John Deacon and the dusty end.

[TimR]

Watching Queen: Live at the Rainbow on Sky Arts - it'll be repeated...

 

John Deacon doesn't appear to drop below 7th fret very often. 

 

And he's a lunatic, all over the stage and his body is bopping to 8ths for the most of it.

 

What a player. He's definitely one of my early influences. 

 

Now left wondering if 70s sound systems couldn't do the bottom end with any power, or whether something else is going on.

[Lozz196]

Probably his awareness that if he’s playing low once the guitar solos there’s a bit of a gap, whereas playing up a bit that gap isn’t quite so pronounced. Clever chap John Deacon, I watched some of it too and was impressed when it came to said solos how it didn’t seem to empty out. 

[Doctor J]

Perhaps he never spent years as a bedroom player, tweaking his technique and tone in isolation, and developed lots of good habits as an ensemble player from the very start?

[sykilz]

Being in a heavy band I spent most of the 90's playing stuff off the low D or B on a five string to get the 'heaviness', then I watched Geezer Butler playing to the heaviest riffs ever on a four string halfway up the neck and had a moment of "duh!!!!". 
I guess players like John Deacon and Geezer knew a thing or two about filling the gap in a one guitar band. 😊

[Lozz196]

Phil Lynott also apparently stuck around frets 5 to 8 when playing from what I’ve read. Whether or not it’s true I don’t know as never tried to learn any TL material.

[prowla]

Playing higher dates the music; there's something special about playing down low.

(Not saying that playing high is a bad thing, though.)

I never really much noticed John Deacon, though he is of course very good.

As for Geezer - I saw him with Heaven & Hell and he had a really good bass sound; way better than the "get out of the way of all the other instruments" muffled middley sound of the earlier Sabbath recordings.

[la bam]

John Deacon is an absolute master.

 

The common consensus out there in the public that hes average is mind boggling.

 

Try learning then play along to something like 'The Game' and you'll see just how inventive and brilliant he was. Fits the song superbly and is indeed all over the fret board.

Edited June 6, 2022 by la bam

[Greg Edwards69]

I seem to recall something about vinyl records not being able to handle low bass that well so bass players of the vinyl era tended to play higher up the neck to cut a better behaving track.

[Greg Edwards69]

10 minutes ago, la bam said:

John Deacon is an absolute master.

 

The common consensus out there in the public that he's average is mind boggling.

 

Try learning then play along to something like 'The Game' and you'll see just how inventive and brilliant he was. Fits the song superbly and is indeed all over the fret board.

John Deacon, along with Jack Bruce is the reason I started playing bass 30 odd years ago after childhood years of playing clarinet and keyboards. Inventive playing with a keen sense of melody and harmony, and always serves the song without getting in the way.  

My band had to learn "You're my best friend" for a wedding some years ago. Sounds like a simple little pop song, but that bassline, wow.

[TimR]

48 minutes ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

I seem to recall something about vinyl records not being able to handle low bass that well so bass players of the vinyl era tended to play higher up the neck to cut a better behaving track.

 

That would make sense too.

 

My first amp was 120W combo lent to me but regularly being used for a function band in the 70s. 300w+ amps didn't seem to be readily available. The SVT was 300w but an outlier and required an 8x10" cabinet. 

 

So I'm really thinking the bottom end wouldn't have been there in any strength for a rock band without really distorting. 

[Greg Edwards69]

52 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

That would make sense too.

 

My first amp was 120W combo lent to me but regularly being used for a function band in the 70s. 300w+ amps didn't seem to be readily available. The SVT was 300w but an outlier and required an 8x10" cabinet. 

 

So I'm really thinking the bottom end wouldn't have been there in any strength for a rock band without really distorting. 

Not to mention house PA systems. Just reading the Quora reply. It appear that in the 60s many bands relied on what was in the theatre for FOH, or the whole band plugged into an AC30. It appears that t wasn't until the mid 70s that dedicated subwoofers started to become commonplace. If John grew up listening to 60s bands, their bass playing influence will surely have rubbed off.  I notice that his bass lines got deeper and funkier as technology progressed.

 

https://www.quora.com/Music-How-did-concert-PA-systems-from-the-60s-and-70s-compare-to-those-today

 

And regarding the vinyl recording, it wasn't just the cutting of the vinyl that bass could cause issues. You have to bear in mind average home playback systems of the day. Again, what 70s bands grew up listening to would have shaped their early careers.

[Dood]

2 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

John Deacon, along with Jack Bruce is the reason I started playing bass 30 odd years ago after childhood years of playing clarinet and keyboards. Inventive playing with a keen sense of melody and harmony, and always serves the song without getting in the way.  

My band had to learn "You're my best friend" for a wedding some years ago. Sounds like a simple little pop song, but that bassline, wow.

 

I've not checked the notation in this video, but a great opportunity to hear just bass and drums. What a rhythm section!

 

 

[fretmeister]

When did Spike start playing 2nd guitar from back stage during the solos?

 

[Greg Edwards69]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

When did Spike start playing 2nd guitar from back stage during the solos?

