It's the little things that matter (rant, rant...)

[FretBuzz]

I own a Schroeder 410R cabinet (bought from niceguyhomer here at BC) and I am so impressed with it that I am going to get a 1210R for smaller gigs. The only distributor in the UK seems to be SHX music, so I sent them an email asking if they has a 1210R in stock and inquiring about a cover and a custom dolly that Schroeder makes to wheel the 410 around. Three days later I received this reply.

[color="#0000FF"]Hi Chris

can you let me know your delivery address (inc.postcode) and how you want to pay for the cab so i can sort out the best price for you and so that you can pay for the cab before someone else orders it. Remember that you can pay via paypal (to [email protected]) and depending on where you live will determine the delivery cost or alternately you can pay via bank transfer which will get you a cheaper price and guarantee free delivery.

we dont stock covers or dollys but i can order them for you as a separate order later when we place our next order with schroeder. There may be a two or three month wait as it'll be a little while before we place the order and shipping can take a few weeks from the states.[/color]

Now I read this as "give us your money for the big ticket item and then go away. We can't be bothered to get the accessiories.

I contacted Jorg Schroeder and received a reply the same day offering to ship me the 1210R and the accessories. The price works out about the same for the cabinet, factoring in shipping, import duty, etc. As SHX did not quote me a price for the other bits and pieces, I have nothing to compare it with, but the prices from Jorg are reasonable.

Guess who will be getting my order?

[skywalker]

Seems like some of these retailers can't be a****.

Wonder how soon they'll go bust.

[Dread Bass]

I just dont buy this oh you will have to wait x amount of months till we make an order it just seems like a bit of a cop out almost like they no they are the only distributer.

[Paul_C]

It all looks straightforward to me. For the distributor in the UK to make any money they no doubt have to place a decent sized order, rather than just odd bits and pieces, or all their profit is swallowed up in shipping/duty etc. The delay in shipping is due to the pallet coming by sea, rather than air, as that also brings costs down.

[niceguyhomer]

Hi Chris, I'm glad you're pleased with the cab. What a bummer, most people seem to deal directly with Jorg and that speaks volumes to me.

I think I've just solved my cab dilemma - fingers crossed, I should have my new GK 212 NEO for Saturday's gig.

[FretBuzz]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='48762' date='Aug 22 2007, 10:30 AM']It all looks straightforward to me. For the distributor in the UK to make any money they no doubt have to place a decent sized order, rather than just odd bits and pieces, or all their profit is swallowed up in shipping/duty etc. The delay in shipping is due to the pallet coming by sea, rather than air, as that also brings costs down.[/quote]

Building a business these days is all about having loyal customers who you can count on for repeat business. If this may means going out of your way to make a first impression, even if cuts into your profit margin, so be it. How much future business have they lost, not only from me, but also from anyone I may have recommended them to?

[Sugden]

[quote name='FretBuzz' post='48788' date='Aug 22 2007, 10:59 AM']Building a business these days is all about having loyal customers who you can count on for repeat business. If this may means going out of your way to make a first impression, even if cuts into your profit margin, so be it. How much future business have they lost, not only from me, but also from anyone I may have recommended them to?[/quote]

This is true but you can't exspect someone else to eat up the costs for such a small purchase. If they order it for you the first time you will naturaly exspect it a second time when you want something in a hurry. When they can't do this I would espect people to get even more anoyed saying well if you had said this the first time I would have known what to exspect and left more time.

But the email does seem totaly in-personal and a terrible way to sort out getting your money before even a nice word is said. Even the email being restructured would have helped.

Can't treat customers like this in the day of the internet word travels too fast.

[shxmusic]

OK Chris lets get the facts right here...

you contacted us on the 15th Aug and asked:

chris
Do you keep the 1210 cabinets in stock and if not how long would it take to get one?
---------

we replied on the 17th Aug

shxmusic:

we have one 1210R cab in stock at the moment….which normally sells for
£565 + £10p&p

however, i can do a special rate for you of £517 including delivery ..

alternately you can pay via direct bank transfer, let us know if you
want to and we'll give you the details to send the money and we will
also reduce the total payment to £510 !

delivery is normally about 2-3 days though it maybe possible sooner
depending on where abouts you live so if you can let us know roughly
where you live or your postcode we'll see what we can sort out
--------------

you then replied on the 17th Aug ...

chris:

