved within a short space of time! Excited to really get stuck in!

[Killerfridge]

5 hours ago, MrDinsdale said:

I just downloaded a few presets. It was great to find all the captures and presets I'd found while waiting for it to be delivered waiting for me.

I've had an hour on it:

• I absolutely love their Hiwatt 103 bass amp model, it sounds excellent.
• The interface is super intuitive, haven't read the manual yet and haven't hit any issues.
• After a quick play with the drives, they seem pretty decent so far and even enjoy the DG drives.
• Cab simulations seem solid.
• Compressors seem passable, better than HX but not as good as GT1000 IMO. I'll be keeping the Cali76.
• Set up Cortex Control on my Mac.
• I managed to do a few captures of my Science Mother preamp pedal. It's so easy, and I'd say they're about 98% there but the real test will be how they handle being pushed.

All in all, a pretty impressive amount was achieved within a short space of time! Excited to really get stuck in!

Yeah the one thing I've not been 100% happy with were the compressors, but that was easy enough to fix on the pedal board

 

The more you play with it, the more little tricks you'll find, I'm still finding new things with mine a year later (and with the new update bringing side chaining, I'm sure I'll find more)

[MrDinsdale]

1 hour ago, Killerfridge said:

Yeah the one thing I've not been 100% happy with were the compressors, but that was easy enough to fix on the pedal board

 

The more you play with it, the more little tricks you'll find, I'm still finding new things with mine a year later (and with the new update bringing side chaining, I'm sure I'll find more)

Aye chaining should be good.

 

There's definitely little things I'm noticing that seems crazy not to have in there, like having preset input levels for different instruments. Nothing seems like a major issue so far, and it is all easy to work around.

 

I'm really surprised how good the amp models sound, particularly Hiwatt. I'm not surprised. I like it as the Science Mother is based on a Hiwatt, which I also love.

 

Had another hour to play around and got a nice basic guitar and bass rig going. It sounds excellent and is already gonna resolve a few recording issues I was having with my 2i2 and reamping etc. 

[MrDinsdale]

Well, I'm having a minor crisis as I think I liked the Hiwatt amp model more than the SLOmk3, which was my holy grail of preamps. Gonna have to do more AB comparisons, but it's forces me to re-evaluate and possibly have a switch up of what goes on the board with the QC. 

[attackbass]

I love my Quad Cortex, the ease of use is what really sells it to me. I do wish some of the effects like the octave and bass wah were better but I feel this will come in time and I'm looking forward to some of the new features that will be coming.

 

I feel guilty about not using it to it's full potential, especially when I see some people's presets and I've only ever done one capture.... I'm actually running my sansamp "English Muffy" preamp in the effects loop as my main preamp now, no speaker sim from the Quad either, although they sound amazing and much better than anything Darkglass put out, just wish there were more cabs!

 

I think for preamps for live use anyway I prefer to have hands on control for tweaking rather than using captures. I tend to use captures of things like the noble or similar devices that just add a certain colour or boost.

 

It's great for doing signal path stuff which was once only confined to studio situations or very elaborate set ups! 

[WinterMute]

There are some great IR's to use with the IR Loader, I use the celestion 12" IR a lot, although the Darkglass 2x12 model is great.

 

There are some excellent IR collections out there if you go looking, some really nice 8x10 Its that are very effective.

 

I agree that the amp/cab list for bass needs some love though.

[attackbass]

1 hour ago, WinterMute said:

There are some great IR's to use with the IR Loader, I use the celestion 12" IR a lot, although the Darkglass 2x12 model is great.

 

There are some excellent IR collections out there if you go looking, some really nice 8x10 Its that are very effective.

 

I agree that the amp/cab list for bass needs some love though.

 Yeah, I have tried the celestion in the past and they do sound good!

 

I just find I don't need them as well as the sansamp emulation..

 

Being able to change mics and the position us bloody great on the Quad!

 

Wish they would make some more cabs for it, preferable a Hartke HD410 or HL410 as I love those cabs!

 

 

[Killerfridge]

15 hours ago, attackbass said:

 Yeah, I have tried the celestion in the past and they do sound good!

 

I just find I don't need them as well as the sansamp emulation..

