Bobo_Grimmer Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I've been reading some of the older threads about Ear protection and i think it's a real important subject that should always be in our minds so i thought i'd start yet another (but on a slightly different note) I've been in battle with my ER20's for a long time now. i need to be using them because i'm only young and i enjoy music production just as much as live playing and for that i really need my ears. The ER20's are very good and take the level of everything down but keep it all level and clear. But.... While i have them in the bass seams louder. I understand about head room but this thought of the bass being too loud roll's around in my head while we play and it distracts me from listening to what everyone else is playing and prevents me from relaxing into the groove. So normally half way through a jam i'll stop and be throwing them aside in frustration. Does anyone else find this sort of thing while using ear plugs? Or am i just weird? P.S. I did think that maybe it's the protection that i'm using that might be the problem. I've seen on , [url="http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/drums/drum-accessories/er-custom-hearing-protectors-199201/review?src=nl&attr=150409"]music radar[/url] , some custom hearing protection but they are a little expensive. Edited April 15, 2009 by Bobo_Grimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapolpora Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 [quote name='Bobo_Grimmer' post='463255' date='Apr 15 2009, 06:17 PM']I've been reading some of the older threads about Ear protection and i think it's a real important subject that should always be in our minds so i thought i'd start yet another (but on a slightly different note) I've been in battle with my ER20's for a long time now. i need to be using them because i'm only young and i enjoy music production just as much as live playing and for that i really need my ears. The ER20's are very good and take the level of everything down but keep it all level and clear. But.... While i have them in the bass seams louder. I understand about head room but this thought of the bass being too loud roll's around in my head while we play and it distracts me from listening to what everyone else is playing and prevents me from relaxing into the groove. So normally half way through a jam i'll stop and be throwing them aside in frustration. Does anyone else find this sort of thing while using ear plugs? Or am i just weird? P.S. I did think that maybe it's the protection that i'm using that might be the problem. I've seen on , [url="http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/drums/drum-accessories/er-custom-hearing-protectors-199201/review?src=nl&attr=150409"]music radar[/url] , some custom hearing protection but they are a little expensive.[/quote] I'm a saxophone player first and foremost and I have a similar problem with earplugs. With them in, I hear my sound through the bones in my head more than my sound traveling through air to my ears, and it makes my own sound even louder and unpleasant. I hate playing with earplugs - it changes the way I hear and the the way I play, but it's very necessary with some of the bands I work with. I've never tried using the earplugs with bass yet as I don't gig on bass that much. As it's an amp making all the noise and not your physical self I'm surprised - I'll try it myself and see if I notice the same thing. I'm just about to get a pair of those ACS earplugs. They work but reducing the db level rather than blocking out sound. Other horn players I know who have them speak highly of them. I'll post back when I've receive them and have gigged with them and let you know what I think. They take about a month to be made so it wont be until the end of May. After trying everything else (including the obvious one of trying to get the band to play quieter) I thought I'd give them ago after I got thinking about all the (tens of) thousands of ££ I've spent on instruments and studio equipment over the years but only a few quid on protecting my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo_Grimmer Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 [quote name='lapolpora' post='463296' date='Apr 15 2009, 06:48 PM']I've never tried using the earplugs with bass yet as I don't gig on bass that much. As it's an amp making all the noise and not your physical self I'm surprised - I'll try it myself and see if I notice the same thing. I'm just about to get a pair of those ACS earplugs. They work but reducing the db level rather than blocking out sound. Other horn players I know who have them speak highly of them. I'll post back when I've receive them and have gigged with them and let you know what I think. They take about a month to be made so it wont be until the end of May. After trying everything else (including the obvious one of trying to get the band to play quieter) I thought I'd give them ago after I got thinking about all the (tens of) thousands of ££ I've spent on instruments and studio equipment over the years but only a few quid on protecting my ears.[/quote] cheer's dude, I look forward to hearing about the ACS plugs. (I'm really thinking of getting some myself.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I've used ER20s for a few years now and I love them [b]because[/b] they make my bass stand out in the onstage mix. Don't be afraid to turn your amp down if you feel you need to, the sound engineer certainly won't mind! It does take my bands a while to adapt to having a bassist who doesn't play on 10 all the time though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo_Grimmer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 [quote name='peted' post='464326' date='Apr 16 2009, 07:43 PM']I've used ER20s for a few years now and I love them [b]because[/b] they make my bass stand out in the onstage mix. Don't be afraid to turn your amp down if you feel you need to, the sound engineer certainly won't mind! It does take my bands a while to adapt to having a bassist who doesn't play on 10 all the time though [/quote] Hum yeah maybe i should turn down just a tad more than the norm. I find it lucky to have, but at the same time a curse, to have a big bass rig. I have thought of getting some smaller cabs thinking that maybe if i move less air that might help. But i don't know if i can part with my old TE 8X10"......