Silent Stage - is a new concept to me.. HELP !!

[BigJHW]

Hey guys n girls of the low end variety.
This must have been covered in a million places and times by now but none of my searches brought back any hits (so my wording is clearly off.. sorry).... Also sorry if this is not the ideal place.

 

The band are considering going "silent" on stage - so no backline everything front of house.
after just spending out on a eich t900 to go with the barefaced 212T this concept of "no backline" is most frustrating but...

 

What do i need to be able to go totally back line free?

 

IEM's - looking at the Mackie mp-360's 

Some sort of volume box for the IEM's to plug in too 

 

but.... this is where i get lost

*worth noting i don't use any pedals at all so when live at the mo it's me -- Bass -- cable -- bass head -- bass cab ....end

 

Going without a backline tho - do i now NEED some sort of pedals?
HX-Stomp kinda thing?
or can i just go direct in to the desk and off we pop?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers low end lovers.

 

Big JHW

 

[Osiris]

A good place to start would be a pre-amp pedal of some sort, it's effectively an amp but without a power section. That way you'll get a more familiar, amp like tone through the PA. There's a million different pre-amp pedals on the market so go for one that has the type of sound you like. I don't think Eich make a pre-amp pedal but there's a shed load of pedals that will give you a similar clean tone that you get from the amp. Something like the Helix Stomp will cover more than you'll ever need although I got rid of mine because of option fatigue and replaced it with a simple pre-amp and compressor pedals as that suits my simple needs better. 

 

Although thinking about it, you may even be able to carry on using the Eich by running the DI into the desk.

Just check that you can run the amp without a cab load first!

 

There's wired and wireless in ear monitor options to explore and there's a couple of extensive threads on here that will answer all your questions. This is the obvious place to start...

 

 

[BigJHW]

yeah went through that thread - WOW that's a lot of info
 

Was thinking a Sansamp VT deluxe as that'll give me all the tonal options i think i'll ever need - and a solid DI

[6v6]

I've been down this route recently with one of my bands, only done a couple of gigs so far but FWIW here's a summary of my experiences:

 

Started out using Shure SE535 (which I already had) - these have a very flat response which I found wasn't ideal so I got some KZ ZS10s (as suggested in one of the existing IEM threads) and I'm very impressed for the cost, the bass response is significantly stronger.

 

Preamp - I use an HX Stomp direct to the desk, personally I didn't find the amp/cab models worked that well in a live mix, so instead I'm using a compressor block and the ZeroAmp Bass DI.  I don't normally use compression, but without any natural amp/cab compression it's helpful.

 

I'm also considering moving away from the HX stomp (at least live, it's a handy thing for recording/practice) since I don't use 99% of the features, probably will try a compressor and preamp pedal (Sansamp or maybe Origin Effects Bass Rig).

Edited June 13, 2022 by 6v6

[DaytonaRik]

I ditched the Ashdown head and cabs this year in favour of a Valeton Dapper Bass pedal which I tried back-to-back with the SansAmp Bass Flyrig v2 and tbh I just preferred the Valeton - it is just  more 'me' which straight is ahead rock, a touch of chorus now and again.

 

IEMs are a set of 64 Audio A3 Customs which are quite frankly amazing running over an older but serviceable DBTechnologies IEM2000T stereo system.

 

As a band we use a Behringer X32 rack which has plenty of sends and have a mixture of wired IEMS (drums), wireless IEMS (myself) and stage monitors (2 x guitarists and lead vocals) but one of the guitarists is very interested in going down the IEM route, and is even contemplating going 'silent' as well. 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by DaytonaRik

[BigJHW]

3 hours ago, 6v6 said:

Started out using Shure SE535 (which I already had) - these have a very flat response which I found wasn't ideal so I got some KZ ZS10s (as suggested in one of the existing IEM threads) and I'm very impressed for the cost, the bass response is significantly stronger.

 

How you getting on with the KZ ZS10's? I read a lot of reviews on them but also read they struggle in a live environment and they're better for studio or gaming - so very mixed reviews.. I liked them due to their price, but am also leaning towards the mackie MP-360's - a LOT more expensive than the ZS10's but reviews for bass seem to be good.

[BigJHW]

2 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

I ditched the Ashdown head and cabs this year in favour of a Valeton Dapper Bass pedal which I tried back-to-back with the SansAmp Bass Flyrig v2 and tbh I just preferred the Valeton - it as more 'me' which straight ahead rock, a touch of chorus now and again.

 

IEMs for me are a set of 64 Audio A3 Customs which as quite frankly amazing running over an older but serviceable DBTechnologies IEM2000T stereo system.

 

As a band we use a Behringer X32 rack which has plenty of sends and have a mixture of wired IEMS (drums), wireless IEMS (myself) and stage monitors (2 x guitarists and lead vocals) but one of the guitarists is very interested in going down the IEM route, and is even contemplating going 'silent' as well. 

 

Wowzer them's some pricy IEM's. i looked at custom fit IEM's but as we're just a local pub gigging back and don't actually gig that much - justifying customs just isn't a thing right now.
but... that X32 has peaked my intrigue for sure.
I'm trying to convince the band lead to grab a couple of RCF 735a's (or the 745's but they cost more) as a replacement for the old yamaha cabs we're using atm - and they'd work well with that X32 for sure... and we'd have plenty of available slots to play with too.. hmmm i'll suggest it

Ooo and i looked at the Valeton Dapper too a while back now - but as i don't really use "effects" it wasn't for me.. but i am still considering a SansAmp nyc Deluxe (i think that's what it's called) - so i can preset some tones for various tracks - rather than fiddling about with the bass onboard EQ 

Edited June 13, 2022 by BigJHW

[Mottlefeeder]

I may be burned at the stake for this, but I prefer IEMs with less bass, and I turn down the bass on my monitor mixer. I find I can hear my bass notes with more clarity without that bottom octave or so.

