trigger finger

[alyctes]

I'm beginning to find my index finger on the right hand is sometimes curled tight when I wake up.  So far it's freed up OK without major discomfort.  Has anyone else had this?  (I'm right-handed, and I play fingerstyle or using my thumb.) 

I'm sure this has come up before, but I've searched BC for "trigger finger" and "tendonitis", and not found anything.  The relevant Wikipedia article suggests it will probably go away on its own, eventually.

Edited June 17, 2022 by alyctes
typos

[meterman]

10 minutes ago, alyctes said:

I'm beginning to find my index finger on the right hand is sometimes curled tight when I wake up.  So far it's freed up OK without major discomfort.  Has anyone else had this?  (I'm right-handed, and I play fingerstyle or using my thumb.) 

I'm sure this has come up before, but I've searched BC for "trigger finger" and "tendonitis", and not found anything.  The relevant Wikipedia article suggests it will probably go away on its own, eventually.

This used to happen to me, about 20 years ago, except all fingers on both hands. I had a p/t summer job working for a landscaping firm and had to use a hand held leaf blower every morning for weeks, but my hands were seizing up. I had to pack the landscaping in as I thought it was permanent damage. Probably just the vibrations from the machinery.

 

I had one acupuncture session and did alternate hot and cold packs, but it lasted for months. It went away eventually but it was pretty scary waking up every morning with my hands all curled up and locked.

 

I hope it passes quickly for you.

[Jason Karloff]

Hopefully it's not dupuytren's contracture. But it sounds like it(

Best see a witch doctor and get a professional assessment 

[NancyJohnson]

Search my posts.

 

Don't believe any nonsense about steroids, heat, acupuncture etc.  If the issue is with the A1 pulley, the only thing that will correct things PERMANENTLY is surgery.

 

How do I know?  Here's me after surgery number one of five:

 

[leschirons]

I had De Quervains tendosynovitus. 

Severe pain at the bass of the thumb when turning your wrist, gripping anything etc. Also had trigger thumb. Both hands.

 

Actually only saw someone when it got to the point of not being able to play. I'd already had to do two gigs with my fretting hand over the top of the neck. That's weird.

 

Anyway, saw a specialist and had two cortisone injections in the left bass of the thumb and told to rest it for two weeks. The right hand sorted itself due to not playing but the jabs really worked for my left hand.  It's never come back but to be fair, I've not played much since moving back to the UK so it was definitely down to the huge number of gigs I  was doing. 

Get proper medical advice asap,  and it will get sorted. Good luck.

 

 

[Mottlefeeder]

I've had trigger finger in my fretting hand fourth finger and in my plucking hand third finger. Cotisone injections helped for a while, but it was the minor op that fixed them. In through the palm, sort the tendon, keep it still for a few days, and light duties for a few weeks. Sorted.

David

 

[alyctes]

Thanks, folks.  It's not major, at present.  I'll feed back as things proceed.

[gjones]

On 17/06/2022 at 22:05, alyctes said:

Thanks, folks.  It's not major, at present.  I'll feed back as things proceed.

I had the same thing. I now tape the finger up at night to stop me curling my hand into a fist. It seems to have done the trick and I now have no more trigger finger.

 

Hope yours has not got any worse.

[alyctes]

27 minutes ago, gjones said:

I had the same thing. I now tape the finger up at night to stop me curling my hand into a fist. It seems to have done the trick and I now have no more trigger finger.

 

Hope yours has not got any worse.

 

Thanks.  It's maybe a little bit worse, but nothing major.

[Dan Dare]

I've had the same issue with the middle/longest finger on my right hand intermittently over the last year. It's curled when I wake and have to pull it to straighten it. I flex it a few times after I have done so and it's fine for the rest of the day.

 

It's not Dupuytren's, as far as I can see, which is permanent. Ther is no thickening of or lump in the tissue/tendons in my palm, which you normally get with Dupuytren's as the tendon shortens, pulling the finger into the palm.

 

It comes and goes and is worse when I do a lot of work that requires me to grip with the hand (which I suppose one would expect). I put it down to age (70 next year) and advancing decrepitude. I love getting old, but I suppose it's better than the alternative.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Dan Dare

[Old Horse Murphy]

It can be caused by stress as you tense your grip when you sleep. If I'm particularly worked up I often experience this.  

[Boodang]

When you play, at what angle is your wrist? Playing with a straight wrist will at least stop any further damage. Resting your forearm on the bass body is usually the culprit for a bad wrist angle.

[Dan Dare]

On 11/09/2022 at 09:49, Old Horse Murphy said:

It can be caused by stress as you tense your grip when you sleep. If I'm particularly worked up I often experience this.  

