So, this "Rhythm Stick" thing....

[Hot Tub]

Although I can hardly believe it myself, I'm in the process of learning Norman Watt-Roy's original bassline to "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick."
I "acquired" the musical score for the part some time ago, and have been following that very, very, slowly, and actually reading the notes rather than counting frets from a tab chart. It's a challenge I deliberately set for myself, and it's paying off! Part of the verse is gonna take me another while to get down, but the intro, chorus, instrumental, are all nailed.

Well, I say "nailed" in the sense that I can play the notes, and I have the timing & phrasing right, and the rests & ghosts are in the right places, etc., but it's just not fast enough.

My question is: Is there a specific technique or "trick" to playing fingerstyle at that speed and with that degree of accuracy?

Let me know what you think? Any hints/tips greatfully appreciated!

[YouMa]

Keep your right hand relaxed.

Edited April 14, 2009 by YouMa

[xilddx]

Are you generally up to speed but having a few transition problems? Or generally can't play much of it at that speed? Left and right hand well coordinated? especially for the Da Da Du Du Da Da Du Du Da Da Du Du Da Da Du Pap verse parts?

[xilddx]

I just looked at a vid on YT and had a crack at the verse section. I think the hard part about this is getting a solid positive attack to each note. They need to be really even. I don't often play that way so I am a bit malco with this but after a few minutes I could see improvement. I think I'll start using this for practice now

I would play a few scales and patterns playing twice per note like song and start out VERY slowly (80 bpm - one note per beat) and concentrate on getting each note to sound even volume and smooth with no swing. Pick a pattern, play it ten times perfectly before moving the tempo up a few notches. If you make a mistake, carry on up to the ten times anyway, don't stop and start again. Don't increase speed until you can play it perfectly.

Edited April 14, 2009 by silddx

[Hot Tub]

It's really the right hand (plucking) that's the problem. My fretting hand has always been way quicker than my plucking hand (go figure! )

I've got the intro, instrumental, & chorus sections at full speed; it's just the verse I'm having the trouble with. I don't usually play that high up the neck tbh, so maybe it's partly a lack of positional familiarity (if there's such a thing?)

[quote name='silddx' post='462453' date='Apr 14 2009, 08:21 PM']I would play a few scales and patterns playing twice per note like song and start out VERY slowly (80 bpm - one note per beat) and concentrate on getting each note to sound even volume and smooth with no swing. Pick a pattern, play it ten times perfectly before moving the tempo up a few notches. If you make a mistake, carry on up to the ten times anyway, don't stop and start again. Don't increase speed until you can play it perfectly.[/quote]

Excellent idea! Thank-you - I'll have a shot at that over the next few days/weeks.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Hot Tub

[xilddx]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='462481' date='Apr 14 2009, 08:57 PM']It's really the right hand (plucking) that's the problem. My fretting hand has always been way quicker than my plucking hand (go figure! )

I've got the intro, instrumental, & chorus sections at full speed; it's just the verse I'm having the trouble with. I don't usually play that high up the neck tbh, so maybe it's partly a lack of positional familiarity (if there's such a thing?)



Excellent idea! Thank-you - I'll have a shot at that over the next few days/weeks. [/quote]

I can play really fast with my fret hand too, hammers and pulls, and only about a third that speed with my plucking hand. I need to work on that.

Playing high up the neck if you don't normally can feel strange, I rarely go above 15th and I find it odd up there in that rarified jazz atmosphere Norman seems to play a fair bit of that riff in the first position though, which presents its own problems.

I reckon you've just got a co-ordination mismatch in your hands with this piece, it's not easy to do those double plucked runs precisely at speed, so I reckon that exercise will help you a lot. Be patient and enjoy being absolutely precise at slow speeds. It may take a week, but the rewards, all over your playing, will be big. Also, I wouldn't try this in big lumps, take it easy over a week, it's a brain/finger thing and it needs a bit of time to sink in.

Good luck, it's a fabulous piece of bass

Edited April 14, 2009 by silddx

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='462406' date='Apr 14 2009, 07:27 PM']Although I can hardly believe it myself, I'm in the process of learning Norman Watt-Roy's original bassline to "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick."
I "acquired" the musical score for the part some time ago, and have been following that very, very, slowly, and actually reading the notes rather than counting frets from a tab chart. It's a challenge I deliberately set for myself, and it's paying off! Part of the verse is gonna take me another while to get down, but the intro, chorus, instrumental, are all nailed.[/quote]

Stop right there.

Which 'score' do you have? There is some horrendous crap out there that has been published in magazines, and the verse is the worst bit in most transcriptions.

Do you have to learn this for a gig? The biggest piece of advice I can give (apart from learning the correct version in the first place) is to make sure you're able to pick the line up at the next bar if you trip over your fingers. Build up the speed slowly from 90 bpm to 108 bpm (IIRC?) and use a drum machine, making sure you can get through the whole verse before you bump up the speed.

[ezbass]

I have the original bass line music/tab from the single done by Guitarist mag in Spring 2001, but the last time I saw Norman playing "Stick" he doesn't play it that way anymore, specifically he now plays a simpler, less busy version of the chorus that makes it more punchy. Great song, great workout.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='ezbass' post='465651' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:27 PM']I have the original bass line music/tab from the single done by Guitarist mag in Spring 2001, but the last time I saw Norman playing "Stick" he doesn't play it that way anymore, specifically he now plays a simpler, less busy version of the chorus that makes it more punchy. Great song, great workout.[/quote]

The Guitarist transcription was wrong, as was the Bassist transcription.