I'm using a cheap mixer with 3-band eq to approximate to the profile of my hearing aids, and I feed that through a passive belt-mounted volume control to a pair of Shure SE215s. 

I take a feed from the desk (acoustic guitars and vocals), a feed from my bass amp, and a stage ambience mic to pick up drums and band comments.

David

[DaytonaRik]

1 hour ago, BigJHW said:

Wowzer them's some pricy IEM's. i looked at custom fit IEM's but as we're just a local pub gigging back and don't actually gig that much - justifying customs just isn't a thing right now.
but... that X32 has peaked my intrigue for sure.
I'm trying to convince the band lead to grab a couple of RCF 735a's (or the 745's but they cost more) as a replacement for the old yamaha cabs we're using atm - and they'd work well with that X32 for sure... and we'd have plenty of available slots to play with too.. hmmm i'll suggest it

Ooo and i looked at the Valeton Dapper too a while back now - but as i don't really use "effects" it wasn't for me.. but i am still considering a SansAmp nyc Deluxe (i think that's what it's called) - so i can preset some tones for various tracks - rather than fiddling about with the bass onboard EQ 

With IEMs I figure that you get that you pay for - as a vocalist as well as a bass player I wanted something that fitted perfectly as attenuation was an important choice given that the IEMs should prevent external audio leaking into your IEM mix.  We're also just a pub band/weekend warriors also but using IEMs has prevented further hearing damage given the close proximity to cymbals, guitarist insisting on playing with 4x12 cabs at stupid levels etc. 5 years down the line they're still as good as new although they may need a reshell in the near future as your ears don't stop growing so the fit changes.

 

The X32 is a great desk in whatever format but the rack is a 3U piece of genius.  We use it with an 8 port stage box downstage for wedges, vocal mics and FoH send plus bass input/output, and a 16 port stagebox upstage for backline, drums and wireless vocal mics.  The stage boxes connect over a single RJ45 cable so much shorter more manageable cable runs

 

Like you, I'm not an FX user per se but to my ears the preamp section of the Valeton just hit the spot - the additional chorus is a nice touch on some tracks (G'n'R, Slash, Velvet Revolver) and the envelop filter get's an outing on Play That Funky Music

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by DaytonaRik

[jimmyb625]

9 hours ago, BigJHW said:

 

How you getting on with the KZ ZS10's? I read a lot of reviews on them but also read they struggle in a live environment and they're better for studio or gaming - so very mixed reviews.. I liked them due to their price, but am also leaning towards the mackie MP-360's - a LOT more expensive than the ZS10's but reviews for bass seem to be good.

I've used them for a while and have no complaints. I'm sure there are better sets out there, but I would think I'd need to pay a lot more to get a noticeable improvement. I only ever use them live, so can't comment on using them for studio stuff, but they do the job I need them to do.

[Bassman68]

I’ve been playing a silent stage with my Tribute band for 12 months now.

It took a while to get used to, but so much of it is down to a good monitor mix in your ears…

I basically upgraded through a couple of sets of In-ears, ME electronics to CCA to UE6’s.

I use the pre-amp sims from my pedalboard (Boss gt6B) straight to the desk, sometimes a Line6 Basspod pro.

 

Your Eich on its own, should have a good enough D.I without having to spend money on another pre-amp, but the Sansamp will do a good job, alternatively something like a Behringer BDI21 will let you ‘dip your toe in the water’ for not a lot of money?
 

Might I also suggest a pedal tuner (I know you said you don’t use pedals) to mute everything on occasions?
 

The best things about the silent stage (apart from your ears not ringing after the gig) is the ease of set-up & pack-down, No lugging bass rigs back to the car, & more room on stage (very handy at pub gigs?)..

[lemmywinks]

What I use now:

 

Bass > Fishman Platinum Pro EQ > Behringer XR18 > Behringer P2 > KZ ZS10

 

Basically using the cheapo IEM setup recommended on here, no complaints and astonishingly cheap. The only variable is what preamp you want to use if you want bass specific features at your feet rather than just using a DI box - definitely check the Fishman out if you don't need drive.

[lemmywinks]

5 hours ago, Bassman68 said:

The best things about the silent stage (apart from your ears not ringing after the gig) is the ease of set-up & pack-down, No lugging bass rigs back to the car, & more room on stage (very handy at pub gigs?)..

 

Yeah and this.

[BigJHW]

23 hours ago, Bassman68 said:

Your Eich on its own, should have a good enough D.I without having to spend money on another pre-amp

Didn't actually realise that the Eich amps worked without a cab attached to them - that as quite a revelation haha. Means apart from IEM's and Headphone amp i think i'm pretty much ready to go

[6v6]

On 13/06/2022 at 17:05, BigJHW said:

 

How you getting on with the KZ ZS10's? I read a lot of reviews on them but also read they struggle in a live environment and they're better for studio or gaming - so very mixed reviews.. I liked them due to their price, but am also leaning towards the mackie MP-360's - a LOT more expensive than the ZS10's but reviews for bass seem to be good.

 

For the price, impressions are very good - the build quality (particularly cables) and fit definitely isn't as good as Shure, and they're not as flat/accurate as the SE535s, but live so far I'm choosing the ZS10s over my Shures (I have both 215s and 535s).