Bass VI Appreciation Society (and other short scale 6 string basses of a similar concept)

[Baloney Balderdash]

10 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Yes it could, but the pickup type and positioning say that first and foremost it's been designed as a "guitar". Also as I said, I suspect that the bridge may need modification to be able to fit the heavier gauges of Bass VI strings.

 

IMO there's more to a Bass VI than taking a guitar and sticking a 30" scale neck on it.

I don't agree.

 

I had a 28 5/8" scale 4 string bass, made out of Warmoth Baritone parts, and the Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker pickup in the far neck position sounded absolutely beautiful soloed, and very much like a Bass VI (really regret being stupid enough to sell it at some point).

 

You make it sound like it's an objective absolute truth.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[msb]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

How good is a 30" Baritone tuned A-A on strummed first position chords?

 

I used to have a 28" tuned B-B that was great and I loved the low sound/tuning, but all the Bass VIs I've owned/tried have been useless for anything more than 2 notes, or such high register that I might as well play the part on an ordinary guitar.

I find first position chords are fine on the Gretsch (A-A) , they certainly get muddy on the Bass VI. I’ve met some online that tune Gretschs G-G (metal heads) but their tone is seriously distorted from the get go.

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, stewblack said:

Something to make sure of before you order this Harley Benton JR-Baritone is whether it is 30" scale as the spec list says (both on Thomann's and Harley Benton's own homepage (762mm = 30")), or 27" scale as the description for this instrument on Harley Benton's own homepage says (exact same page as the spec list with conflicting information) : https://harleybenton.com/product/ja-baritone/#

 

My guess though is that it would be the spec list that got it right, and that it indeed is 30" scale.

 

It is also listed under the Vintage series of instruments, even if it clearly says Classic on the headstock in the pictures of it : https://harleybenton.com/electric-guitars/vintage-series/ , and to add to the confusion their JA regular guitar models are indeed part of their Vintage series.

 

Not the only instrument on Harley Benton's homepage with conflicting information between their description and the spec list of it, a bit odd and frankly rather annoying and confusing.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[stewblack]

Well I can't join in the debate - I don't even know the difference between a baritone and a guitar bass. 

Until today I didn't even know there was one!

[Baloney Balderdash]

Sorry for the spam but my question to Harley Benton about the conflicting information about the body and fretboard wood of the Harley Benton GuitarBass on their own homepage was finally answered by Harley Benton.

 

The description on Harley Benton's homepage claimed it had a Nato wood body and a Macassar Ebony fretboad, while the spec list on the very same page claimed it had a Basswood body and a Roseacer (thermally treated, that is somehow bakes or roasted, Maple) fretboard.

 

However my GuitarBass was unusually heavy, certainly a lot heavier than it would have been with a Basswood body, so that made the Nato wood, which is an extremely heavy wood type, seem plausible, but the grain of the fretboard certainly didn't look like neither Maple or Ebony, and Ebony further more seemed unlikely at the price point of this instrument.

 

Well, so according to the answer I got from Harley Benton it is actually neither, the body is supposed to be a wood called Sungkai,.

 

Not a lot of information on it to find on it on the internet really about this wood type, but compiled from different sources Sungkai is supposed to be a bit heavier than Mahogany on an average (that is to the heavier side of wood), with a hardness slightly harder than Poplar (that is to the softer side of hardwood, though still harder than Basswood), and a stiffness, that is elastic modulus, similar to Ebony (that is extremely stiff, which is good for stability), also it is supposed to look a lot like Teak wood, only a lot paler, almost white, and the tonewood qualities are supposed to be somewhat similar to Ash (that is to the brighter side of the spectrum, and with great sustain as well).

 

Sort of fits both with the weight and how the grain and color of the body wood looks on my instrument , so seems that this actually likely is it.

