Is it me or is the current music scene CRAP!

[Tait]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='463504' date='Apr 15 2009, 10:59 PM']No I don't agree, I'm sure that you (and me for that matter) just haven't discovered the current good stuff yet![/quote]

yeah i know, i was joking, to an extent, anyway.

for instance, last year i went to rock city at least once every 2 months, if not more, and i know that doesnt sound like that often, but i only went to see bands i like. ive not seen a single band this year, and ive been watching the rock city and nottingham arena websites to see if theres anyone i like on. the closest thing is bloc party in october, and im not even a huge fan of them. i just find a lot of modern music doesn't appeal to me. and to add to the point, last gig i saw was paul weller.

and same for buying albums, pretty much every time i went into town, there'd be a CD i'd want (although often i didnt have enough money to actually buy one ) but now i can look for ages through HMV or wherever, and not see a single album that appeals to me.

EDIT: oh, for anyone who doesn't know what im on about, rock city is a venue in nottingham.

Edited April 15, 2009 by LWTAIT

[AM1]

It's nothing to do with age/era and everything to do with old school musicianship. When I was at school, all the musicians I knew were a minimum of grade 5 player and theory, by the time they hit teenage-hood, myself included. Most of us thought nothing of practice regimes that would be considered ridiculous by the internet generation of "become a guru in ten minutes". The internet and the culture of "play music now, take the shortcuts" is killing musicianship in a lot of instances. It is true that the really determined will crack on and do the hard work but there's an equal amount of zero to heros.

I am disgusted by some of the crap that passes as "music" now let alone releasing albums and touring. It's a f***ing joke. I know loads of good musicians that won't go near the music scene now for the very reason that no one will touch them because their image/age/attitude is "wrong" and not marketable enough. It's that "commercialisation" that I hate.

[SteveK]

I have some sympathy with AM1.

A question I've been asking myself for quite some time: Where are the exciting, intelligent arrangements? The killer bass/guitar riffs?
Where are the virtuoso guitarists, drummers, keyboard players etc playing music that excites?

Please don't point me to any jazz. I know there's some great jazz out there and I appreciate a lot of it, but sometimes a man's gotta rock.

Someone, a month or so ago, posted a link to The Edgar Winter Group's "Frankenstein". I seem to remember that the general consensus was, "[i]They don't make 'em like that anymore[/i]" or, maybe, that's just what I thought. Anyway, you get my drift.

Any pointers gratefully received.

Steve

I'll check out the Yeah Yeah Yeahs as suggested.

[AM1]

[quote name='SteveK' post='463521' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:24 PM']I have some sympathy with AM1.

A question I've been asking myself for quite some time: Where are the exciting, intelligent arrangements? The killer bass/guitar riffs?
Where are the virtuoso guitarists, drummers, keyboard players etc playing music that excites?[/quote]

YES!!!

[quote name='SteveK' post='463521' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:24 PM']Please don't point me to any jazz. I know there's some great jazz out there and I appreciate a lot of it, but sometimes....gotta rock.[/quote]

Yeah!! Where's the rock n roll!!! Not this dumbed down pervasive sh*t!

Thank you for getting it!!!!

[escholl]

[quote name='AM1' post='463514' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:14 PM']It's nothing to do with age/era and everything to do with old school musicianship. When I was at school, all the musicians I knew were a minimum of grade 5 player and theory, by the time they hit teenage-hood, myself included. Most of us thought nothing of practice regimes that would be considered ridiculous by the internet generation of "become a guru in ten minutes". The internet and the culture of "play music now, take the shortcuts" is killing musicianship in a lot of instances. It is true that the really determined will crack on and do the hard work but there's an equal amount of zero to heros.

I am disgusted by some of the crap that passes as "music" now let alone releasing albums and touring. It's a f***ing joke. I know loads of good musicians that won't go near the music scene now for the very reason that no one will touch them because their image/age/attitude is "wrong" and not marketable enough. It's that "commercialisation" that I hate.[/quote]


plenty of young musicians who are brilliant and unknown, far too many who are talentless and famous (jonas brothers anyone?) -- surely this has been going on for years though? although i suppose DAW's and DSP have certainly helped the talentless sound good. i'm happy the internet has made music so accessible to people, i was a musician for years but not on the bass till i was 18, and i've learned a lot through the internet -- of course, i've put in the practice as well. our culture of instant gratification is probably not helping anything but overall i think the internet has helped music more than it's hurt it.

i'm not any less disgusted at the state of things, i think i'm just less surprised than you are.

[leschirons]

[quote name='OldGit' post='463403' date='Apr 15 2009, 09:17 PM']I think this has been posted regularly since Henry the VIIIth wrote Greensleeves ...


