Controller Keyboard to use with Logic

[BigRedX]

I'm looking for a controller keyboard to use with Logic for programming as well as for playing synth parts live. I don't want anything massive - 3 octaves will be fine (maybe even just 2) but I would like full-width keys (again slightly smaller will probably be fine, but definitely no mini keys). 

Other than that I don't really know. How useful are the various pads that most of these devices sport? When I last used to do any MIDI programming I simply used the keys on whatever synth I had available that had MIDI sockets on it and bashed at the relevant ones for programming drums.

Connectivity - I will need USB for in the "studio" as I do everything "In The Box", but a proper MIDI DIN socket might be more useful live as the audio interface we use to connect to the PA has MIDI DIN connectors on it, and suspect this may be more reliable. Is it? I try and avoid using consumer-grade computer connectors that need to be plugged in on stage, as I don't trust them not become disconnected.

Anything else I should be aware of?

I've been looking at the Novation Launchkey 25 or 37. What else is out there?

Thanks in advance!

[skidder652003]

I got my lad the Arturia minilab. I know you don't want small keys but I believe they do larger ones as well.

Apparently the keys action is better on the Arturia range ( so i saw on Youtube FWIW)

He's blown away with it (he's into electronica and dance music and studying a degree in MT at Bristol uni)

I gave him my old M Audio controllers and the the new Arturia and Novation stuff blows that out of the water

Do any of the new controllers still have MIDI DIN?

 

https://www.arturia.com/products#hybrid-synths

Edited June 13, 2022 by skidder652003

[BigRedX]

@skidder652003 Thanks!, However AFAIKS all the full-size keyboards are at least 4 octaves, which is too big for on-stage.

 

The Novation keyboard I'm looking at has both DIN and USB for connectivity.

[BigRedX]

Just ordered a Launchkey 37. The only alternative that came close was the iRig Keys2 Pro, which is wider and therefore less suitable for my needs. Plus I've had a bad experience with IK Multimedia in the past so I was very reluctant to buy one of their products.

[xgsjx]

I’ve heard good things about the Novation gear (their synths are good value for money too). 
I use Logic in band situations too, but may get mainstage, as it’s more performance oriented.

 

I’ve got a Native Instruments S61, which is a nice controller, but my choice for live playing is my Roli Rise25. Can get very expressive on it. 😎

[BigRedX]

Unfortunately the Launchkey 37 might have to be returned, as it doesn't appear to work with the version of Logic pro X that I use in the studio for doing the actual programming/writing. I spent a very frustrating 5 hours on Friday (3 of them with a Novation technical specialist in on-line chat) trying to make it work without success. It turns out that although it's not mentioned specifically on either the Novation web site or in the Manual the Mk3 versions of the Lauchkey range require Logic Pro X 10.5.1 as a minimum. At the moment because of the Mac I'm using I'm limited to Logic 10.4.8. We couldn't even get it to work as a basic MIDI keyboard via USB on this Mac, which may or may not be a fault with this actual keyboard, but at the moment it's not possible to tell. Th Mk2 version doesn't integrate as well with Logic (it was designed mainly for use with Ableton and direct Logic integration was only added with MK3) there doesn't appear to be a 3-octave version, and if I can't use all the extra buttons and knobs there's no point in having them take valuable space making the device bigger than it needs to be.

 

I might be back to looking for an alternative controller.

 

Roli appear to have gone bust and whenever I've tried one of their "keyboards" I really haven't been able to get on with it.

 

Still not convinced by MainStage if you also need to use it to play backing tracks as, the last version I looked at was missing several basic (to me) functions such as the direct import of Logic songs and the ability to program what happens between songs in a set.

[Velarian]

How about Alesis V25 or V49? They have full size velocity sensitive keys. However, they have a usb midi connection rather than the traditional din connector. 

[xgsjx]

Have a look at the NI S25 mk2, it might fit your bill. 
 

Roli are very much on the go. They’ve just launched the Rise mk2 a couple of weeks ago.  It’s supposed to have a much easier to play surface & the keys are more defined (as opposed to just being a wavey surface like mine).   Though at present, it’s only the 49 key that’s out. 25 is yet to be released. 
They also do Lumi, which is a 2 octave keyboard, which you can join more together to make 4 or 6 octaves (maybe more).

 

I’ve not used mainstage myself, but the main keys player at church uses it & plays backing tracks from it. I’m sure you’ll be able to bounce the LPX tracks as wav & pop them into mainstage (though a direct dump like you say, would be the sensible thing for it to do).  But, I’ve never used it. Might be worth doing a bit of research on it from Apple & YouTube. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by xgsjx

[BigRedX]

Thanks for the suggestions, but why does it seem as though only Novation and IK Multimedia have controllers with 3 octave keyboards.