 

Being able to change mics and the position us bloody great on the Quad!

 

Wish they would make some more cabs for it, preferable a Hartke HD410 or HL410 as I love those cabs!

 

 

I think I have an IR for either one of those Hartkes lying around somewhere...

[Chrishi_J]

Hartke for Bass is like flour for seasoning 🤣

[acroxixo]

I have this IR Hartke XL410

I don’t know if I’m sending this the right way 😆

Edited June 21 by acroxixo

[attackbass]

2 hours ago, Chrishi_J said:

Hartke for Bass is like flour for seasoning 🤣

 

Ha. Each to their own, I love the gear.

 

 

 

 

[attackbass]

2 hours ago, acroxixo said:

I have this IR Hartke XL410

I don’t know if I’m sending this the right way 😆

 

Haha not sure either!! 😅 

[attackbass]

3 hours ago, Killerfridge said:

I think I have an IR for either one of those Hartkes lying around somewhere...

Think I'm going to borrow a md421 and capture it next week. Got a free day before heading off to play Glastonbury so would be nice to have it going to FOH and the rest of the band in the monitors, so its a consistent sound theyre used to hearing.. Using your own gear is pretty tricky there due to the size of the site and transport is restricted to people carriers, so will probably end up with an Ampeg of some sort.

[Kev]

2 hours ago, acroxixo said:

I have this IR Hartke XL410

I don’t know if I’m sending this the right way 😆

 

Unorthodox way of sharing an IR, but can confirm it works!  

[MrDinsdale]

 

I've been having a play with running some drives into the QC fx loop (before the Science Mother).

 

Most of these can easily be swapped for captures, I've already got a couple captured reasonably well. The Black Math is a spluttery monster of a fuzz and probably won't capture well. Is anyone using a fuzz in the fx loop or up front of the QC?

 

I've dipped the send level to -4.5db for unity gain, which made the pedals instantly respond in a more predictable way.

[MrDinsdale]

So far, though, the Black Math and Cali76 are the 2 pedals I could replicate on the device via captures or onboard models. This is a first for me. I never got close on a GT1000/HX no matter how much EQ and parallel processing I tried.

[nazzer]

It is with a heavy heart that I have decided to sell my QC along with a Pedaltrain Metro 20 set up to mount the QC and a Ciocks DC7 underneath. Love this unit and I am a real fan of it, but I'm just not playing out anymore and it was sitting on my floor unused.

 

See the marketplace if you are interested or drop me a message.

[Killerfridge]

2 hours ago, MrDinsdale said:

So far, though, the Black Math and Cali76 are the 2 pedals I could replicate on the device via captures or onboard models. This is a first for me. I never got close on a GT1000/HX no matter how much EQ and parallel processing I tried.

Interesting, how have you got a decent Cali76 replication?

[Kev]

3 hours ago, MrDinsdale said:

 

I've been having a play with running some drives into the QC fx loop (before the Science Mother).

 

Most of these can easily be swapped for captures, I've already got a couple captured reasonably well. The Black Math is a spluttery monster of a fuzz and probably won't capture well. Is anyone using a fuzz in the fx loop or up front of the QC?

 

I've dipped the send level to -4.5db for unity gain, which made the pedals instantly respond in a more predictable way.

It's a quite odd bug that Neural have sort of acknowledged and implied it'll be "fixed" but this goes back many, many updates, but yes, the send gain for the loops needs to be reduced by about 4.5db for unity, and I think technically the return also needs to come down 0.1db I think someone detected 😅

[MrDinsdale]

2 hours ago, Killerfridge said:

Interesting, how have you got a decent Cali76 replication?

Sorry typo, I meant the Cali76 and Black Math are the 2 I couldn't replicate 😂

[MrDinsdale]

Pushed some captures up of my Shiftline Olympic mk3 preamp.

 

Been playing with these quite a bit and am pretty happy with them. They're virtually indistinguishable from the real thing and take drives really nicely.

 

https://cloud.neuraldsp.com/cloud/u/MrDinsdale/neural_capture

 

I particularly like the "SLO - Clank - Mid" capture. It has the top-end boost engaged and a little hair, which sounds great with a pick.