Music store blues

[Burns-bass]

Bricks and mortar Music shops have a tough job. So many people use them to try something out then buy it cheaper online - I’ve done this in the past, but not now as I’m nice. 

 

Like any business, service can vary, and while some people love an attentive (obsequious) salesperson, whereas others (like me) prefer to be left alone.

 

I’ll normally give shops a couple of goes. John Lewis, on the other hand can do one. I went in to buy a new oven (£3,000 SMEG range) and the sales assistant looked me up and down and heard my kids rattling around and walked away without chatting with me and asking me any questions. Thankfully, my local store had one in stock and did it cheaper than JL.

 

 

 

[binky_bass]

8 hours ago, dclaassen said:

Those guys will never get a chance to make a better impression…just the way I’m wired. 

I think that way of looking at things will only lead to you missing out. People can have bad days, the salesperson you spoke to might not be representative of the rest of the business - my experience with Peach was very different. If you write off every business you have a bad experience with then you'll just end up limiting your own options. What about giving them a call/sending an email to explain the situation, they might be apologetic and want another chance at your business? 

 

Things can go wrong, it's how a business chooses to act when an issue has been brought to their attention that tells me whether the business is one I'd want to do business with or not. Just my two cents! 

[dclaassen]

16 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

I think that way of looking at things will only lead to you missing out. People can have bad days, the salesperson you spoke to might not be representative of the rest of the business - my experience with Peach was very different. If you write off every business you have a bad experience with then you'll just end up limiting your own options. What about giving them a call/sending an email to explain the situation, they might be apologetic and want another chance at your business? 

 

Things can go wrong, it's how a business chooses to act when an issue has been brought to their attention that tells me whether the business is one I'd want to do business with or not. Just my two cents! 

I did send an email, got the standard response. I am very happy with my local shop, and will support them. I understand your point, but there are a lot of great shops out there, and I’ve spent enough time in retail early in my life that I will, whenever possible, refuse to accept bad service or bad behavior in someone who is in the position of taking my hard earned money. You don’t a high level of basic good manners any more, largely because we tolerate bad behavior and rude attitudes. And, my experience is that a clerk or salesperson is only reflecting the attitudes of their boss.

 

 I am really appreciative of this forum and all the varied points of view…

[binky_bass]

1 hour ago, dclaassen said:

I did send an email, got the standard response. I am very happy with my local shop, and will support them. I understand your point, but there are a lot of great shops out there, and I’ve spent enough time in retail early in my life that I will, whenever possible, refuse to accept bad service or bad behavior in someone who is in the position of taking my hard earned money. You don’t a high level of basic good manners any more, largely because we tolerate bad behavior and rude attitudes. And, my experience is that a clerk or salesperson is only reflecting the attitudes of their boss.

 

 I am really appreciative of this forum and all the varied points of view…

If you tried to approach them again and they didn't give much of a hoot then I'd definitely have the same attitude as you! I totally agree that its not worth chasing a business that doesn't appear to value your custom after a second chance. We had a great little shop just a few minutes away, unfortunately they closed down during COVID. They had excellent service and were are extremely helpful, shame more places aren't like they were... 

 

As a side note, PMT in Romford have shown some fantastic service on a few occasions, good to see a big business with great service.

Edited June 24, 2022 by binky_bass

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

1 hour ago, dclaassen said:

I did send an email, got the standard response. I am very happy with my local shop, and will support them. I understand your point, but there are a lot of great shops out there, and I’ve spent enough time in retail early in my life that I will, whenever possible, refuse to accept bad service or bad behavior in someone who is in the position of taking my hard earned money. You don’t a high level of basic good manners any more, largely because we tolerate bad behavior and rude attitudes. And, my experience is that a clerk or salesperson is only reflecting the attitudes of their boss.

 

 I am really appreciative of this forum and all the varied points of view…

 

I'm not defending bad service, these are just observations.

 

By walking away without speaking to the manager, you have accepted bad service in my opinion.

 

Also, Peach isn't the sort of shop you can walk down the High Street and think 'oh, I'll just pop in there and have a browse around'. You have to make an effort to get there, whether by car or by public transport and to do that, I would suggest, a visit to their web site to check opening hours would have been advisable. In doing that, it clearly says 'We are open for pre-booked appointments only. To learn more about our appointment system, click the button to the right'. Clicking the button takes you to this video which explains why.

 

 

It's 10 minutes long and you don't have to watch all of it, but the first two minutes tells you why this system has been put in place and it makes complete sense. Make an appointment and you're guaranteed to have someone there that will help you. That said, looking at their current bass inventory, there isn't much there to get excited about. Awash with Fender's and little else. They even used to have a decent selection of CS basses, but now only two 🤷‍♂️.

