Neck Time - Looking for experience & suggestions

[SamIAm]

Hi,

 

I am now looking to make a neck for my bass guitar project Flo.  I've played with a pine 2x4 and been surprised that the making of the neck (fretless!) was within my limited abilities (Tho it won't win any prizes for look or feel).

 

My goals

• One piece Thru-Neck design
• Headless
• Fretless
• Scale length of 780mm
• Asymmetric profile

 

Wood/Cut

Would appreciate your views on this. Considering Maple or Wenge. Not sure which (if wither) will be 'better' for the fingerboard.

 

Strengthening/Adjustment

I plan to fit a truss rod (from the rear with a) , not sure what length I should use ... I see it is fairly easy to buy a dual action as long as 650mm ... is that suitable or is it too long?  Am I correct that a dual action means I can cut a flat (not curved) slot for the rod?

 

Is there much to guide a choice between hex/slotted/disk adjuster?

 

Given an asymmetric profile, Is it worth installing two truss rods?  I'd like to avoid any twisting of the neck but am concerned this approach might make the neck too heavy; combined with a small/light body I might get some serious neck dive.

 

Is it worth supplementing the truss rod(s) with carbon fibre rods?

Images from https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-truss-rod-installation-and-repair/working-with-carbon-fiber-reinforcement-materials/

 

Finish

Ideally oiled ... is this suitable for back & fingerboard?

 

Source

I've looked and looked and am finding it difficult to identify somewhere good in the UK to buy the blank for the neck, would love your suggestions, ideally a nice looking bit of wood (Where the supplier either provides photos/choice or has a reputation for not sending out nasty stuff) that is already dried to a condition where I can start working it straight away.  Given it will bass-ically (sorry!) be the neck and body of the bass, I am aiming for a blank of 60x100x900mm.

 

There are undoubtedly other things to consider that have not even occurred to me ... I'd love to hear about any tips/suggestions/gotchas.

 

S'manth x

 

[itu]

After buying the truss rod, use a quality grease to the threads. It is easy to oil it before the installation.

 

The truss rod has to be adjusted somehow. Are the neck, the parts and the truss rod fit together? A hole in a wrong place, and you get my point.

 

I like oiled neck, like in my fretless (see my pics). Consider the profile (mine is square). And the side fretmarks are phosphorous.

 

My fretboard is blackwood from Mad Inter (Spain). It is hard and the dust will colour practically everything it touches. Beware.

[3below]

David Dyke https://www.luthierssupplies.co.uk/ElectricG.htm is frequently mentioned by @Andyjr1515 in threads.  I have used 'old' oak and mahogany for necks without problems.  The mahogany was from broken down snooker tables, really old, very stable and a pleasure to work with, £4 for a side that would make a body and neck.  I wish I had bought much more of it at the time.  Maple or Wenge will be fine with flatwound / tapewound strings.  Keeping maple clean in the long term might be an issue (or not if you want roadworn).  From wikipedia:  "The dust produced when cutting or sanding wenge can cause dermatitis similar to the effects of poison ivy and is an irritant to the eyes. The dust also can cause respiratory problems and drowsiness.[citation needed] Splinters are septic."

 

A dual action rod will install in a flat slot.  All types of adjuster appear on basses at all price ranges, choose what you like

 

@Andyjr1515 and @Jabba_the_gut are the masters of finish.  I find Tru oil or Danish Oil very easy, Osmo Polyx wax was incredibly good on an Oak floor I once owned, have never used it on a guitar build though.

 

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, 3below said:

David Dyke https://www.luthierssupplies.co.uk/ElectricG.htm is frequently mentioned by @Andyjr1515 in threads.  I have used 'old' oak and mahogany for necks without problems.  The mahogany was from broken down snooker tables, really old, very stable and a pleasure to work with, £4 for a side that would make a body and neck.  I wish I had bought much more of it at the time.  Maple or Wenge will be fine with flatwound / tapewound strings.  Keeping maple clean in the long term might be an issue (or not if you want roadworn).  From wikipedia:  "The dust produced when cutting or sanding wenge can cause dermatitis similar to the effects of poison ivy and is an irritant to the eyes. The dust also can cause respiratory problems and drowsiness.[citation needed] Splinters are septic."