 

Could well be. I'm not the world's most laid-back or stress-free person.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

On 17/06/2022 at 17:24, alyctes said:

I'm beginning to find my index finger on the right hand is sometimes curled tight when I wake up.  So far it's freed up OK without major discomfort.  Has anyone else had this?  (I'm right-handed, and I play fingerstyle or using my thumb.) I'm sure this has come up before, but I've searched BC for "trigger finger" and "tendonitis", and not found anything.  The relevant Wikipedia article suggests it will probably go away on its own, eventually.

I have this in my left ring finger. I've had it for years and at one point it was fully locked towards my palm.

 

I'll respectfully disagree with @NancyJohnson slightly regarding steroids being nonsense. I've had steroid injections twice, once when it was fully locked and another lot mid-physio. The injection hurt like a bar steward. No numbing, just a big a$$ needle straight into the A1 area with lots of poking about to go with it. As uncomfortable as it was, it unlocked it quickly and put me back to about 80% within days. I followed that up with physio (radio therapy) and another round of steroid injections. The problem with the jabs is, which is where @NancyJohnson is kind of right, is that you can't keep having them or you'll end up with a whole load of different issues to bother you.

 

That said, the jabs + physio have kept it at bay. No lock-ups since. The finger is still very stiff in the morning, but it loosens up very quickly. I'm not getting it in the ring finger of my right hand, but so far no worse than the left is at the moment. I fully accept that this is just my experience and everyone is different, so it may not be the same for you.

 

One thing you might want to try is getting a splint for your finger so it's kept straight at night. My physio made me one and it's great.

[alyctes]

7 hours ago, Boodang said:

When you play, at what angle is your wrist? Playing with a straight wrist will at least stop any further damage. Resting your forearm on the bass body is usually the culprit for a bad wrist angle.

 

Thanks for this.  I tend to play mostly with my thumb nowadays, but I'll pay attention to the angle.

[alyctes]

9 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I have this in my left ring finger. I've had it for years and at one point it was fully locked towards my palm.

 

I'll respectfully disagree with @NancyJohnson slightly regarding steroids being nonsense. I've had steroid injections twice, once when it was fully locked and another lot mid-physio. The injection hurt like a bar steward. No numbing, just a big a$$ needle straight into the A1 area with lots of poking about to go with it. As uncomfortable as it was, it unlocked it quickly and put me back to about 80% within days. I followed that up with physio (radio therapy) and another round of steroid injections. The problem with the jabs is, which is where @NancyJohnson is kind of right, is that you can't keep having them or you'll end up with a whole load of different issues to bother you.

 

That said, the jabs + physio have kept it at bay. No lock-ups since. The finger is still very stiff in the morning, but it loosens up very quickly. I'm not getting it in the ring finger of my right hand, but so far no worse than the left is at the moment. I fully accept that this is just my experience and everyone is different, so it may not be the same for you.

 

One thing you might want to try is getting a splint for your finger so it's kept straight at night. My physio made me one and it's great.

 

Thanks.  I will see about a splint.

[alyctes]

A not-very-interesting update:  It's more or less stable.  I have a suspicion it's getting slightly worse but I can't be sure yet.

[NancyJohnson]

As I've had a few operations because of this condition/affliction I suppose a bit if clarity is required. 

 

Every tendon on your hands that controls finger movement passes through an A1 pulley, essentially a circle of cartledge/gristle in the middle of your palm.  (imagine this to be similar to your ears or those hard bits you get in chicken wings.)  The pulley can enlarge ALL OVER, thus becoming pronounced on your palm and also squeezing the tendon, causing the finger to trigger/lock.  Also it's genetic.  It has nothing to do with how you play or how you sleep.

 

No amounts of splints, steroids or snake oil will cause the pulley to somehow revert back to how it was pre-enlargement.  It will not shrink back.  It will not get better on its own.  It will not get better without intervention (which is a small operation under local anesthetic to cut the pulley to allow it to open up and allow free tendon movement).  Steroid shots will, as Warren inferred- only give temporary relief (my doctor - Charles Pailthorpe (look him up) - said it's just like greasing a door hinge, WD-40 will work for a bit, but the squeak will come back).

 

If it's causing you an issue, go to a doctor now and get a referral.  If you're happy with it as it is and really looking forward to it getting so bad that your finger simply won't straighten unless you pull it straight with your other hand, then leave it be and take joy from the cursing you'll be doing because you wished you'd got off your lazy derrières and followed my instructions several years beforehand.

 

Honestly, I have the t-shirt and I'll probably be getting two more t-shirts in the next year or so.  (I'm trying for the full set.)