 

Since 1984 IIRC. He came out on stage a handful of times at the Wembley '86 concert. I particularly remember him playing 2nd guitar on Hammer To Fall.

[BigRedX]

4 hours ago, prowla said:

Playing higher dates the music; there's something special about playing down low.

(Not saying that playing high is a bad thing, though.)

 

Playing low will date the music too, eventually.

[mikel]

16 hours ago, TimR said:

Watching Queen: Live at the Rainbow on Sky Arts - it'll be repeated...

 

John Deacon doesn't appear to drop below 7th fret very often. 

 

And he's a lunatic, all over the stage and his body is bopping to 8ths for the most of it.

 

What a player. He's definitely one of my early influences. 

 

Now left wondering if 70s sound systems couldn't do the bottom end with any power, or whether something else is going on.

Oh they could do low end. Massive bass bins and folded horn cabs. Made todays systems sound like transistor radios. No heft you see.

[Steve Browning]

That Acoustic and Hiwatt rig must have been amazing. I would die happy to play through that just once.

[Burns-bass]

41 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

That Acoustic and Hiwatt rig must have been amazing. I would die happy to play through that just once.

I had two Hiwatt DR103s and matching 4x12 cabs (Entwistle phase). Was incredible… but so so so so so so so so so so heavy.

[bass_dinger]

Listening to John Deacon, I do wonder about his influences.  He seems to have arrived in Queen fully formed, and hugely skilled, and very adaptable to the various styles of the band.    

 

School band; covers band on guitar; Queen's bassist.  

[Dood]

1 hour ago, bass_dinger said:

Listening to John Deacon, I do wonder about his influences.  He seems to have arrived in Queen fully formed, and hugely skilled, and very adaptable to the various styles of the band.    

 

School band; covers band on guitar; Queen's bassist.  

 

He'd said in interview that in his early teens he started to take music very seriously, he was influenced by Cliff Richard and The Shadows, but also The Beatles. He practiced bass often at school. In Queen, John was in to funk and according to Roger Taylor really liked Yes, to the point that Roger Taylor thought John's music tastes were "b ll cks" and "too proggy" for his tastes. John preferred McCartney's solo work versus Lennon's output. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Dood

[la bam]

To me, the 70s bassists were just a different breed. Even just with Queen - its music on a more full level. Not just playing wise, but creative wise.

 

Just a different level. Listen to some of the funk songs of the 70s, pop songs, the major hits, minor hits. It's like a different way of playing that's been forgotten. It's easier than ever to pick up on these with YouTube and isolated tracks, but it seemed quite obvious to use the full 20+ frets of all 4 strings, whereas nowadays (massive generalisation I know, but...) it seems just to be playing in a certain safe area.

 

But seriously, if you have a spare day and want to tab out a song, do The Game by john deacon and play along to it. It was never one of my favourites, but once I'd done the bassline it really opened the song up and it's a joy to play, and gives you a real insight into how to create even over a simple song.

[Dood]

11 minutes ago, la bam said:

To me, the 70s bassists were just a different breed. Even just with Queen - its music on a more full level. Not just playing wise, but creative wise.

 

Just a different level. Listen to some of the funk songs of the 70s, pop songs, the major hits, minor hits. It's like a different way of playing that's been forgotten. It's easier than ever to pick up on these with YouTube and isolated tracks, but it seemed quite obvious to use the full 20+ frets of all 4 strings, whereas nowadays (massive generalisation I know, but...) it seems just to be playing in a certain safe area.

 

But seriously, if you have a spare day and want to tab out a song, do The Game by john deacon and play along to it. It was never one of my favourites, but once I'd done the bassline it really opened the song up and it's a joy to play, and gives you a real insight into how to create even over a simple song.

 

Coincidentally, I was listening to A Night At The Opera this morning, with my ears firmly placed dead centre between my big ole studio monitors. There's some superb musicianship and incredible song writing on that album. The small details are all there. 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[la bam]

Theres a composer on youtube who videos himself listening to rock and metal songs for the first time. It's actually quite good. He talks through as hes listening and calls out the notes, chords, changes etc and you can tell he loves the interesting changes.

 

Then he listens to queen from the 70s and his head is mashed he cant keep up with anything!

[Bassfinger]

11 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Phil Lynott also apparently stuck around frets 5 to 8 when playing from what I’ve read. Whether or not it’s true I don’t know as never tried to learn any TL material.

He did indeed, as it made it less demanding to both play and sing.

 

Never really used to rate JD, but in recent years ive payed more attention to his composition and technique and would say hes a top flight all round musician. Just a shame hes not in the game any more. Queen II is my fabourite, and he an May bounce off one another brilliantly.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Bassfinger

[TimR]

2 hours ago, la bam said:

Theres a composer on youtube who videos himself listening to rock and metal songs for the first time. It's actually quite good. He talks through as hes listening and calls out the notes, chords, changes etc and you can tell he loves the interesting changes.

 

Then he listens to queen from the 70s and his head is mashed he cant keep up with anything!

 

Doug Helvering. Worth a follow.

 

A lot of 70s musicians would have grown up listening to Jazz. It would have been played everywhere.