 

A dual action rod will install in a flat slot.  All types of adjuster appear on basses at all price ranges, choose what you like

 

@Andyjr1515 and @Jabba_the_gut are the masters of finish.  I find Tru oil or Danish Oil very easy, Osmo Polyx wax was incredibly good on an Oak floor I once owned, have never used it on a guitar build though.

 

I tend to use David Dyke because I know that the quality is going to be tip top - but it can be very, very expensive.  The best cut for a one-piece is always said to be quarter sawn @Smanth and, as @3below says, there are a lot of opportunities around in terms of old furniture, timber-yard offcuts, etc..  @Jabba_the_gut uses quite a bit of reclaimed stuff in his builds - Jez?

[tauzero]

I don't think an asymmetric neck is a reason for two truss rods - one of my Seis is asymmetric with one truss rod, no sign of any issue (and Sei necks are pretty shallow). It may also be worth reading through @skelf's ACG topic in the Affiliates section, I'm pretty sure he has a fair few posts about construction and pros and cons of certain woods from a constructor's view (I think he had a mutter about wenge at some point).

[SamIAm]

@3below and @Andyjr1515 ... thank you both!

 

I've spoken to Luthier Supplies, how very helpful they were!

 

They said they can produce a custom cut for me if I send in the details.

 

My discussion tho did pose me a couple of ... points ... for consideration, I wonder if anyone has any pointers.

 

My approach of using a single piece of wood for the neck was questioned, it was suggested that it is more common to glue two or more splices.  Will this result in a superior (stronger or more stable) neck?  I'd prefer to not go to the trouble if it is not significantly better.

 

It was suggested it was more common to use a separate glued on fingerboard, 1) ensuring the strings are sufficiently far from the front of the body to clear the pups was a reason for this as well as 2) hiding the truss rod.

 

In my twiggy prototype, I embedded the pup into the 'body' to provide clearance.

 

2) I plan to use a rear-installed truss rod with a skunk stripe.  I foresee that the 'finishing' of the stripe can be incorporated into my working the rear of the neck to form the profile.

 

Are either of these choices a ... mistake?

 

S'manth x

 

[3below]

Ben Crowe Crimson guitars video is informative.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHV_LN8F1Qw  Others may have different views.  IMO one of the key aspects is to use well seasoned wood. Cut, glue, rough shape whatever and then give it a few days before doing more.  I have had well seasoned wood move after cutting / thicknessing.   This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU_vdW_HgI0  shows the joys of multi laminate construction aka greased piglet wrestling.  Clamps are your best friend, you can never have enough

 

I can see how using a three (or 5) piece laminate neck might aid the truss rod channel and skunk stripe construction by removing the need for a routed channel.  Make the centre laminate just slightly wider than the truss rod.  Cut out the truss rod slice to the correct depth, length and profile.  Keep the 'cut off' slice and cut it down to create the skunk stripe.   The ends of the rod where the threads are can often be wider than the main rod and may have dots of weld that need smoothing down.  You will have to ponder that a bit.  Hopefully the pictures explain.

 

 

 

 

 

[SamIAm]

Thank you @3below, both videos were informative (and I've now queued up a list of others by Ben Crowe to also watch).

 

Very cool idea about leveraging the laminate layer for the truss rod ... if I do laminate then I will use that approach.  After looking at loads of necks on google I'm becoming less inclined simply because I prefer the visual appearance of a single piece fingerboard.

 

S'manth x

[SamIAm]

On 07/07/2022 at 00:48, tauzero said:

I don't think an asymmetric neck is a reason for two truss rods - one of my Seis is asymmetric with one truss rod, no sign of any issue (and Sei necks are pretty shallow). It may also be worth reading through @skelf's ACG topic in the Affiliates section, I'm pretty sure he has a fair few posts about construction and pros and cons of certain woods from a constructor's view (I think he had a mutter about wenge at some point).

