Naming vintage Fender

[Bunion]

So that worn in feel 😂🤣

[Reggaebass]

Just now, Mykesbass said:

What's the mojo like on them?

Natural wear and tear 😁

[skankdelvar]

Hi Nilorius,

 

The word 'vintage' means different things in different markets so there's no universal time period for the term. It also means different things to different people; some might have a very specific date range in mind; others just use the term to mean 'old' or 'no longer in production'.

 

With old Fenders there are some very broad definitions which relate to the company's ownership and point to expectations of build quality, desirability and price:

 

1948-1965 - Pre CBS: Seen as 'very good'

1965-1985 - CBS period: Seen as less 'good'. 1970-1981 seen as 'not so good' though 1982-1984 (Fullerton period) seen as return to form
1985-date - Post CBS: Seen as generally better than 1970-1981

 

All the above definitions are subject to caveat and variation. For me, 'vintage' would be pre-CBS but I'm old. 

 

TLDR: If you're selling an old bass to normal people on Gumtree or Craigslist then vintage is fine. If you're selling on an enthusiast's forum like BC don't use the word 'vintage' - just show the date of manufacture and let potential buyers decide for themselves.
 

Edited July 1, 2022 by skankdelvar

[nilorius]

4 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Hi Nilorius,

 

The word 'vintage' means different things in different markets so there's no universal time period for the term. It also means different things to different people; some might have a very specific date range in mind; others just use the term to mean 'old' or 'no longer in production'.

 

With old Fenders there are some very broad definitions which relate to the company's ownership and point to expectations of build quality, desirability and price:

 

1948-1965 - Pre CBS: Seen as 'very good'

1965-1985 - CBS period: Seen as less 'good'. 1970-1981 seen as 'not so good' though 1982-1984 (Fullerton period) seen as return to form
1985-date - Post CBS: Seen as generally better than 1970-1981

 

All the above definitions are subject to caveat and variation. For me, 'vintage' would be pre-CBS but I'm old. 

 

TLDR: If you're selling an old bass to normal people on Gumtree or Craigslist then vintage is fine. If you're selling on an enthusiast's forum like BC don't use the word 'vintage' - just show the date of manufacture and let potential buyers decide for themselves.
 

Thanks, You made me much smarter !

[Munurmunuh]

I misunderstood the thread title and thought it was going to be about giving your basses names. All mine do, mostly because, eg, "Hal" is a lot easier to say / type than TRBX604FM.

 

Re. "antiques" – I was brought up to think the cut off point was the Reform Act of 1832

 

[Crusoe]

38 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

What's the mojo like on them?

Are they knitted from tone wool? Are they good for metal?

[nilorius]

1 minute ago, Crusoe said:

Are they knitted from tone wool? Are they good for metal?

No, only in 70th there where no factories.

[Dad3353]

38 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

...normal people on Gumtree or Craigslist...

 

There are normal people on Gumtree or Craiglist..? 

[Velarian]

21 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

Are they knitted from tone wool? Are they good for metal?

Only the ones knitted in chain mail. 

[Bunion]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

1948-1965 - Pre CBS: Seen as 'very good'

1965-1985 - CBS period: Seen as less 'good'. 1970-1981 seen as 'not so good' though 1982-1984 (Fullerton period) seen as return to form
1985-date - Post CBS: Seen as generally better than 1970-1981

Whoohooo!! Mines ‘very good’ 

 

😝

[Nicko]

Doesn't vintage simply refer to the year in which something was produced.  Thus you can have a 2010 vintage PB, or a 2016 vintage Telecaster.

 

Since Fender serial numbers contain year of manufacture all Fenders would be vintage, just some vintages would be better than others.  Vintage with a capital V may mean something else of course.

 

I have a 1994 vintage Mexican tele and its fantastic although not Vintage.

[Bunion]

25 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Doesn't vintage simply refer to the year in which something was produced.  Thus you can have a 2010 vintage PB, or a 2016 vintage Telecaster.

 

Since Fender serial numbers contain year of manufacture all Fenders would be vintage, just some vintages would be better than others.  Vintage with a capital V may mean something else of course.

 

I have a 1994 vintage Mexican tele and its fantastic although not Vintage.

I think it’s more of a vintage replica but they choose to omit certain wordings as they make them sound like cheap knock-offs 

[Nicko]

Just now, Bunion said:

I think it’s more of a vintage replica but they choose to omit certain wordings as they make them sound like cheap knock-offs 

I think you're missing my point.  It was made in 1994.  It's not Vintage with a V, nor is it a reissue.  A bit like the bottle of cheap bordeaux which is 2020 vintage, vs a Vintage 1964 Chateau Cheval Blanc.