 

Trust me, please.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Completely respect what you’ve been through Paul, but it doesn’t really explain how I’ve managed to go from fully locked to condition more or less abated for the last couple of years. I’m not for one minute suggesting it’s gone, because I know it hasn’t, but I’ve gone from not working/not being able to hold anything in my left hand/certainly not being able to play a bass to where I am now with the treatment I described. I guess all I’m saying is some people are faced with surgery with no other options and others somehow manage.

 

One of the things that puzzles me is why I only get it in my ring fingers. Not that I’m feeling left out you understand 😂.

[NancyJohnson]

10 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

One of the things that puzzles me is why I only get it in my ring fingers. Not that I’m feeling left out you understand 😂.

 

I've had one thumb and middle fingers on both hands.  The little finger on my right hand locks overnight and triggers for a bit first thing in the morning.  The little one on my left hand is just displaying the same signs, but it's very slight.  Interestingly, my index fingers are unaffected.

 

My doctor said as he'd fixed enough of these he thought he'd have been able to work out a pattern as to who is susceptible to the condition.  He did ask me whether I had any Nordic ancestry (no!).

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've had one thumb and middle fingers on both hands.  The little finger on my right hand locks overnight and triggers for a bit first thing in the morning.  The little one on my left hand is just displaying the same signs, but it's very slight.  Interestingly, my index fingers are unaffected.

My doctor said as he'd fixed enough of these he thought he'd have been able to work out a pattern as to who is susceptible to the condition.  He did ask me whether I had any Nordic ancestry (no!).

That's weird that some fingers get it and some don't. I can't imagine what it must be like having it in your thumbs. I'd be dropping things all over the place.

Have you experienced any of the so called 'banjo-ing' on the effect tendon across the A1 joint from your surgeries? That was a worry for me if I was heading down that path.

Interesting about the Nordic thing. I know my Mum went back quite a way on her side of the family and didn't mention anything Nordic.

[NancyJohnson]

24 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

That's weird that some fingers get it and some don't. I can't imagine what it must be like having it in your thumbs. I'd be dropping things all over the place.

Have you experienced any of the so called 'banjo-ing' on the effect tendon across the A1 joint from your surgeries? That was a worry for me if I was heading down that path.

Interesting about the Nordic thing. I know my Mum went back quite a way on her side of the family and didn't mention anything Nordic.

 

The left thumb was the first one...I had no idea what the problem was at the time; the joint just below the thumbnail was locked 90° and would loosen up or become unlocked if I pulled it straight.  Pailthorpe had a feel of the joint at the base of the thumb and said something on the lines of it being a beauty and the biggest pulley issue he'd felt on a thumb.  I think he was probably chomping at the bit to cut it open.  (The photo up the thread was after that surgery; he literally cut about an inch in the wrinkle line around the base of the thumb to free it up.)

 

I'm not familiar with the banjo-term!  If it helps, I've not suffered any long term issues after each procedure. 

 

The Nordic thing is (apparently) something to do with Dupuytren Conjecture, which is more about the fingers becoming bent due to the hardening of tissue in the fingers.  It was allegedly genetically common in Vikings (or if you like Swedish/Norweigan/Danish seafarers) - I have no idea how they know this - and supposedly as they pillaged and inter-bred with other non-Viking indigenous northern Europeans the condition spread and still exists 1,000 to 1,200 years later.

[Staggering on]

Conjecture? Contracture? Looks like auto correct strikes again...at least that's my conjecture.😊

 

That aside, I have some issues with with a couple of fingers in each hand and one of my thumbs and I am learning a lot from the posts in this topic. Thanks all.👍

25 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

The left thumb was the first one...I had no idea what the problem was at the time; the joint just below the thumbnail was locked 90° and would loosen up or become unlocked if I pulled it straight.  Pailthorpe had a feel of the joint at the base of the thumb and said something on the lines of it being a beauty and the biggest pulley issue he'd felt on a thumb.  I think he was probably chomping at the bit to cut it open.  (The photo up the thread was after that surgery; he literally cut about an inch in the wrinkle line around the base of the thumb to free it up.)

 

I'm not familiar with the banjo-term!  If it helps, I've not suffered any long term issues after each procedure. 

 

The Nordic thing is (apparently) something to do with Dupuytren Conjecture, which is more about the fingers becoming bent due to the hardening of tissue in the fingers.  It was allegedly genetically common in Vikings (or if you like Swedish/Norweigan/Danish seafarers) - I have no idea how they know this - and supposedly as they pillaged and inter-bred with other non-Viking indigenous northern Europeans the condition spread and still exists 1,000 to 1,200 years later.

 

[stevie]

I had trigger thumb about five years ago. It was painful and really uncomfortable. The doctor suggested a steroid injection, which did the trick and it hasn't come back.