Thanks @tauzero, the AGC thread is excellent reading!

 

S'manth x

[Andyjr1515]

22 hours ago, Smanth said:

@3below and @Andyjr1515 ... thank you both!

 

I've spoken to Luthier Supplies, how very helpful they were!

 

They said they can produce a custom cut for me if I send in the details.

 

My discussion tho did pose me a couple of ... points ... for consideration, I wonder if anyone has any pointers.

 

My approach of using a single piece of wood for the neck was questioned, it was suggested that it is more common to glue two or more splices.  Will this result in a superior (stronger or more stable) neck?  I'd prefer to not go to the trouble if it is not significantly better.

 

It was suggested it was more common to use a separate glued on fingerboard, 1) ensuring the strings are sufficiently far from the front of the body to clear the pups was a reason for this as well as 2) hiding the truss rod.

 

In my twiggy prototype, I embedded the pup into the 'body' to provide clearance.

 

2) I plan to use a rear-installed truss rod with a skunk stripe.  I foresee that the 'finishing' of the stripe can be incorporated into my working the rear of the neck to form the profile.

 

Are either of these choices a ... mistake?

 

S'manth x

 

Big topic and too many aspects to be able to cover single-finger typing on my tablet (baby grandson is asleep in the room with the desktop!)

But, a few initial thoughts to be considered or discarded as you wish

-  the Fender type one piece, single rod truss rod in curved slot routed from the back and covered with a shaped 'skunk stripe' packer is 1000% the most difficult way of doing it

- flat topped neck blank with parallel truss rod slot and modern two way rod with separate radiussed and/or fret slotted fretboard is the easiest

- if the timber is decent quality and the correct cut, then for normal to short scale, one piece neck blanks should be OK

- two piece, with the second piece flipped so that the end grain 'mirrors' will be more resistant to warping and is a useful thing to do for 5-string and above or for very long scale necks

- functionally, multiples above two-piece are usually for reasons other than strength (such as avoidance of a trussrod rout cut as @3below illustrates above, for aesthetic reasons or to play with stiffness/hardness sonic tweaks)

[SamIAm]

6 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

...

But, a few initial thoughts to be considered or discarded as you wish

...

Thanks @Andyjr1515!

 

I am definitely not looking at installing a 'trad' truss rod, I intend a 'dual action using a flat slot' type.

 

Is there any reason that this cannot be installed using a 'back of neck' approach? I'd route a flat slot (deep enough to take the truss rod plus the extra 6-8mm for the skunk stripe insert) and the necessary extra cutouts to accommodate the adjustment nut, pop in the truss rod and then (like gluing on a fingerboard) glue in a skunk stripe.

 

I'm still going back and forth on how I feel about a 'single piece with truss rod (and possibly a pair of carbon fibre rods to maximise stability) inserted from the rear ' vs a 'single piece with fingerboard' vs 'two piece veneer with fingerboard'.

 

Hmmm ... I really like the idea of having some lovely grain showing on the front of the body, but not sure that is the best thing for the fingerboard; this would point me towards having a separate fingerboard that is glued to the front of a slab cut neck/body.

 

Would having a separate fingerboard add structural stability to the neck (and perhaps obviate any need for carbon fibre rods)?

 

S'manth x

[3below]

The finished neck will have the same overall depth whether it is your one piece design or a neck plus fingerboard.  The only way a separate fingerboard will improve stability is if the board is stiffer / more twist resistant than the wood that you would use in the remainder of the neck. 

 

I see no (obvious) reasons why your route from the back + skunk stripe approach will not work with a dual action rod.  One subtle benefit you can gain from a separate fingerboard is the ability (to some degree) to adjust the relief / fall at the top end of the board by judicious levelling if needed.  

 

Despite my physics/engineering former life, I can not reach any conclusions about carbon fibre rods in necks (nor do I have any practical experience with them to go on).  It seems to me that it would be all too easy to over stiffen the neck and thus needing the truss rod to add relief ( I unintentionally achieved this state on my last build with a very thick fingerboard and deep chunky neck, no carbon rods).  Careful choice of rods seems to be required.