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Should Wal scale up their operation?

joe_geezer

By joe_geezer,
in Bass Guitars

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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43 minutes ago, joe_geezer said:

So, let me put it another way then, would you have preferred that another person or team had acquired the Wal brand & been able to produce as good as Status / Jaydee quality (which imo is as good as if not better than current Wal) and prices and sane waiting times...? 

 

But a Status or Jaydee is not a Wal. They are three completely different designs of bass with completely different strengths and weaknesses. I would never consider one a substitute for any of the others, and if I did I'd probably be just as well off with a Squier.

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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5 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

But a Status or Jaydee is not a Wal. They are three completely different designs of bass with completely different strengths and weaknesses. I would never consider one a substitute for any of the others, and if I did I'd probably be just as well off with a Squier.

Sorry , no offence but I don't understand your answer in the context of my question. I think i may have confused you.

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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46 minutes ago, joe_geezer said:

Sorry , no offence but I don't understand your answer in the context of my question. I think i may have confused you.

 

Either that or you haven't expressed yourself very well. To me your post implies that you can directly compare various high-end basses. You can't at any level above that of the Fender copy market, it's all entirely subjective. The person in the market for a Jaydee (or any other high-end bass) is unlikely to also be in the market for a Wal, and if they are it will be for entirely different reasons.

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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7 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Either that or you haven't expressed yourself very well. To me your post implies that you can directly compare various high-end basses. You can't at any level above that of the Fender copy market, it's all entirely subjective. The person in the market for a Jaydee (or any other high-end bass) is unlikely to also be in the market for a Wal, and if they are it will be for entirely different reasons.

I don't know how old you are but back in the 90s you could buy a Jaydee, Wal or Status for around the same price, if anything Status & Jaydee's were more high end in terms of the pricing.

 

 

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Rich Grand Master

Rich

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1 hour ago, joe_geezer said:

would you have preferred that another person or team had acquired the Wal brand & been able to produce as good as Status / Jaydee quality (which imo is as good as if not better than current Wal) and prices and sane waiting times...? 

Obviously I'd prefer it if Wals were built like Foderas and priced like Squiers and had a lead time of 3 months, but that's not going to happen either. I'm entirely happy that the Wal brand is in the apparently safe hands that it's in -- and as far as costs and lead time are concerned, it really is what it is. I'm at a loss to understand your gist TBH. 

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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8 minutes ago, Rich said:

Obviously I'd prefer it if Wals were built like Foderas and priced like Squiers and had a lead time of 3 months, but that's not going to happen either. I'm entirely happy that the Wal brand is in the apparently safe hands that it's in -- and as far as costs and lead time are concerned, it really is what it is. I'm at a loss to understand your gist TBH. 

Ok , well i disagree, i would rather Wal be in the hands of a great company like Status or Jaydee that could ship out basses at a more reasonable price. 

Edited by joe_geezer
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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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19 hours ago, Rich said:

It already is a great company. And when it comes down to it, the decision is neither yours nor mine to make. As I've already said on more than one occasion, it is what it is.

I don't understand why you think i'm trying to make decision on behalf of the present owner of Wal lol crazy world!

Here, check this link out https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypothetical

 

 

 

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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1 hour ago, joe_geezer said:

I don't know how old you are but back in the 90s you could buy a Jaydee, Wal or Status for around the same price, if anything Status & Jaydee's were more high end in terms of the pricing.

 

Price is irrelevant.

 

If you really want a Wal then nothing else will do. If you think something else is a suitable replacement for a Wal then you probably don't actually want a Wal.

 

The same goes for any bass or guitar that is not in the budget copy market.

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

Price is irrelevant.

 

If you really want a Wal then nothing else will do. If you think something else is a suitable replacement for a Wal then you probably don't actually want a Wal.

 

The same goes for any bass or guitar that is not in the budget copy market.

. 

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Downunderwonder Grand Master

Downunderwonder

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On 14/06/2022 at 05:51, NickA said:

Leave the poor guys be!

I was careful to only suggest they could possibly increase production rates. I know nothing of their process or business succession plan or anything. They can never employ an apprentice and work through to retirement upping the price every year until selling the retirement year model for 50k a pop for all I care.

 

Or they could build it up just a little and gift it to the new staff once they have all the skills.

