Twiggy - An EBB5 bass prototype

[SamIAm]

5 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Allen-key-less string retainers on my bass, not headless but kinda … 

anyway - I’m not sure how useful that is to the thread but it will suscribe me to updates so that’s good!

Ooooo ... those look really cool!!

How do they work?

 

S'manth x

[SamIAm]

19 hours ago, Geek99 said:

I would like to say that the fact that we have ladies on here discussing technical stuff is a good thing (tm). No intention to be patronising @Smanth, I’m the father of two girls and I’ve never shied from showing them how to do stuff so they can do it for themselves 

 

there’s more to bass than just groove and how to play “rhythm stick”; though it’s a fine starting point. Here endeth the lesson 

Just one thing @Geek99

🤣

S'manth x

[LukeFRC]

8 minutes ago, Smanth said:

Ooooo ... those look really cool!!

How do they work?

 

S'manth x

I’ve not changed the strings on mine yet… but 

 

 

[SamIAm]

6 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

OK - I have a bit more time to explain where I'm coming from in terms of the double ball ends.  Leastways, that's what I was going to do.

 

Until I thought about it 

 

I'm sure most folks are ahead of me on this, but have a rest while the old fella catches up

 

If you really want to use double ball ends** :

 

- It's only the saddles that need to be multi-scale.

- You could use standard headless tuners in or on a standard block 

- Fix that at the very back and square to the string runs

- Take the saddles out

- Set up individual floating saddles or a custom saddle block (3D printed with fret inserts...think Hofner Violin Bass "Extreme") incorporating the multi-scale

 

 

Then the string runs are equal length and double ball ends can be used with same length strings (bear in mind, they will still probably be customs because of their length).

 

 

 

**When I did @Jus Lukin's headless wonder, I timed how long it took me to fully string, including cutting to length, a new set of strings on the Nova system and bring them all up to pitch...

 

...2 minutes.  Just sayin'

Yes, yes yes!  I am groked!

I cannot put it in words well, but my vision will hopefully be clearer when I get the CAD model updated with tuners.  COVID finally caught me on Sat (as well as 3 other band members, wonder where we got it!) and I've been feeling well rough but I shall redouble my effort to get it done.  In my mind's eye Flo appears as a thing of elegant simplicity.

I really like your idea about the bridge ... using fret inserts is an amazing suggestion.  Easy enough for me to try and it may open the road for me to use a home grown piezo system.  One thing I really liked about the UBASS was it's more upright tone, I'd love to be able to mix/blend the magnetic pups with a piezo pickup (Or rather with 5 individual piezo pickups). Might it be feasible to intonate by physically sliding the saddles up/down the body, relying on the pressure of the strings to hold them in the correct position?  If I 3D printed them I can have them any shape I like and can print them in whatever height I want to adjust bridge action (I can get down to layer resolutions of 0.07mm on my 3D printer) 🤔

 

(OK S'manth ... less waffling and more CAD modelling!)

 

S'manth x

 

[SamIAm]

25 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I’ve not changed the strings on mine yet… but 

 

 

 

I have no words ... that is amazing!

 

(S'manth furiously runs through the steps needed to 3D print a prototype of that system using a 2x4 fretless bass)

 

S'manth x

[Jabba_the_gut]

This is what I was trying to explain earlier regarding using standard double ball end strings for a multiscale. Not sure how string tension would be affected or what scale lengths you could get from this but it was just a thought.

 

Both drawings have strings of the same length

As you will also see, drawings are not my forte!

[Jabba_the_gut]

57 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I’ve not changed the strings on mine yet… but 

 

 

Just love the design of LeFay bridges

[SamIAm]

7 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

This is what I was trying to explain earlier regarding using standard double ball end strings for a multiscale. Not sure how string tension would be affected or what scale lengths you could get from this but it was just a thought.

 

Both drawings have strings of the same length

As you will also see, drawings are not my forte!

Totally the top one for Flo.

 

The only difference is that between the bridge/saddle and the tuners I've thrown in the pulleys which allows me to move the tuner to the back of the bass.

This mean that the total length of Flo will be B<->H instead of A<->H.

 

S'manth x

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, Smanth said:

Just one thing @Geek99

🤣

S'manth x

That looks like locals from my town 

[Andyjr1515]

51 minutes ago, Smanth said:

Might it be feasible to intonate by physically sliding the saddles up/down the body, relying on the pressure of the strings to hold them in the correct position? 

Yes - that's how jazz guitar bridges are and even Paul McCartney's Hofner violin bass is.  You literally intonate them by sliding the bridge across the top.  

[Andyjr1515]

9 minutes ago, Smanth said:

The only difference is that between the bridge/saddle and the tuners I've thrown in the pulleys which allows me to move the tuner to the back of the bass.

I confess, I haven't got my head around the pulleys yet

 

[Andyjr1515]

26 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

This is what I was trying to explain earlier regarding using standard double ball end strings for a multiscale. Not sure how string tension would be affected or what scale lengths you could get from this but it was just a thought.