[ezbass]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='465721' date='Apr 18 2009, 12:09 AM']The Guitarist transcription was wrong, as was the Bassist transcription.[/quote]

No surprises there really, I know that the positions are not what Norman plays as he leaps around the neck like a mad thing rather than try and stay in one position. I play i) what sounds right to me using that tab as the original guide and ii) what I can actually manage for the entire song

Edited April 18, 2009 by ezbass

[Beedster]

There's a few other threads on this in this forum. To repeat what's been said above, the majority of tabs I've seen published are worng in relation to the original recorded version (although they may well reflect what NWR currently plays). IMO the notes are easy to play, the rests and mutes slightly more challenging, but that rather lovely momentum NWR develops with the line is the real magic and the hardest aspect to nail.

[Steve Woodcock]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='465721' date='Apr 18 2009, 12:09 AM']The Guitarist transcription was wrong, as was the Bassist transcription.[/quote]

Try this one:

[attachment=23994:Rhythm_Stick.pdf]

[dlloyd]

That one looks good!

If you're having difficulty with the right hand in specific bits of the song, try leading with different fingers.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='465623' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:02 PM']Stop right there.

Which 'score' do you have? There is some horrendous crap out there that has been published in magazines, and the verse is the worst bit in most transcriptions.

Do you have to learn this for a gig? The biggest piece of advice I can give (apart from learning the correct version in the first place) is to make sure you're able to pick the line up at the next bar if you trip over your fingers. Build up the speed slowly from 90 bpm to 108 bpm (IIRC?) and use a drum machine, making sure you can get through the whole verse before you bump up the speed.[/quote]


The score I have is [i]VERY [/i]similar to the one posted by Stickman (many thanks!) in this thread. There are a few very subtle differences, and actually Stickman's score is a tad easier. I estimate the NOTE SPEED (not bpm) to be around 220 notes per minute - does that sound about right? I'm currently playing the whole thing at 180 NOTES per minute (got my drum machine playing a click track), and gradually pushing the speed up.

This may or may not be the correct/best approach, but it seems to be working. Especially when you consider that barely a week ago I couldn't play a note of this!

Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions - apart from being an interesting and challenging bassline, it's a very good technical workout!

[tonybassplayer]

I have shyed away from this song but I have been looking for a little "project" song that would make me work hard so I am going to give it a go with the assistance of the notation provided....many thanks

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='467058' date='Apr 19 2009, 10:12 PM']The score I have is [i]VERY [/i]similar to the one posted by Stickman (many thanks!) in this thread. There are a few very subtle differences, and actually Stickman's score is a tad easier. I estimate the NOTE SPEED (not bpm) to be around 220 notes per minute - does that sound about right? I'm currently playing the whole thing at 180 NOTES per minute (got my drum machine playing a click track), and gradually pushing the speed up.[/quote]

It's at 108 bpm, which (ignoring rests) is 432 notes per minute.

[xilddx]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='467435' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:32 PM']It's at 108 bpm, which (ignoring rests) is 432 notes per minute.[/quote]

Normally, we would get the "it's not a bloody race, give me [b]one [/b]note that means something!" comments. Somehow I reckon NWR may be exempt from this

[ednaplate]

If you check my posts I did put a bass free backing track up for this.

[ezbass]

By coincidence I played the actual bass this was originally recorded with today. It's a P bass with a J p/up so close to the bridge it's almost touching! Guess what I played?

[51m0n]

[quote name='ezbass' post='467486' date='Apr 20 2009, 02:33 PM']By coincidence I played the actual bass this was originally recorded with today. It's a P bass with a J p/up so close to the bridge it's almost touching! Guess what I played?[/quote]

Kazoo???

Banjo??

Sax???

Sorry you're going to have to give me a clue here......

[Hamster]

This has got to be closer than any tab:

[url="http://www.theblockheads.com/audio.php?a=norman_plays_hit_me&t=Norman+Plays+%27Hit+Me%27"]http://www.theblockheads.com/audio.php?a=n...ys+%27Hit+Me%27[/url]

[ezbass]

[quote name='51m0n' post='467565' date='Apr 20 2009, 03:51 PM']Kazoo???

Banjo??

Sax???

Sorry you're going to have to give me a clue here......[/quote]


I see what you've done there, you've taken "guess what I played" and made it into.........

Made me smile

What's the definition of a gentleman? One who can play the banjo, but doesn't.

PS There were definitely no prizes for guessing the tune played on the heavily nicotine stained instrument.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='467435' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:32 PM']It's at 108 bpm, which (ignoring rests) is 432 notes per minute.[/quote]


My heart sank when I read this. Then I checked my calculations. Currently at 320, so a way to go yet, but not as bad as I initially thought! <[i]PHEW![/i]>

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='467726' date='Apr 20 2009, 06:34 PM']My heart sank when I read this. Then I checked my calculations. Currently at 320, so a way to go yet, but not as bad as I initially thought! <[i]PHEW![/i]>[/quote]

Speed it up a couple of bpm each day and you'll be there in no time... make sure you can get through the verse before speeding it up.

The song is actually quite forgiving... believe it or not. If you can pick up the bassline quickly after making a mistake, nobody will be any the wiser.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='467929' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:03 PM']Speed it up a couple of bpm each day and you'll be there in no time... make sure you can get through the verse before speeding it up.

The song is actually quite forgiving... believe it or not. If you can pick up the bassline quickly after making a mistake, nobody will be any the wiser.[/quote]


Exactly what I'm doing, a little step at a time, and it's working! I've got the whole thing nailed now, playing at a consistent 90bpm (360 notes per minute!)... still a bit to go yet...! I can do some of it faster, but I'm only counting when I can play the whole thing with no errors, several times reliably.

And it's all thanks to folks on this thread and elsewhere. I'd never have attempted this without the encouragement, tips, suggestions, and general support from this amazing forum! Thank-you!