 

Not great comms from them on your arrival, but it must get a bit tedious dealing with people who just turn up several times a day without booking. When I went there (without an appointment) I read the notice on the door and did think twice about ringing the bell. I did ring at the door and my opening line was an apology, which probably went a long way to dissolving any potential negative response. The guy said he would see what he could and after a couple of minutes I was allowed in and explained that I had specifically come to see two not inexpensive instruments which he went and brought to a practice room for me.

 

Life is too short to hold grudges over trivialities like this.

[dclaassen]

All due respect…it’s not trivial, especially in this post-covid time. My local bank now has a very limited timeframe when you can actually deal with a teller. Many services are moving to online-only. Fast food outlets are using online and kiosk ordering instead of employing people to take orders. Restaurants and pubs are putting qr codes on the tables and just pointing to them as they breeze past. The whole concept of customer service is pivoting toward the impersonal and the cold, digital interface. Also, I can walk into Tiffany, Vitton, etc without being quizzed about my intentions or making an appointment. I’m just not comfortable with any of it and, yes, I’m a boomer.

[Guest]

I worked in music instrument retail for a number of years. When I left the industry after working my way up to assistant manager, I was earning £14Kpa. Salaries are pretty much the same different 25 years later. You’ll get more money in pretty much any other profession.

Despite the potential high price of instruments, the profit margins are generally tiny, which is why what few shops are left tend to do commission sales as other than the necessary business insurance (which the shop should have anyway) there’s nothing for them to buy and the margins are way better than new instrument sales. I don’t have current figures but after discounting I recall a US standard P bass in the early 2000s returned less than £100 profit, and to stock certain brands you’ll be in the hole for a couple of hundred grand in business loans to cover everything you are mandated to buy in. This, the waning interest in musical instruments among kids and the move to online has pretty much done for MI bricks and mortars shops in the UK. 
 

Hence the old cliché about the quickest way to make a small amount of money in the MI retail industry is to start with a large amount of money

 

Where there’s no money you just won’t attract good service staff - people prepared to accept low salaries (or have no choice) have so many other options - so what remains is a mixed bag of wannabe/failed musicians and a fair amount of people who are probably unemployable elsewhere. Many of the remaining shops are run by one person with zero to a few helpers - so you’re very much at the mercy of the way the owner runs the shop. Modern management, training and service principles just don’t apply to the MI industry in the UK and never really have. 
 

Now compare this to a shop like Thomann - huge, turning over nearly €1B pa and run like any other professional business. They’ve been able to tap into a global marketplace and aside from one or two br**it niggles the service I’ve had from them has been stellar. UK shops just cannot compete and I seriously doubt they’d ever be able to establish something similar in the UK as the market really is tiny in comparison.

 

None of the above is intended to excuse poor service, just to illustrate the reality of MI retail in the UK.

IMHO there is a place for a small number of boutique shops - but these will succeed or fail on good customer service because places like Thomann are more often than not better at communicating, have a much wider range, are cheaper and only marginally slower with delivery - and their webshop actually works!
 

[Franticsmurf]

4 hours ago, binky_bass said:

Things can go wrong, it's how a business chooses to act when an issue has been brought to their attention that tells me whether the business is one I'd want to do business with or not.

This is my philosophy too. It's not good when a problem arises or a mistake is made, but they happen (I've made many in my time). The real character comes through in the way that it is dealt with. Unfortunately, that is usually only apparent when the issue is challenged. I don't like complaining but I will if I think it is justified. Then it is a case of making your point with no emotion and judging the response.

[StickyDBRmf]

See my post in Bass Snobbery. Also I still shop Guitar Center and never saw that salesman again.

[pete.young]

I've been to Peach guitars several times, bought a couple of instruments and attended some of the 'evening with' sessions they run, including Matt Schofield. I've always had good service from them, and since I'm 30 miles away I'd ring them anyway to make sure they were open and had what I was interested in in stock before making the journey. I'd do the same with Bass Direct

 

Although they are not a specialist bass shop, the website lists over 200 basses currently in stock, from Cort, Epiphone, Fender, Ibanez, Jackson, Martin, PRS, Rivolta, Schechter, Squier, Sterling by Musicman, Warwick and Yamaha.

I'd be surprised if many local music shops, or indeed anyone outside the specialist bass shops, can match that.

 

For guitars and guitar amplifiers, the stock they carry is huge, millions of pounds worth. I don't think there can be many actual shops in the UK who can offer similar levels of stock.

 

They have suffered from opportunistic thefts, and I don't blame them for implementing decent security.

[Guest]

BTW, the photos for each bass guitar shown on the Peach website includes a shot of it being weighed eg

 

[dclaassen]

I still disagree. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but the whole “tell us what you are looking for so we can hover and sell it to you” thing just does not work for me. Another comment about getting tired of people coming by unannounced also really puts me off. As I said earlier, I have been in a lot of high end music stores, and have never encountered this “we are just too posh to have anybody just walk in, and btw, you could be a thief” attitude. Not my cup of tea.