It's much, much, better for the vast majority - ie the marginal bands and performers as they can get airplay (unsigned bands on national BBC Radio 2 programmes shock!) and release home made CD's for piddlin' amounts of investment.

Commercial will always be commercial and tickets for big names concerts will always be stupidly expensive ... but you can still buy a CD at a non mainstream band's gig for less than a gallon of petrol ... .

There's myspace to get yoru music out there and places like CDNOW where "unsigned" bands can sell their stuff to the world....

Can't see the problem myself ...[/quote]

I think the court is still out on whether he actually wrote this folk song. The style of the composition is apparently later than Henry V111's reign.

Edited April 15, 2009 by leschirons

[dangerboy]

I used to moan that music had gone sour, because I relied on radio, magazines etc to tell me what was going on.

Now I put some effort into finding things, and I discover someone new and amazing a couple of times a month.

Get on MySpace and hunt about. Go to little local nights putting on bands in whatever genre you like. Find record shops with a finger on the pulse (like www.normanrecords.com). Check out recommendations from people who have resisted the lure of money and fickle fashion (eg [url="http://www.godisinthetvzine.co.uk)"]http://www.godisinthetvzine.co.uk)[/url].

And accept that you'll never obsess over a band like you did as a teenager because you've heard so much more now and have so much more music in your life.

My latest obsession is My Disco www.myspace.com/mydiscomydisco I saw them last week. Mind-blowing.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='dangerboy' post='463537' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:45 PM']And accept that you'll never obsess over a band like you did as a teenager because you've heard so much more now and have so much more music in your life.[/quote]
Spot on!!

Plus of course, everything has been done...and done to death. Most everything that 'rock music' has had to offer the world was done by about 1975...

[AM1]

[quote name='dangerboy' post='463537' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:45 PM']And accept that you'll never obsess over a band like you did as a teenager because you've heard so much more now and have so much more music in your life.[/quote]

Wrong wrong wrong! My capacity for obssessing about music is unchanged, I still have the exact same passion for actual music, I just hate the bullshit that surrounds it!

[quote name='dangerboy' post='463537' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:45 PM']My latest obsession is My Disco www.myspace.com/mydiscomydisco I saw them last week. Mind-blowing.[/quote]

Listening now.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='AM1' post='463545' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:54 PM']Wrong wrong wrong! My capacity for obssessing about music is unchanged, I still have the exact same passion for actual music, I just hate the bullshit that surrounds it![/quote]
But the point isn't about your capacity for obsessing AM, it's about the fact that it takes so much more to be amazed now because you've already experienced so much amazing stuff (which is why you obsessed in the first place)..

[AM1]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='463548' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:59 PM']But the point isn't about your capacity for obsessing AM, it's about the fact that it takes so much more to be amazed now because you've already experienced so much amazing stuff (which is why you obsessed in the first place)..[/quote]

Yeah but where is the rest of that amazing stuff!

Where is the modern day equivalent of Led Zep? Black Sabbath?

Killer riffs?

Great basslines?

"Lead" bass playing?

[escholl]

[quote name='SteveK' post='463521' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:24 PM']A question I've been asking myself for quite some time: Where are the exciting, intelligent arrangements? The killer bass/guitar riffs?
Where are the virtuoso guitarists, drummers, keyboard players etc playing music that excites?[/quote]

lots of it present in post-rock and similar genres. just need to look.

lots of it present everywhere, really. again, you just need to look.

[escholl]

[quote name='AM1' post='463550' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:03 AM']Yeah but where is the rest of that amazing stuff!

Where is the modern day equivalent of Led Zep? Black Sabbath?

Killer riffs?

Great basslines?

"Lead" bass playing?[/quote]

now i'm beginning to feel like i've either got very low standards, or the rest of you just aren't looking hard enough. it's out there AM1!

[Guest Lee Van Cleef]

I think the proliferation of the internet has had a negative as well as positive effect. It's made music more available meaning more bands can get their music out there, but at the same time it means a bunch of third rate bands that bring nothing new to the table are getting a slice of the pie thanks to the hype the internet generates.

Do I think music these days is crap? Not at all, but everyone and their mother has a band so there is a greater amount of chaff to filter out before you find good artists. In terms of the truly commercially viable stuff there's quite a bit of retro stuff that's been doing the rounds.. I heard something called Ladyhawke a few weeks ago, regurgitated 80's crap, and when that hits it big then record labels fall over themselves to sign something similar, it's style over substance.