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I've had ER20s attached to my car keys for a couple of months now. I've tried using them a couple of times and have taken them out after the first couple of songs because of the mess it makes of the mix in my head. I talk quiet as a mouse (apparently) because all the sound vibrating through the bones in my head is magnified by the earplugs. However, after last nights ridiculously loud gig, i couldn't get to sleep because of the cacophonous ringing in my ears. So, i've made a pledge to myself to use them no matter what from now on. I've got a bit of a question about those foam earplugs (the bright coloured ones you have to squish first). Do they offer the same sort of protection as the ER20s? and does the mix sound any more..... realistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I've used the ER20s for a couple of years now. A bit weird at first, had to take off the cord that came with them as I kept pulling them out when I moved. They do sound pretty strange until you get used to them. I found the opposite to everyone and actually had to turn [i][b]up[/b][/i] slightly. I can hear everything better than I used to. When I go anywhere loud I have to wear them as i cannot handle loud noise anymore whether it be a pub/ club/concert/motor racing/whatever. I find I can hear people talking easier and don't have to shout to be heard. I've thought about going to Specsavers and getting a custom set made which come in at around 160 clams but I actually like the sound I get just now and fear that they may sound completely different and end up going back to my £10 ER20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo_Grimmer Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Ha HA! I'm back! Been away sorting the new house and stuff but i'm back online and typing. Well i had my first gig this year on wednesday night with no smoking and ear plugs. It went really well! I got down to the pub and the jamming had started. There were a few guy's up there playing and quite a few people around out side smoking and looking thro the window's. I like these little mid week seshes cus all i need bring is my bass and a lead so it makes for a hassle free night. So what i decided to do was stick my ear plugs in about half hour before we were going on and it really worked. We got up there and plugged in, tuned up and started bashing through some tunes and it sounded great. I could hear better than normal and everything was at a really nice level. I couldn't believe the amount of people that came in and stayed to see us. Everyone was cheering and the night felt really great. I'm feeling a bit better about stuffing the plugs in now and although some lower semi's are still a bit hard to tell sometimes i'm battling on and doing ok. Oh yeah and you can hear people when they talk to you too. Even over the band that might be playing. Tis great! I'm still interested in those more pricey plug's but maybe when i've got a bit more brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I used to use ER20s but I had the same problem as you. They cut the high frequencies a lot more than the low ones creating a muffled, muddy mix. From your last post you sound like you're getting used to them which is good. I couldn't get used to them so I splashed out on the custom moulded ER15s (£160 from Specsavers). I couldn't believe the difference. The ER15s are in a different league altogether. They cut all frequencies much more evenly than the ER20s creating a more natural mix. It now sounds like I'm not wearing earplugs and the band have just turned down. I find them a lot more comfortable too. I found that after about half an hour wearing the ER20s my ears began to itch like crazy. I can wear the ER15s for hours and forget they're there! Best 160 quid I ever spent, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='Ray' post='506100' date='Jun 5 2009, 08:43 AM']I used to use ER20s but I had the same problem as you. They cut the high frequencies a lot more than the low ones creating a muffled, muddy mix. From your last post you sound like you're getting used to them which is good. I couldn't get used to them so I splashed out on the custom moulded ER15s (£160 from Specsavers). I couldn't believe the difference. The ER15s are in a different league altogether. They cut all frequencies much more evenly than the ER20s creating a more natural mix. It now sounds like I'm not wearing earplugs and the band have just turned down. I find them a lot more comfortable too. I found that after about half an hour wearing the ER20s my ears began to itch like crazy. I can wear the ER15s for hours and forget they're there! Best 160 quid I ever spent, honestly. [/quote] Yes! + 1million! For my moulded plugs, I have two sets of filters. One at ER15 (15dB attenuation) and one set at ER25 (25dB attenuation) . I choose which set will suit me best for the environment. If I am going to a gig, or playing with a 'quiet' band then the 15's are perfect. Playing next to a loud drummer.. Mr Lang for example, then the ER25 pair would be the better choice lol! According to my audiologist, I have smaller ear canals than 'the average' which made the cheap ER20 models uncomfortable and not very effective. I felt that I was listening to the music through a layer of rubber.. which may have been the case if they had become pinched in my ear. I have used many of the different types of ear plugs, including 'Docs' & Alpine and nothing comes close to Etymotic Research's moulded plugs. Infact, the Docs were dreadful in comparison.. I didnt mind the Alpines.. and the rest.. well I can't even remember they were so bad! Cut to the chase.. I would SERIOUSLY advise everyone to save up to get a set. Your ears will thank you - especially if you don't end up with tinnitus like some of us! ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Interesting stuff. I've used ER20s for a year or so now. They live on my key ring for those emergencies when the noise level goes through the roof (they're good while driving on the motorway too in my super noisy old Beemer). I find that giving yourself 10 mins to get used to them before the band starts is definitely the way to go - if you haven't done so before then do try this next gig - and there is nothing better than getting to the the end of the gig and popping those suckers out to have gloriously clear and precise hearing restored. As a result of wearing these ear plugs I find I get far less tired on a gig too. Which I didnt expect, amazing how a loud environment wears you out if you're an old fart. Now the downside: I find them immensely uncomfortable after about 45 minutes, they itch and my ears feel really hot and unpleasant. I may well invest in the ER15s if they stop this, when I'm feeling a bit flush. £160 is a huge amount more cash, but if they attenuate even more evenly, and dont feel so much like someone is busy sandpapering your ear canal then I may just have to bite the bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 All ear protection will change the sound, you're putting a filter between you and the source, but in my experience custom ACS plugs change the sound the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmesa Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='dood' post='506144' date='Jun 5 2009, 10:07 AM']nothing comes close to Etymotic Research's moulded plugs...[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo_Grimmer Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Thank you all for they replys. I'm finding alot of us find the same issues with the ER20's, they're good, for 10 quid anyhoo, but there are some thing's that arn't quite right. I think that i may have to put some money aside and invest in some moulded plugs. My ears are very important and i want to gig for as long as i can and produce music for many more years to come so it's going to the music stuff list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't have a flippin clue what model my earplugs are, but they're a something 'pro'. I got em for £20 and I agree with you - they just make things sound wierd, and then I just end up throwing them aside. Its quite annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I always find the bass sounds louder with good earplugs in...but that's because you ain't listening to that large ammount of static distorted guitars have. If you feel your too loud, just turn down. I also get into the "Damn I'm too loud" whilst playing and then try to play softly, only to mess up because it's not normal....so just go up to the amp and turn down...if they tell you to turn up again... then do just that! Might have to look into these though...expensive but...you can't buy more ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo_Grimmer Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 [quote name='iamapirate' post='507673' date='Jun 7 2009, 07:18 PM']I don't have a flippin clue what model my earplugs are, but they're a something 'pro'. I got em for £20 and I agree with you - they just make things sound wierd, and then I just end up throwing them aside. Its quite annoying! [/quote] lol [quote name='Kongo' post='511753' date='Jun 12 2009, 01:19 AM']I always find the bass sounds louder with good earplugs in...but that's because you ain't listening to that large ammount of static distorted guitars have. If you feel your too loud, just turn down. I also get into the "Damn I'm too loud" whilst playing and then try to play softly, only to mess up because it's not normal....so just go up to the amp and turn down...if they tell you to turn up again... then do just that! Might have to look into these though...expensive but...you can't buy more ears![/quote] +1 for more ears. I'm shore the more i play witht them the better things are going to get. I'm going through one of those 'music is tihs, i'm never playing again, i'm selling the lot, kcuf it!' faze's and i can't bare to look at a bass hope i can get some inspiration soon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I put my earplugs in before even entering the venue. One hit of a snare and the damage is already done, plus you need to give your brain time to adjust itself to the new sound levels and different frequency response. If you put them in just before going onstage you will find it weird, even with the more expensive and less coloured ER15s. ~£150 to protect your hearing for the next few decades (I've had this pair since 2001) isn't much is it. Even I spend more on strings in that time and I change my strings annually at most! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='511836' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:54 AM']....£150 to protect your hearing for the next few decades (I've had this pair since 2001) isn't much is it. Even I spend more on strings in that time and I change my strings annually at most....[/quote] +1 for the comparison with the outlay on strings. These days we are all playing way louder than when I first started and right now I take more watts to each gig than my first 2 bands used put together, so that £160 is the best purchase anyone can make after their first bass! You can be mean and eventually deaf or be sensible before you realise you need to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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