Is it *wrong* to swap between French and German bows?

[Jakester]

Sorry for the total noob question - not yet found a DB teacher so muddling my way through as best I can for now. 
 

When I started messing around with DB I picked up a cheap bow from here, but not knowing  the difference between French and German, I just assumed you played it French style. So that’s what I did, until a kindly cellist pointed out the difference. I tried German grip but it felt unnatural, so I bought a French bow.

 

I still really struggle with the grip - my hand aches after about 32 bars, but I presume it‘s a strengthening thing. I’ve  contacted a couple of local teachers but none have responded to be, so still on the hunt. 

 

Anyway, I’ve been struggling with a particular piece and out of frustration I picked up the German bow, and instantly found it easier to play  that piece. 
 

Then I went back to another piece and found it was hard to play with the German bow, but easier with the French.

 

So, is there any reason (other than looking like a dork) I can’t use both? 

[mybass]

What reason? Play which is easiest. In the classical world it may be deemed ‘inappropriate’ to play both bows due to possible ingrained old ‘rules of the orchestra’. I’ve not played my DB for many years. I suffered the frustration of (trying) to use the French style smaller frog bow. I bought a cheapo German one recently but haven’t attempted it yet. It’s interesting how you found reverting to the German one made that piece of music easier to play. However, there is also the question of how much rosin on the bow is the ideal and possibly which make of rosin is best for your bow, style, strings, bass. Good luck.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

It is really important to keep your hand relaxed - it takes quite a lot of practice with french bow to get the hang of it, and getting tired is perfectly normal (based on my personal experience), take lots of breaks, and practice little and often and you will make progress.

 

Tension will make you tired and sound bad.

 

No reason you can't use both bows - you have to make the determination whether you are diluting your practice time/energy though.

 

Practice in front of a mirror, and get a good teacher - you really don't want to bake in bad form at this stage.

[zbd1960]

If your hand is tiring very quickly, then you're holding it wrong. You need a teacher as bowing is quite technical and it's easy to get bad habits. Although I play the viola da gamba, which uses an underhand bow technique (Simpson or Forqueray), it's not quite the same as DB German bow. For cello, I play normal overhand (French) style, which will be very similar to DB - but I am sure that there will be differences.  

[Jakester]

22 hours ago, mybass said:

Play which is easiest.

Therein lies the rub - I find one easier for somethings, the other for other things!

 

21 hours ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

It is really important to keep your hand relaxed - it takes quite a lot of practice with french bow to get the hang of it, and getting tired is perfectly normal (based on my personal experience), take lots of breaks, and practice little and often and you will make progress.

 

Yep, this is something I'm really struggling with. I seem to tense up straightway. I don't think I can have the bow grip right at all, though I've looked at various vids and have a copy of the Simandel book. 

 

21 hours ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

get a good teacher - you really don't want to bake in bad form at this stage.

 

Yep, I'm really struggling to find a teacher. Two local teachers just didn't respond when I contacted them, and the third said he isn't taking on new pupils. Ah well, I will keep looking!

 

DB isn't ever going to be my main instrument - bass is itself my second instrument so DB is 3rd/4th, but it'd be nice to develop a bit more facility with it!

[zbd1960]

I find that for most of my teachers aren't nearby - my singing teacher is 35 miles away and is about to move to being over 50... 😕 At least my cello teacher is nearer! For instruments like DB you may have to go further as there will be fewer of them. Also, I've found that if you're using e-mail links from web site like 'musicteachers' they could be out-of-date or they're not being forwarded. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by zbd1960

[haruki]

My experience was that when I started bowing I found German easier - it  felt a more relaxed hand position and I could hold it for longer.  Somebody told me its common for people who migrate from bass guitar to prefer German.   My teacher used French bow and we got on fine....

 

But I kept trying the French bow - as it seemed better for quicker more agile passages-  and after about 18m its sort of clicked and I could hold it for longer without it hurting.  I now play with French bow in local orchestra and it just seems natural.

 

So I'd say - go with what seems most comfortable to you...

 

[NickA]

On line lessons by zoom/teams?  Text book? 

 

Important to get that bow hold correct.

 

Probably best to stick with one bow type once you decide which you prefer then you're learning one thing not two things.

 

I've always used french as I started as a cellist, plus all the bassists I know use french.. but theres no advantage of either.

[neilp]

Where are you based? A teacher is probably the ideal way forward, I'll help if I can.

 

It's not "inappropriate" to play both bows, but it's certainly not necessary or even advisable. Realistically, unless you are a full-time player (student or pro) nobody has time to master both German and French. I'm a French bow player, by choice having tried both in my student days. I find the french bow easier to get a relaxed hand and arm, but a lot of the choice is down to personal preference. In the end it may be very slightly easier to draw real power from your bass with a German bow, and very slightly easier to do some of the more delicate and subtle effects and strokes with a French bow, but it can all be done with either! Best advice I can give is pick one and devote all the practice time you have to that one. Either one, you choose!