Barefaced Supertwin

[drlargepants]

Somewhat of a musing here so apologies for that !
 

I’ve been after this tone in my head for years which is basically early Queen, woody, p bass with flats etc 

 

In pursuit of this I own a handbox all valve head and a BF supertwin 

 

At the last rehearsal I did I couldn’t be bothered taking my rig with me and used the random 4x10 with a tweeter and an amp of equally dubious provenance. 
 

I ended up with a somewhat top heavy somewhat distorted Geddy Lee tone (I have the picking technique of an amped up gorilla which helps) and I had a tonal nirvana moment, totally at odds with what I’ve being trying to achieve 🤦‍♂️ 
 

So the question is what sort of cab do I actually need ? I don’t think the super twin is actually what I need despite it’s obvious weight advantages. 
 

Head-wise I’ve discovered that going into the effects loop straight from the (active) bass gets me most of the way there, as does adding a compressor. Sansamp may help even more. 

Maybe the cab isn’t so important it’s more down to the amp, in which case crack on lad 🤣 
 

I’ve just fallen in love with that slight distortion on the attack rolling back into a scooped mid sound 

 

 

 

[Downunderwonder]

All that is easily achieved with the right preamp pedal and some EQ. Stick with the BF cab and then your effected DI on the really big gigs will be easily amped up by the PA as it won't have any cab compensating colouring in it.

[drlargepants]

That’s interesting thank you 🙏 

[Lozz196]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

All that is easily achieved with the right preamp pedal and some EQ. Stick with the BF cab and then your effected DI on the really big gigs will be easily amped up by the PA as it won't have any cab compensating colouring in it.

Exactly what I was going to say. The BF is just a lot less “coloured” in comparison to the 410 so it’s a case of getting there with eq. 

[James Nada]

33 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Exactly what I was going to say. The BF is just a lot less “coloured” in comparison to the 410 so it’s a case of getting there with eq. 

Me too 😂.  One of the deciding factors for me getting a BF Super was so the PA/DI feed was comparable to the cab sound.

Edited June 11, 2022 by James Nada

[JPJ]

Haha someone else on the same journey as me. I’ve played for years with a smooth bass heavy ‘fat’ sound believing this to be the best, but then I had a tonal nirvana moment when I realised the power of mids. I now have a much more snarly tone that just sits so much better in the mix and I’m using the same amp and cab, just different eq and more recently the addition of a SansAmp.

[fretmeister]

The Super Twin tops out at about 4Khz. The rando cab you used with a tweeter probably goes to 10Khz at least - maybe as high as 20Khz

 

there's not a lot of fundamental anything up there but it does allow more harmonic content to get through.

So it depends on what element of the sound you are looking for. If it is more top end then maybe a Barefaced Big Twin 2 as that has a tweeter in it.

 

But also the Super Twin is a quite neutral speaker so to make it sound like other cabs you'll need very different EQ setting. Definitely adjust with your ears and not your eyes!

[Clarky]

I think its obvious the weak link in the chain is the Handbox WB-100 all valve amp, so I would do the decent thing and take it off your hands 😁

[Jack]

On 10/06/2022 at 23:06, drlargepants said:

In pursuit of this I own a handbox all valve head

 

On 10/06/2022 at 23:06, drlargepants said:

Head-wise I’ve discovered that going into the effects loop straight from the (active) bass gets me most of the way there, 

Sacrilege. 

[la bam]

If you want early queen sound, listen to some of the isolated bass tracks from queen on youtube.

 

John's sound is nothing like youd think. Its raw, very rough sounding and quite growly. Sits in the mix as something completely different.

[pbasspecial]

10 minutes ago, la bam said:

If you want early queen sound, listen to some of the isolated bass tracks from queen on youtube.

 

John's sound is nothing like youd think. Its raw, very rough sounding and quite growly. Sits in the mix as something completely different.

I think that’s very common amongst decent rock players as it acts like an adhesive between the guitar and bass sound, making one magical super tone. 
 

[Lozz196]

19 minutes ago, la bam said:

If you want early queen sound, listen to some of the isolated bass tracks from queen on youtube.

 

John's sound is nothing like youd think. Its raw, very rough sounding and quite growly. Sits in the mix as something completely different.

 

7 minutes ago, pbasspecial said:

I think that’s very common amongst decent rock players as it acts like an adhesive between the guitar and bass sound, making one magical super tone. 
 

Agree, and makes me wonder at the “having to have the cleanest sound” thing, when so many revered bassists of the past did the complete opposite.

[fretmeister]

30 minutes ago, la bam said:

If you want early queen sound, listen to some of the isolated bass tracks from queen on youtube.

 

John's sound is nothing like youd think. Its raw, very rough sounding and quite growly. Sits in the mix as something completely different.

I’ve been experimenting with this lately.

 

My sound for my big band is now horrible when played alone. It’s narrow, farty, inarticulate foulness. Genuinely unpleasant.

 

And it’s the best I’ve ever had when everybody else is playing.

 

The drummer actually noticed!

 

 

[Clarky]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I’ve been experimenting with this lately.

 

My sound for my big band is now horrible when played alone. It’s narrow, farty, inarticulate foulness. Genuinely unpleasant.

 

And it’s the best I’ve ever had when everybody else is playing.

 

The drummer actually noticed!