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velvetkevorkian Mentor

velvetkevorkian

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15 hours ago, joe_geezer said:

Ok , well i disagree, i would rather Wal be in the hands of a great company like Status or Jaydee that could ship out basses at a more reasonable price. 

I think this premise is flawed, given that Status aren't even taking orders at the moment. I suspect if the demand for Jaydees was as high they'd be in much the same boat.

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40hz Mentor

40hz

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Does anyone know how the Wal wait times of around 5 years, stack up against other builders?

 

I know a lot here seem to have no issue with it. But, I must be seemingly the only person that thinks waiting that long, is slightly absurd. 

 

If your build times are that long, all it says to me, is hire another staff member or two. 

Edited by 40hz
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40hz Mentor

40hz

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2 minutes ago, velvetkevorkian said:

 

I think you'd quite quickly run into something akin to Brooks' Law.

Interesting stuff.

 

I have experienced this at my workplace. It's painful to begin with, but after a short amount of time, things began to get much better in terms of work done as people integrated.

 

Short term pain for long term gain.

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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4 hours ago, velvetkevorkian said:

I think this premise is flawed, given that Status aren't even taking orders at the moment. I suspect if the demand for Jaydees was as high they'd be in much the same boat.

hhmmm wrong on both points...

 

Status are just taking a break & will be back making basses again very soon.

 

Jaydee's are incredibly popular & there is a waiting list but they have a large enough team to meet the demand in at least half of Wal's turn around time.

 

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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If you look at the prices right from when Wal started up again under new owners the prices for an original Wal was around £4000 on ebay & a new Wal was also £4000. 

 

The prices now for an original Wal is anywhere from £6000 upwards and a new Wal is £6000 upwards (depending on options).

 

If the price of an original Wal goes up to £8000 (theres one on reverb now for that price) will a new Wal also go up to £8000...? 

 

Is the price for a Wal  based on the perceived market price rather than the sum of its parts + labour or is this a coincidence and the price increases just reflect inflation?

 

Edited by joe_geezer
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Woodinblack Grand Master

Woodinblack

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That is the advantage of keeping the numbers down, same with rickenbacker. There will always be a market for it. If you build more, it would be easy enough to run out of market and the price plumets. Bearing in mind the market for 'non fender like basses' is reasonably small compared to the total market, it makes sense to stay well within it.

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NickA Mentor

NickA

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On 13/06/2022 at 23:38, joe_geezer said:

I disagree and thats why i won't be buying a Wal, you go ahead though and enjoy your £7000 bass and 6+ year wait

 

What wait?  I have all the Wals I want and more than I need.  Doubt either are worth £7000 either.

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joe_geezer Proficient

joe_geezer

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Price increases since 2010 for a Wal bass:

 

2010: Prices from £3200. (https://web.archive.org/web/20100206152353/http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Ordering and Pricing)

2012: Prices from £3500. (https://web.archive.org/web/20100206152353/http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Ordering and Pricing)

2013: Prices from £3650. (https://web.archive.org/web/20130602181010/http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Ordering and Pricing)

2014 : Prices from £3850. (https://web.archive.org/web/20140605222820/http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Ordering and Pricing)

2015: Wal 4-string Mk1 - £4050 (https://web.archive.org/web/20150216000620/http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Ordering and Pricing)

2016: Wal 4-string Mk1 - £4450 (https://web.archive.org/web/20160128234324/http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Ordering and Pricing)

2017: Wal 4-string Mk1 - £5300 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170427020827/http://www.walbasses.co.uk:80/Ordering and Pricing)

price remains the same until:

2019: Mk1 4-string – from £6050 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200810215913/https://walbasses.co.uk/order-and-contact/)

2020: Price is not disclosed from this point onwards

2022 - If the we take the years from 2017-19 and the price increase of £750 then we can estimate that at least this is added again, possibly even more in 2022 making £6800 - but realistically we are probably looking at £7000+

 

And compare them to Status basses

 

Status bass:

2010: £1975  S2-Classic 4-string through-neck (https://web.archive.org/web/20090824011929/http://www.status-graphite.com/status/pricelist/Status_Bass_09_INC-VAT.pdf)

2022:  £3198.00 S2-Classic 4-string through-neck (http://www.status-graphite.com/status/pricelist/Status_Bass_Pricelist.pdf)

 

I could go and bring up ebay sales from 2010-2022 of used Wal basses and they would probably match the prices of new Wals as shown above...  

Edited by joe_geezer
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