I think my enjoyment of music has survived by developing an interest in different styles of music. I used to be all about the heavy metal, but these days I'm listening to hip-hop, jazz, punk, prog rock, folk, electronic and noise as well my staple diet. It's also been helped by metal itself growing in so many directions that I find more bridges to those other types of music.

[AM1]

[quote name='Lee Van Cleef' post='463555' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:13 AM']I think the proliferation of the internet has had a negative as well as positive effect. It's made music more available meaning more bands can get their music out there, but at the same time it means a bunch of third rate bands that bring nothing new to the table are getting a slice of the pie thanks to the hype the internet generates.

Do I think music these days is crap? Not at all, but everyone and their mother has a band so there is a greater amount of chaff to filter out before you find good artists. In terms of the truly commercially viable stuff there's quite a bit of retro stuff that's been doing the rounds.. I heard something called Ladyhawke a few weeks ago, regurgitated 80's crap, and when that hits it big then record labels fall over themselves to sign something similar, it's style over substance.

I think my enjoyment of music has survived by developing an interest in different styles of music. I used to be all about the heavy metal, but these days I'm listening to hip-hop, jazz, punk, prog rock, folk, electronic and noise as well my staple diet. It's also been helped by metal itself growing in so many directions that I find more bridges to those other types of music.[/quote]

This is an excellent summary of the overall issue and bigger picture.

I have always had diverse tastes but it's just the general lack of musicianship I am lamenting more than anything and I think that is partially down to music "commercialisation". Playing ability is absolutely secondary now to marketability/image.

But getting away from the commercial music scene, where are the great players?

I have not seen one guitarist on youtube who can nail the solo in The Rover with that perfect phrasing on the original. It's ALL about the phrasing. That's what I mean when I say the internet and the "play music now" mentality is killing musicality. That phrasing simply cannot be developed overnight, it takes years and years.

Edited April 15, 2009 by AM1

[Guest Lee Van Cleef]

[quote name='AM1' post='463550' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:03 AM']Where is the modern day equivalent of Led Zep? Black Sabbath?

Killer riffs?

Great basslines?

"Lead" bass playing?[/quote]

Is there also an element of nostalgia to this? People always bang on about The Beatles being the best thing ever, and whilst I appreciate their significance and enjoy their music myself I wouldn't call them the greatest band ever because they don't hold that level of personal importance to me. In 30 or 40 years will people revere Radiohead in the same way or does the elevation of certain bands, such as those you mentioned, to a godlike status make the elevation of successors that much more difficult because part of how much we enjoy music is on that personal level and often involves some level of nostalgia.

The great music being produced now might be entirely electronic in construction, would that affect your acceptance of it into the same echelon as your personal favourites?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Lee Van Cleef

[AM1]

[quote name='Lee Van Cleef' post='463559' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:20 AM']Is there also an element of nostalgia to this? People always bang on about The Beatles being the best thing ever, and whilst I appreciate their significance and enjoy their music myself I wouldn't call them the greatest band ever because they don't hold that level of personal importance to me. In 30 or 40 years will people revere Radiohead in the same way or does the elevation of certain bands, such as those you mentioned, to a godlike status make the elevation of successors that much more difficult because part of how much we enjoy music is on that personal level and often involves some level of nostalgia.[/quote]

No, it's not nostalgia, it's just disappointment at the lack of outstanding musicianship, in most genres.

[quote name='Lee Van Cleef' post='463559' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:20 AM']The great music being produced now might be entirely electronic, would that affect your acceptance of it into the same echelon as your personal favourites?[/quote]

I am open minded enough to be able to recognise great musicianship, whatever the genre, even if I don't like the music, I appreciate on a "musician" level.

For example, I absolutely hate Moby's music, but I can recognise that he is an extremely talented musician.

[OldGit]

[quote name='leschirons' post='463533' date='Apr 15 2009, 11:40 PM']I think the court is still out on whether he actually wrote this folk song. The style of the composition is apparently later than Henry V111's reign.[/quote]


And there you go ..

So AM1 what is the "music scene" of which you speak?
I guess you are talking about rock of some sort? Folk music is full of new talent that plays well. Seth Lakeman for example.

Every kind of music you want is there for the finding. There are forums and specialist websites and a million ways to get stuff.

In the olden days radio one defined the listening taste of the nation's yoof. Now they have loads of other options. Sure the stuff that gets broadcast on mainstream radio is mainstream - that's what it's for, and Radio two is screaming out for a specialist rock programme alongside its cutting edge folk, blues, Mark Lamar and organist entertains programmes but it is out there.

I do laff though when people say they hear no new music but only listen to talk and sport radio.

Where do you expect to hear unknown cutting edge stuff? We used to have to trawl the record shops and hope someone had made album or cassette. now it's just there at the other end of google.