 

 

Similarly fret buzz doesn’t seem to worry 'classic' bass players. Listen to isolated Chris Squier on something like Roundabout or Heart of the Sunrise and its clanky and buzzy as hell. If I had that sound at home, I would be fiddling around with truss rods etc. Yet it works perfectly for CS as part of ensemble

 

Edit: apols to OP as this is a bit tangential

Edited June 12, 2022 by Clarky

[MyNameIsMark]

I downsized from a SuperTwin... mistake!... they are wonderful. I found it way more efficient with low frequenices than generic cabs, I had to roll my amp's bass right back - maybe your "go to" EQ needs to be very different with other cabs? (e.g. boosting bass to get to your usual levels w/ BF which will balance those tops?)

[CJPJ]

I kick myself for waiting on getting one of these. Not only have the prices gone up but Scott's Bass Lessons used to have an affiliate link to get 15% discount. All it, my indecision will cost me the best part of £300!

[garyt]

How do you set your amp head?  
Set bass and treble to noon, and then tweak to fit in with your band / room.  Switch the contour off - I found any scooped mids didn’t work with the ST.  Drive the gain as high as you can before it breaks up.  Once you get the ST set up right, it’s such a great cab for playing in a band, as you can sit it really well in the mix.   I set my amp as neutral as possible, and then just tweak any frequency that needs it.  

[moley6knipe]

Yesterday, THAT epic rock sound was done like this for me. The grin on my face, like!

 

1mm pick > fresh nickel rounds > neck humbucker > source audio aftershock > 4:1 comp > GK 700RB > Barefaced BB2

[drlargepants]

On 12/06/2022 at 14:34, Clarky said:

Similarly fret buzz doesn’t seem to worry 'classic' bass players. Listen to isolated Chris Squier on something like Roundabout or Heart of the Sunrise and its clanky and buzzy as hell. If I had that sound at home, I would be fiddling around with truss rods etc. Yet it works perfectly for CS as part of ensemble

 

Edit: apols to OP as this is a bit tangential

I could take about CS for days so no it’s fine 🤣 

[drlargepants]

On 12/06/2022 at 22:16, garyt said:

How do you set your amp head?  
Set bass and treble to noon, and then tweak to fit in with your band / room.  Switch the contour off - I found any scooped mids didn’t work with the ST.  Drive the gain as high as you can before it breaks up.  Once you get the ST set up right, it’s such a great cab for playing in a band, as you can sit it really well in the mix.   I set my amp as neutral as possible, and then just tweak any frequency that needs it.  

totally flat and mess about with tone control on bass and contour knob on amp. 
 

 

[fretmeister]

40 minutes ago, drlargepants said:

totally flat and mess about with tone control on bass and contour knob on amp. 
 

 

 

 

With a super twin and a more trad cab you might need to do very different EQ shaping.

Traditional cabs are quite often far more scooped as a starting point and the ST is a lot more neutral and very close to flat response.

 

Don't be afraid to use all the range of the EQ controls, it is what they are for.

[chris_b]

On 12/06/2022 at 14:34, Clarky said:

Similarly fret buzz doesn’t seem to worry 'classic' bass players. Listen to isolated Chris Squier on something like Roundabout or Heart of the Sunrise and its clanky and buzzy as hell. If I had that sound at home, I would be fiddling around with truss rods etc. Yet it works perfectly for CS as part of ensemble

 

This. The bassist from Squeeze came along to an SE Bass Bash and he clanked and buzzed through the whole presentation. All the extraneous noises disappear when the other instruments come in.

[drlargepants]

48 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I tend to use a plug in and go approach, eq is a bit of a mystery to me 

 

With a super twin and a more trad cab you might need to do very different EQ shaping.

Traditional cabs are quite often far more scooped as a starting point and the ST is a lot more neutral and very close to flat response.

 

Don't be afraid to use all the range of the EQ controls, it is what they are for.

 

[fretmeister]

Put on a CD at a good volume (EQ is very volume dependent) and play along.

 

Tweak each control at a time and see what it does. Even better if you can have someone else tweak while you play so you get instant signal changes.

 

What it does in the mix is far more important than how it sounds alone. Often they are very different.

This process will help you learn what each does on your amp. All amps are a little different. On some the Bass knob could be 40hz or 60hz ish. On others it might be as high as 80Hz.

 

So they are all different, so always ignore the knob positions and trust your ears.

 

Have a look on youtube for Isolated Bass Tracks. These are the actual bass tracks from famous recordings. Listen to the full recording and then the bass part alone. You'll usually find that when heard alone the bass part is far dirtier than expected and may have a bit of a nasal quality to the sound where a lot of highs and super lows have been reduced.

 

Sounds horrible on it's own, but brilliant in the mix.

 

Ultimately though it's just somewhere from 3-5 knobs on most amps. Have a good tweak so you learn to hear what they do.

[Dan Dare]

26 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Have a look on youtube for Isolated Bass Tracks. These are the actual bass tracks from famous recordings. Listen to the full recording and then the bass part alone. You'll usually find that when heard alone the bass part is far dirtier than expected and may have a bit of a nasal quality to the sound where a lot of highs and super lows have been reduced.

 

Sounds horrible on it's own, but brilliant in the mix.

 

Spot on. When I'm setting up in a smaller venue where I am not DI'd into the PA, I go for a wander, using wireless or a long lead, during soundcheck to see how the bass integrates with the rest of the band sound. It can be a bit of an eye/ear opener. That fat juicy bass sound you hear close to your rig can easily sound like boomy mush in the room. I often have to thin it down and accentuate the mids to the point where it takes on that nasal quality. Not the nicest to listen to close to the rig, but it works in the room, which is what matters.

 

Makes a bit of a mockery of all the striving for "my sound"...