 

The fretboard according to Harley Benton's answer is supposed to be Purple Heart, which is similar in almost every aspect to Jatoba (not in looks though, somewhat a bit coarser grain, and untreated usually with a dark deep purple-ish brown hue), that is about as heavy and stiff as Ebony (among the absolute heaviest and stiffest of wood), a bit harder than Rosewood (that is to the absolute harder side of wood, softer than Ebony though, but considerably harder than Hard Maple), and the tonewood qualities is supposed be similar to Jatoba too, which is pretty balanced and neutral with great sustain.

 

And the grain of the fretboard of my GuitarBass does seems to match this, definitely a lot closer than Maple or Ebony, only it will have had to have been treated somehow or dyed for it to be plausible, however other Harley Benton, as well as Ibanez, instruments with Purple Heart fretboards is almost a perfect color match to the fretboard color of my GuitarBass as well.

 

So this piece of information as well seems very likely to be true.

 

So all in all I think it is pretty safe to assume  that current production Harley Benton GuitarBass Vintage Series, including mine, got a Sungkai body, and a somehow treated or dyed Purple Heart fretboard.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[BigRedX]

On 26/09/2022 at 16:58, stewblack said:

Well I can't join in the debate - I don't even know the difference between a baritone and a guitar bass. 

Until today I didn't even know there was one!

 

The difference is partly in design and partly in how the instrument is used.

 

There are essentially three types:

 

1. 28" scale length, tuned B-B. Pickups in typical guitar bridge and neck positions, usually humbuckers or P90 style fat single coils. This is a baritone guitar.

 

2. 30" scale length, tuned A-A. Pickups in typical guitar bridge and neck positions, usually humbuckers or P90 style fat single coils. This is also a baritone guitar.

 

3. 30" scale length, tuned E-E. Three single coil pickups with the centre pickup roughly in P-Bass position in proportion to the shorter scale length. This is a Bass VI (or GuitarBass).

 

Of course as you can see there is some potential overlap between types 2 and 3 as to what could be considered a baritone guitar and what could be a Bass VI, and much of the distinction will be down to how the instrument is played and what sorts of sounds it is capable of. Personally I find that the centre pickup is almost mandatory for getting a decent bass guitar sound out of one of these instruments. Players who favour bass like the Gibson EB0 with a single pickup at the neck may disagree and be perfectly happy with a set of Bass VI strings on a type 2 instrument. One thing that nearly all these instrument have in common though is that they are aimed primarily at guitarists and have guitar neck widths and string spacing at the bridge.

 

Maybe the test for whether a 30" scale instrument is a baritone guitar or a Bass VI would be if you can fit a set of the heavier Bass VI strings (with either a 95 or 100 low E) without having the modify the bridge and/or tailpiece, tune it E-E and still be able to intonate it correctly.

 

And of course then there are instruments that don't fit into any of the above categories like the Shergold Marathon 6-string bass (and the Eastwood copy) which has wider neck and bridge string spacing and a single pickup somewhere between the bridge and centre positions, but still a 30" scale length.

 

With a bit of luck you are slightly less confused now.

[stewblack]

That is such a comprehensive and coherent explanation @BigRedX

Thank you so much!

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

The difference is partly in design and partly in how the instrument is used.

 

There are essentially three types:

 

1. 28" scale length, tuned B-B. Pickups in typical guitar bridge and neck positions, usually humbuckers or P90 style fat single coils. This is a baritone guitar.

 

2. 30" scale length, tuned A-A. Pickups in typical guitar bridge and neck positions, usually humbuckers or P90 style fat single coils. This is also a baritone guitar.

 

3. 30" scale length, tuned E-E. Three single coil pickups with the centre pickup roughly in P-Bass position in proportion to the shorter scale length. This is a Bass VI (or GuitarBass).