[MartenIdo]

Totally feel your pain with those music store blues! It's like they're either super welcoming or just too full of themselves. I had a similar encounter with a store in my area, Peach Music, in Colchester. By appointment only? Seriously? They practically made me feel like an intruder! Needless to say, they won't see a penny from me either. I decided to buy everything I needed at an Irish music shop online. That way, it's much easier.

Edited August 7, 2023 by MartenIdo

[BillyBass]

8 hours ago, MartenIdo said:

Totally feel your pain with those music store blues! It's like they're either super welcoming or just too full of themselves.

Welcome to the forum.  Post a 'hello' in the introductions thread and let everyone get to know who you are.

 

 

[MacDaddy]

On 24/06/2022 at 11:05, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

 

 

Life is too short to hold grudges over trivialities like this.

 

Disagree.

"A bloody good grudge... was like a fine old wine. You looked after it carefully and left it to your children".

©T.Pratchett.

[squire5]

On 23/06/2022 at 07:03, ubit said:

I’ve had nothing but great service from every music shop I’ve tried in Glasgow. These guys know that they don’t sell loads of guitars and almost all of the staff are musicians or at least massive music lovers. The ones I have dealt with genuinely want you to try out guitars because they are exited to share the experience. Maybe I’ve been lucky. 

Used to put a lot of business McCormacks of Bath Street's way back in the early 70s.Bought a RED Marshall stack there.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by squire5

[JoeEvans]

The classic example of this type of thing always used to be Electric Ladyland in Bristol. The guy in there gave the impression that literally anyone short of Jimmy Page wasn't really good enough to be in his shop, and if Page had stepped in he'd have fawned over him but still bitched about him once he'd left.

However, the gradual deterioration of the shop and owner seemed to suggest that there was a mental health component going on over and above the general twattishness, so I wouldn't now want to be too hard on the guy.

[ubit]

On 23/06/2022 at 07:46, binky_bass said:

I think, they've had a few thefts in recent years including a £10k custom shop PRS 

  How the Hell do you Knick a guitar? Apart from smash and grab, I can’t see how you can sneak one out of a shop. 

[Dad3353]

Thief steals guitar from shop ...

 

... and another ...

Edited August 4, 2023 by Dad3353

[AndyTravis]

3 hours ago, ubit said:

  How the Hell do you Knick a guitar? Apart from smash and grab, I can’t see how you can sneak one out of a shop. 

Used to stop it regularly when I worked in a shop.

 

There are organised groups of thieves who target guitar shops.

 

And…opportunistic passing addicts.

 

I don’t miss that element of the job.

 

We weren’t paid enough to deal with it, but by god did we get it in the neck if it did happen…

[dclaassen]

25 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Used to stop it regularly when I worked in a shop.

 

There are organised groups of thieves who target guitar shops.

 

And…opportunistic passing addicts.

 

I don’t miss that element of the job.

 

We weren’t paid enough to deal with it, but by god did we get it in the neck if it did happen…

Okay….but I have a hard time with any establishment that assumes I’m a thief and acts accordingly.

[AndyTravis]

13 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

Okay….but I have a hard time with any establishment that assumes I’m a thief and acts accordingly.

Understand that.

 

I wasn’t responding to your personal circumstance, I was responding to what @ubit had said.

 

I wouldn’t lose sleep over it - I just wouldn’t shop there or even consider buying from them in future.

 

give it another 5 or so years and there most likely won’t be any guitar/bass shops left to visit, for reasons outlined above.

 

crap margins, aging customer demographic, business rates, online business models with lower overheads - etc.

 

But the elitist behaviour exhibited by some people in some stores is mental, I never understood it when I was in the trade - even less so now that the MI retail trade is dying.

 

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, AndyTravis said:

Understand that.

 

I wasn’t responding to your personal circumstance, I was responding to what @ubit had said.

 

I wouldn’t lose sleep over it - I just wouldn’t shop there or even consider buying from them in future.

 

give it another 5 or so years and there most likely won’t be any guitar/bass shops left to visit, for reasons outlined above.

 

crap margins, aging customer demographic, business rates, online business models with lower overheads - etc.

 

But the elitist behaviour exhibited by some people in some stores is mental, I never understood it when I was in the trade - even less so now that the MI retail trade is dying.

 

That’s the truth of it 

[dclaassen]

9 hours ago, Beedster said:

That’s the truth of it 

Yup…sadly.

[Phil Starr]

Surely the thing to concern us is the disappearance of physical music shops. Nearly all the help I’ve had over the years has been from people who were performing musicians who were using the job to fund their passion. They were a great place to just hang out too. Now almost all of those shops have gone.

 

This hasn’t been helped by decisions made far away by the likes of Gibson and Fender not to supply small outfits. This isn’t just true of guitar and bass either. Most of the shops selling and supporting classical instruments are disappearing too. The days when you could pop out and buy an odd string, replacement skin for your banjo and new reeds for a sax are gone. Sadly that also loses the advice and support these shops used to provide. To be part of a community of musicians. Not to mention the chance to physically try instruments out.