[Bunion]

3 hours ago, Nicko said:

I think you're missing my point.  It was made in 1994.  It's not Vintage with a V, nor is it a reissue.  A bit like the bottle of cheap bordeaux which is 2020 vintage, vs a Vintage 1964 Chateau Cheval Blanc.

I think you might find this is only a wine thing and as soon as they start mixing them they do not have a vintage anymore unless it’s a particularly good grape then certain mixes may use one variety as in certain champagne. 😄

Of course we may describe certain models as ‘flavours’ 

I did however think you were referring to certain Vintage replicas made much later. 

[Velarian]

The whole thing has become confusing and, as has already been mentioned, the terms have become meaningless. If I’m interested in a genuine 1962 precision for example and search for “62 Precision” or “Vintage Precision” I’ll end up with numerous reissues of various flavours but very rarely the real thing. Even terms like Fender Original don’t relate to actual original instruments. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Velarian

[Dad3353]

[Boodang]

On 01/07/2022 at 20:12, BigRedX said:

When you are trying to sell some otherwise terribly put together piece of crap.

Isn't that every Fender?!

[Nicko]

1 hour ago, Bunion said:

I think you might find this is only a wine thing and as soon as they start mixing them they do not have a vintage anymore unless it’s a particularly good grape then certain mixes may use one variety as in certain champagne. 😄

Of course we may describe certain models as ‘flavours’ 

I did however think you were referring to certain Vintage replicas made much later. 

Without wishing to derail.Wine is vintage by virtue of the year in which the grapes were grown and pressed.  You can have crap wine made in any year from a single grape variety.  Or you can have a super expensive wine such as the Cheval Bland I mentioned which happens to be a 1er Cru St Emillion which is a blend of Cabernet Franc, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon.  The '64 sells for around £1000 a bottle (and is probably past it's best now) the 2021 can be had for around £400

 

The point I was trying to make is that vintage is simply the year something was made. It doesn't have to be of a year that is considered good, old or anything else.

[Bunion]

35 minutes ago, Nicko said:

The point I was trying to make is that vintage is simply the year something was made

I’ll look for the ‘vintage’ rather that year button next time I’m searching for a replacement car or other such purchases 👍🏻

[BigRedX]

16 hours ago, Boodang said:

Isn't that every Fender?!

 

Yes but there worse it is, the more the "vintage" tag will be pushed as essentially that is all it has going for it.

 

Back in the late 70s I had a part-time job working for my local musical instrument retailer which was in the process of moving on from being somewhere that sold home organs and cheap beginners violins as well a few budget Japanese copy guitars and basses (think Columbus and Grant) to a shop that catered for the "rock roll" instrument market, and to this end had become dealers for Fender, Ibanez and Aria guitars. 

 

When the Fender guitars and basses arrived pretty much every single one had serious build problems, as well as the fact that many of them were finished in seriously unattractive colours - predominantly sh!t brown and a unfinished looking see-through white. If it had been up to me the whole lot would have gone straight back to Fender with a demand that they send us some properly made and attractively finished instruments by immediate return. Unfortunately that wasn't the case, and the only person who was happy was the free-lance guitar tech who saw lots of additional income from trying to make them playable.

[Nicko]

51 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

predominantly sh!t brown

That's my memory of quite of lot of things in the late 70s to be fair.  Cars, dinner services, clothes etc.  Strangely dog sh!t was quite often white though. 

[Munurmunuh]

18 hours ago, Bunion said:

I think you might find this is only a wine thing and as soon as they start mixing them they do not have a vintage anymore unless it’s a particularly good grape then certain mixes may use one variety as in certain champagne. 😄

Of course we may describe certain models as ‘flavours’ 

I did however think you were referring to certain Vintage replicas made much later. 

 

The vintage means the picking of the grapes. Champagne blend different vintages because they've such a marginal climate - most the time, its better to blend from different years and different vineyards. Almost nowhere else practices this, except for the most miserable plonk. If you want to talk about wine which needs significant time to improve, the term is vin de gard (?sp) It gains additional mojo if the winemaker urinates in it every five years, and scrapes the label.

[BigRedX]

5 hours ago, Nicko said:

That's my memory of quite of lot of things in the late 70s to be fair.  Cars, dinner services, clothes etc.  Strangely dog sh!t was quite often white though. 

 

From my recollection sh!t brown stopped being a fashionable 70s colour by 1977 at the very latest, so these Fenders didn't even have dodgy 70s fashion going for them.