 

Of course as you can see there is some potential overlap between types 2 and 3 as to what could be considered a baritone guitar and what could be a Bass VI, and much of the distinction will be down to how the instrument is played and what sorts of sounds it is capable of. Personally I find that the centre pickup is almost mandatory for getting a decent bass guitar sound out of one of these instruments. Players who favour bass like the Gibson EB0 with a single pickup at the neck may disagree and be perfectly happy with a set of Bass VI strings on a type 2 instrument. One thing that nearly all these instrument have in common though is that they are aimed primarily at guitarists and have guitar neck widths and string spacing at the bridge.

 

Maybe the test for whether a 30" scale instrument is a baritone guitar or a Bass VI would be if you can fit a set of the heavier Bass VI strings (with either a 95 or 100 low E) without having the modify the bridge and/or tailpiece, tune it E-E and still be able to intonate it correctly.

 

And of course then there are instruments that don't fit into any of the above categories like the Shergold Marathon 6-string bass (and the Eastwood copy) which has wider neck and bridge string spacing and a single pickup somewhere between the bridge and centre positions, but still a 30" scale length.

 

With a bit of luck you are slightly less confused now.

I simply don't agree, look at the Danelectro Longhorn 6 string bass, a 30" scale instrument meant to be tuned an octave lower than a guitar with guitar like string spacing, the first and original Bass VI instrument, which was made famous as the tic-tac bass that doubled the acoustic upright on countless of recordings, and which is what started it all and inspired Fender to make the Bass VI in the first place, it has a neck and a bridge pickup, and no middle pickup either.

 

Music Man's now discontinued take on a Bass VI, which I even believe had a 45mm wide nut, also only had a neck and bridge pickup.

 

And you can get beautiful clear piano like bass tones out of a neck pickup too, that are nothing like a Gibson SG Bass, refer to the 28.6" short scale bass I mentioned in a previous post, build out of Warmoth baritone parts, with a Seymour Duncan Rickenbacker pickup in the far neck position, that I once owned.

 

I think your distinction is conceived, based on little other than marketing decisions and popularity, and has very little to do with actual reality.

 

It all depends.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[Longwheelbass]

On 22/09/2022 at 10:01, acidbass said:

 

Cool Bass VI featured in this track/video by Fontaines DC. 

This is incredible.

 

On 22/09/2022 at 10:01, acidbass said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Longwheelbass]

 

Home-bake from 2012.

BODY: Very very old piece of barn demolition oregon from outside Seattle. Rosewood/maple 30" neck. 1978 JM pickups. 1960 JM pickguard.Special aluminum 1" bridge milled in Costa Rica. 1970 JM trem. 250k pots. 0.05 ceramic dime cap. Wired series/parallel.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Turbineclimber
MORE INFO

[acidbass]

1 hour ago, Turbineclimber said:

This is incredible.

 

 

Glad you like it. A brilliant band, real post-punk/shoegaze vibes. Smashed all the major festivals in the summer past. Going to see them live on 7 Dec and can't wait!

[crazycloud]

My SRC6s work fine as either Bass VIs either tuned E-E or A-A.

 

I might pony up for this P90 equipped HB.

Edited October 5, 2022 by crazycloud

[James Nada]

Slight thread hijack, but it's kinda relevant...

I have a Harley Benton Bass VI and I'm thinking of trying it with Baritone tuning (A to A, ideally). 

Can anyone recommend strings that'll fit?  The Ernie Ball Baritone strings (presumably made to fit their own 4+2 headstock) look a smidge short on the highest strong at 100cm long

[Baloney Balderdash]

21 hours ago, James Nada said:

Slight thread hijack, but it's kinda relevant...

I have a Harley Benton Bass VI and I'm thinking of trying it with Baritone tuning (A to A, ideally). 

Can anyone recommend strings that'll fit?  The Ernie Ball Baritone strings (presumably made to fit their own 4+2 headstock) look a smidge short on the highest strong at 100cm long

Bridge tail piece string anchoring point to nut is about 82cm on the Harley Benton GuitarBass, that is about 32", so yeah 100cm is probably a wee too short to be able to reach and wrap properly around the last couple of tuning pegs for the higher strings.