 

Both drawings have strings of the same length

As you will also see, drawings are not my forte!

Yes, Jez.  You were way ahead of the poor old fella wheezing behind  

[SamIAm]

2 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I confess, I haven't got my head around the pulleys yet

 

It will all become clear ... I see two extremes

Wow ... that's innovative S'manth, are you a witch?

 

or

 

Why no one in their right mind would do such a thing!

 

S'manth x

[Andyjr1515]

30 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Not sure how string tension would be affected

I think I'm right that the string tension to tune to a particular note for the same scale length is the same, regardless of the extra string behind the bridge or in front of the nut.  So your concept wouldn't affect the string tension.  It's a neat solution whether or not double ball ends were used.

[SamIAm]

And just before I dive into fabrication mode ...

 

Ball ends are not ball ends.  Are all/most bass strings like this?

 

Imagine the brass collet embedded into the headstock ...

 

with a knurled head bolt (like this) you could fix these without an Allen key.  Suddenly the idea of a double ball end string seems more appealing ...

 

S'manth x

Edited June 6, 2022 by Smanth

[Andyjr1515]

So, pulleys at the very back, strings loop behind the back and double back on themselves and the tuner block faces the other way to normal?  Hmmm...it doesn't even need to be pulleys - it could be brass channels...

 

Blimey - your ideas are even crazier than mine...and most folks think mine are completely bonkers.

 

Love it 

[Andyjr1515]

On 05/06/2022 at 15:58, Jabba_the_gut said:

Essentially the strings are all the same length but the nut would be angled and individual saddles used to give the required string lengths (if this makes sense).

Yes - that is indeed exactly what you said and yes - it did make sense 

[Geek99]

30 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

That looks like locals from my town 

Freakish looks, body armour and heavily armed… don’t  say much … yep, it was filmed here, on a quiet day 

[SamIAm]

8 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

So, pulleys at the very back, strings loop behind the back and double back on themselves and the tuner block faces the other way to normal?  Hmmm...it doesn't even need to be pulleys - it could be brass channels...

 

Blimey - your ideas are even crazier than mine...and most folks think mine are completely bonkers.

 

Love it 

Thinking outside the box brought me dividends in my IT career (not so much in nursing lol).

 

Brass channels would be easier, but I want to avoid introducing any friction that might lead to (googles for the correct term) backlash in the tuning system.

 

S'manth x

[Frank Blank]

From my bath chair parked in the orangery, I would just like to take this opportunity to raise a glass and say thank Bog for these technically-minded artisans working all this stuff out with slide-rules and such and crafting beautiful instruments so know-nothing drunkards like me don't have to dirty our hands in a workshop or wherever you can-do building types do your stuff. So cheers *waves a brandy in the air*

[3below]

The brass collet idea looks pretty nifty, but it got me thinking about another solution (inspired by my 1970s Kramer aluminium neck bass).

 

 

Construct a small flat plate of appropriate spacing / size for the headstock with the keyholes / slots that the ball ends slot into.  No moving parts to drop and lose.  I have never got the hang of (or had the inclination to) draw in CAD etc so you will have to imagine what I am getting at

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Just love the design of LeFay bridges

Tuning amazing. Saddle height ok. Am not looking forward to needing to change intonation. Or learn to use those bollard things to be honest! 

[Richard R]

13 hours ago, Smanth said:

Thinking outside the box brought me dividends in my IT career (not so much in nursing lol).

😱

[SamIAm]

14 minutes ago, Richard R said:

😱

Oh dear ... to put your screaming face at ease (I hope) ... in my experience (ymmv)

IT: decades old; depending on application you can try new stuff and if it doesn't work, try something else (Not so much with things like fly by wire or life critical systems!); Innovation can be rapid and welcome.  You can mess with people's tech. I really enjoy IT.

 

Nursing (Critical Care): centuries old; think outside the box ... hmmm ... OK but don't act!  Discuss it, get it vetted by multiple layers/disciplines, trialed, studied, etc (basically do it by the book); Make sure it is going to work as you cannot get do-overs. Innovation is slow.  When you consider that a critical care nurse is responsible for their patient's well being and are often performing such separate activities as basic care, monitoring & responding to changes, ventilation management, sedation management (sometimes with paralytic agents), renal dialysis and a whole bunch of other stuff (If you're interested you can check out some New to ITU sheets I wrote for nurses coming to critical care to help during covid) You cannot mess with people's lives or wellbeing. I absolutely love nursing, it feeds my heart!  (Sadly, my bank account not so much!)

 

It took me a while to realise why, despite the fact that there is nothing so rewarding for me as to help my patients and their families (even when this is sadly only to help make bad things less bad) it does not feed the creative, lets try this and if it doesn't work try something else side of me that IT (and other maker type stuff) provides.

 

S'manth x

[SamIAm]

and so it begins

 

Twiggy - a 2x4 proof of concept

 

 

The right angle brackets are winging their way to me from Amazon as I type.

 

S'manth x

Edited June 7, 2022 by Smanth
there/their typo ... d'oh!