No proper young players?
I went to a blues jam session in my in laws town recently and the 16 and 17 year old guitarists playing were fantastically talented ... No one I knew at school could play like those guys, and they almost certainly could read music and had done their grades, played piano as well etc etc ..
My lad's school is a music haven on Fridays with violins, woodwind and guitars galore, all studying properly and doing their grades.

And then there are the schools of contemporary music like Brighton and Bristol. We never had those in teh days of Yes and Genesis, punk or the one finger synth bands...

It's out there and so are the talented youngsters who are learning properly.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Lee Van Cleef' post='463559' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:20 AM']Is there also an element of nostalgia to this? People always bang on about The Beatles being the best thing ever, and whilst I appreciate their significance and enjoy their music myself I wouldn't call them the greatest band ever because they don't hold that level of personal importance to me. In 30 or 40 years will people revere Radiohead in the same way or does the elevation of certain bands, such as those you mentioned, to a godlike status make the elevation of successors that much more difficult because part of how much we enjoy music is on that personal level and often involves some level of nostalgia.

The great music being produced now might be entirely electronic in construction, would that affect your acceptance of it into the same echelon as your personal favourites?[/quote]
Popular music, ie, Pop Music has been around for a 1,000 odd years.
In the early 60's, The right time, the right set of communication networks, the right economic situation was primed for the right pop group.
The Beatles were the first band that were able to communicate ideas of sex, anarchy, hedonism, murder, mental ilness, black magic, loneliness and all other human emotions and failings/celebrations, into 3 mins of perfect popular music.
The Beatles are without doubt, the most important pop band ever.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='463570' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:48 AM']Popular music, ie, Pop Music has been around for a 1,000 odd years.
In the early 60's, The right time, the right set of communication networks, the right economic situation was primed for the right pop group.
The Beatles were the first band that were able to communicate ideas of sex, anarchy, hedonism, murder, mental ilness, black magic, loneliness and all other human emotions and failings/celebrations, into 3 mins of perfect popular music.
The Beatles are without doubt, the most important pop band ever.[/quote]
slightly off-tangent but a difficult point to disagree with!

[ARGH]

Im sorry to say,Seth Lakeman is coffee table folk...He looks good in a Polo neck all sweaty..and yeah He can belt a tune out..but its not dangerous....its summat for Radio 2 evenings and Sunday mornings.

---------------------

Why muisc went sh*te.....

Heres how it went....from what I can recall.

Grunge killed the guitar solo...the guitar solo is coming back....because ,thank god,kids are not interested in Cobains death anymore.

Producers are pushing musicians to be better again,Kids WANT to be good at playing....regardless of instrument..again FACT!

Some make the effort,some dont,those that do get noticed,those that dont ..wont..simple as...

Trends come,trends go.....

[Jase]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='463570' date='Apr 16 2009, 12:48 AM']Popular music, ie, Pop Music has been around for a 1,000 odd years.
In the early 60's, The right time, the right set of communication networks, the right economic situation was primed for the right pop group.
The Beatles were the first band that were able to communicate ideas of sex, anarchy, hedonism, murder, mental ilness, black magic, loneliness and all other human emotions and failings/celebrations, into 3 mins of perfect popular music.
The Beatles are without doubt, the most important pop band ever.[/quote]

Beats me why anyone would want to communicate ideas of sex in their music, can't think of anything more disgusting!

[Randy_Marsh]

[quote]I have always had diverse tastes but it's just the general lack of musicianship I am lamenting more than anything and I think that is partially down to music "commercialisation". Playing ability is absolutely secondary now to marketability/image.

But getting away from the commercial music scene, where are the great players?[/quote]

I think at the minute the music scene is just exploding if your into it, there are some really talented players coming about with huge skill levels! Protest the hero are all great players. There are plenty of great bands coming about that are only just being noticed - Your Demise, Dead Swans, Architects. I have seen all of these and they are also amazing live. There are good bands out there

But thats only on my concerned genre, the rest seems to be dying a death - as mentioned the jonas brothers, Miley Cyrus, Metro Station. It really is all about marketing now and how disney or any others concerned can sell an image to kids

Edited April 16, 2009 by Randy_Marsh

[YouMa]

I still think music is no way as good as it was,even the kids on here are like remember such and such,and there must best be loads of threads about so and so was so great who is now dead,or in rehab.

Edited April 16, 2009 by YouMa

[MacDaddy]

Another reason bands today don't sound as good is because we are used to listening to them on MP3's.

As I'm sure you all know over 90% of the auditory information of a music recording is lost when compressed to MP3.