 

Having been able to try the Novation with my live rig (that runs a slightly newer version of Logic) has convinced me that I need three octaves. 2 Octaves isn't enough to get all the drum sounds from Logic drum designer on. My keyboard playing is from the 80s where I grew up with 3 octave mono-synths, and that's what I like the best. I'm waiting to hear back from Novation (hopefully tomorrow) to see if there are any further things I can try to get it work with the version of Logic that I have to use.

 

Since I last posted I thought it might be an idea to have a look and see what has changed in the most recent version of MainStage and see if it will now do what I want. While doing a bounce from Logic for the audio would be a solution, we do like to tweak the relative instrument settings when we practice, which wouldn't be possible. Also I have discovered that even the most recent version fails at one of the most important functions I need. The ability to play back MIDI files in sync with the audio. One of the things we want to do is automate all the patch changes for the synths and the instruments using programmable effects pedals. After all if we're using pre-programmed backing it would make sense as the patch changes always need to be at the same point in the song in relation to the audio track. Simply can't be done. Generally it appears as though MainStage is aimed at keyboard players who want to run their "rig" from a computer with a keyboard controller instead of lots of hardware synths etc. rather than people who want to automate the playback of the backing for the set. 

 

 

[lowdown]

 

The NI S25 has been discontinued for quite a while. 

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, lowdown said:

 

The NI S25 has been discontinued for quite a while. 

 

As I have just discovered. There is the A25, but as I said only 2 octaves.

Edited June 19, 2022 by BigRedX

[lowdown]

25 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

As I have just discovered. There is the A25, but as I said only 2 octaves.

 

 

 

I have an A25, but I just use it mainly for Mono lines and controlling the Komplete Kontrol software, along with recording CC#'s (the A25 doesn't have 5 pin din, by the way).

Also, I use it for Drum and Percussion programming/parts - I just use the transpose buttons if I need more notes.

 

My main controller is a Studiologic 88 (one of the older models - about 16 years old and I love it for Piano playing. It feels nice to play).

That is a 5 pin din. I don't know why, but I feel more comfortable with 5 pin...maybe I'm just too old school still in my midi thinking.

 

Yes, you are right, for some reason, three octave controllers are few and far between these days.

Edited June 19, 2022 by lowdown

[xgsjx]

12 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

The NI S25 has been discontinued for quite a while. 

I didn’t know that. I’ve got the S61 & it’s a great controller. Only downside is it would have benefitted from sliders & drumpads.  But I’ve got a Korg Nanocontrol2 for my slider needs. 

[lowdown]

Double post.

Edited June 19, 2022 by lowdown

[lowdown]

 

13 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I didn’t know that. I’ve got the S61 & it’s a great controller. Only downside is it would have benefitted from sliders & drumpads.  But I’ve got a Korg Nanocontrol2 for my slider needs. 

 

Yes, the NI controllers are great. They work well with the Komplete Kontrol software.

[Leonard Smalls]

I've got an Impulse 61, but they do smaller versions. It should work with Logic as that's one of the options in the DAW menu on it. I use mine with Ableton.

Only problem I've had is that it's very fussy about which usb cable it'll work with!

[BigRedX]

The Impulse is only available in 2, 4 and 5 octave keyboard sizes, and since its also by Novation, AFAICS there is not guarantee that it will work with my version of Logic. Also I don't like piano style keys for controlling synths. The feel is all wrong.

[lowdown]

27 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The Impulse is only available in 2, 4 and 5 octave keyboard sizes, and since its also by Novation, AFAICS there is not guarantee that it will work with my version of Logic. Also I don't like piano style keys for controlling synths. The feel is all wrong.

 

Have you looked into Arturia KeyStep Pro 37-key Controller & Sequencer ?

It's in between full size and mini keys, it has Slim Keys with a Synth Action...Also it has both DIN and USB connections.

It might be over-kill for your needs with all the functions available, and of course, I've no idea if it will work with you Mac.

 

Arturia KeyStep Pro 37-key Controller & Sequencer

 

I get the feeling you might have to look at a 25 note controller...far more options available.

[xgsjx]

Yeah, there’s very few options when it comes to 37 key midi controllers. One other with full size keys is the Alesis Vortex. It’s a keytar, but you could still pop it on an X stand. 

[BigRedX]

After a couple more emails back and forth with the Novation technical specialist, it was suggested that the problem might be down to the fact that the Launchkey wasn't getting enough power from the USB port on my Mac and maybe a powered USB hub would be worth trying. 

 

Therefore I gave it one more go plugged into the USB port on the back of one of my Apple Cinema Displays which in theory is a powered hub, although with other devices I often get a warning that there is insufficient power for them to work... and it works! The Control Surface Setup window popped up when I launched Logic, and all the functions I want to use so far work. I've just used it to add a simply synth lead part to the song I am currently working on.

 

Panic over...