 

But the Daddario EXL157, gauge .014 - .018 - .026 - .044 - .056 - .068 , baritone string set will fit (the thinner gauge D'Addario baritone set will not, too short), and ought to be pretty much perfect gauges for A standard tuning on a 30" scale instrument, like the Harley Benton GuitarBass (I've seen a couple of YouTube videos where this set was used on a Squier Bass VI, which needs even longer strings, for this purpose exactly, that is A standard tuning, A to A).

 

 

 

Otherwise I can warmly recommend having a custom set made by Newtone, they are even an UK business: https://newtonestrings.com/

 

https://newtonestrings.com/shop/custom-string-configurator/

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[msb]

I recently restrung a 30 in Gretsch Baritone , I tune it A-A , it has a Bigsby , I put on the D’Addario X-L med 14-68 set. 
They work !

[msb]

The Gretsch does have a 3+3 headstock , but with X-L strings you should be good.

[Cato]

https://www.andertons.co.uk/squier-fsr-classic-vibe-bass-vi-purple-metallic-0374582577?msclkid=ffc85fab6ab71f5673223cfc9690effc&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IMP || Main Catalogue || PLA 1 [Generic]&utm_term=4576236124598320&utm_content=squier

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

 

The purple bass VI looks amazing, but there's no way I'd be able to sneak one into the house without the missus noticing.

[Maude]

They do look like nice, matching headstock as well IIRC. 

They were a special run for one of the big retailers I think. 

[msb]

What’s not to love? 
I bought a Squier VI last year and continue to spend a surprising amount of time on it. Love the thing. I really didn’t expect to enjoy it nearly as much as I have.

edit

It came with fairly light strings , people complained , and Fender made a heavier string set available. I put on the heavier strings and like them a lot better. I had to slightly file the nut on the low E  slot , and re-intonate. No big deal.

Edited October 27, 2022 by msb

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

The purples ones were first exclusive to Chicago Music Exchange, and are now also exclusive to Andertons.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[Cosmo Valdemar]

5 hours ago, msb said:

What’s not to love? 
I bought a Squier VI last year and continue to spend a surprising amount of time on it. Love the thing. I really didn’t expect to enjoy it nearly as much as I have.

edit

It came with fairly light strings , people complained , and Fender made a heavier string set available. I put on the heavier strings and like them a lot better. I had to slightly file the nut on the low E  slot , and re-intonate. No big deal.

Same here. I bought a beautiful pink one earlier in the year - I'm a big fan of the VI but thought it would be a niche thing but I really do love playing it! 

The previous owner had installed better saddles and heavier strings and it's a joy. My favourite setting is the neck and middle pickups and palm-muting with a pick.

I'll post a pic later.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I'm very tempted by the purple squier vi. I wonder whether it could be concealed within a mustang bass hard case....

 

I'd need a set of LaBella bass vi flats (currently £75 from amazon) so it won't be cheap but I do already have a spare purple strap which would go nicely with it.

[Jono Bolton]

4 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

The purples ones were first exclusive to Chicago Music Exchange, and are now also exclusive to Andertons.

Wouldn't that mean it's no longer exclusive? 🤔

[Jono Bolton]

I've got a Squier CV Bass VI in black. I swapped the tuners for Gotoh Vintage-style machine heads, added a Staytrem Bass VI bridge, and a Staytrem collet and trem arm that I had left over from an old Jazzmaster. I tried the Newtone strings but I didn't think they were much better than the stock ones. I bit the bullet and bought the La Bella flats and they're much better in terms of tension and I can get a much nicer action on it now.

 

I did all that and promptly put it under the bed. I get it out from time to time, but I never really know what to do with it.

 

I do like both the Lake Placid Blue and Walnut versions from CME:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChpYdezO8ua/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=