Consider the 1210 sold! I have a Schroeder 410 and I want something for
smaller gigs. Can you also get me a cover for the 1210 and one of the
Telescopic Steel Dollies advertised on the Schroeder web site. I need it
for
the 410 as it is a heavy thing to lug around - great sound though.
-----------------

we then replied with the email you quoted on the 20th AUg

shxmusic:

can you let me know your delivery address (inc.postcode) and how you
want to pay for the cab so i can sort out the best price for you and so
that you can pay for the cab before someone else orders it. Remember
that you can pay via paypal (to [email protected]) and depending on
where you live will determine the delivery cost or alternately you can
pay via bank transfer which will get you a cheaper price and guarantee
free delivery.

we dont stock covers or dollys but i can order them for you as a
separate order later when we place our next order with schroeder. There
may be a two or three month wait as it'll be a little while before we
place the order and shipping can take a few weeks from the states.
---------------


so in context other people reading this thread you are misleading will realise that:

you had already told us the cabinet was sold which is why we were asking how you
wanted to pay (and that it was to try to get it cheaper for you) and that we were asking for
delivery address (for the second time because you didnt answer!) simply to try
to save you money (by arranging cheaper delivery) and to let you know how long the delivery would take..

regarding stock, we only stock the cabs only and not the dollys or covers but were
actually making an effort to get them for you and being honest about
the shipping time which is beyond our control

as for the delays in replies, any delay is not good and we make a real
effort to reply as soon as we can which is normally the same day... and other
basschat/basstalk members have commented about how good our
serivce normally is... however, sometimes we are very busy
esp. during the august holidays which is the reason in your case
for the 2 day delay ( i was in france) and the 3 day delay (i was in suffolk)
also, we did state this on the website that the office was closed over later august
due to holidays

and finally chris, it appears we actually do care very much about schroeder cabinets
and our customers more than you have made out to the point that we are willing to waste time
writting a very long reply to your very misleading, defamatory comments which were
wrong, out of context and even boardering on liable and certainly not of any help to
the bass community to which our aim has always been to make accessable to bassists
in this country at the best prices the fantastic schroeder cabs

[misrule]

I think you'd have won your argument, shxmusic -- if your reply hadn't been so heavy-handed.

Potential customers may draw the conclusion that you'll lay in to them like this, too, if there is a problem.

You've even had to "waste time" putting your case across, as your last paragraph explains. Wasn't this an ideal opportunity to win hearts and minds?

Cheers

Mark

[shxmusic]

[quote name='misrule' post='59632' date='Sep 13 2007, 01:34 AM']I think you'd have won your argument, shxmusic -- if your reply hadn't been so heavy-handed.

Potential customers may draw the conclusion that you'll lay in to them like this, too, if there is a problem.

You've even had to "waste time" putting your case across, as your last paragraph explains. Wasn't this an ideal opportunity to win hearts and minds?

Cheers

Mark[/quote]

comments like in this thread are very damaging so of course i was heavy handed

im a bassist not a salesman, if trying to more accessable what i think are the best cabs around at the cheapest prices available are not enough to win other bassists hearts and minds then its a losing battle anyway

[paul, the]

Nice one shxmusic!

For shame Chris


I for one appreciate and respect any business representative coming on here and explaining their case. Kudos. Will have to see if this erupts at all though, the wee devils inside us all hope it will.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='misrule' post='59632' date='Sep 13 2007, 01:34 AM']I think you'd have won your argument, shxmusic -- if your reply hadn't been so heavy-handed.

Potential customers may draw the conclusion that you'll lay in to them like this, too, if there is a problem.

You've even had to "waste time" putting your case across, as your last paragraph explains. Wasn't this an ideal opportunity to win hearts and minds?

Cheers

Mark[/quote]

Sorry I have to disagree... Fair does to SHX. I've been considering a Schroeder cab for a while (it would ease my troubles performing in 3 bands) and following the comments made by Chris I had 'almost' reached the conclusion that I may as well contact Jorg direct.

SHX have come back with what appears to be a valid and measured response; I don't see any more heavy handedness in the reply than I do in the original statements made by Chris. The response by SHX have certainly given me food for thought and I'm pleased to see that SHX care enough to 'waste time' responding.

[paul, the]

Aye, we're too down to earth for cheesy insincere corporate diplomacy. It's refreshing to see businesses being straight and upfront.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='paul, the' post='59640' date='Sep 13 2007, 05:17 AM']For shame Chris [/quote]

+1. SHX's reply was fair enough IMO.

[Cantdosleepy]

Hooray for everyone!

[FretBuzz]

Shaun, I do not intend to participate in an online argument. However, I stand by my original message and do not feel the need to defend it. People can read both our points of view and make their own decision.

Obviously, you will not going to agree with me, but I draw your attention to:

"im a bassist not a salesman"
You have on online business selling goods to the public - perhaps you should become one?

"if trying to more accessable what i think are the best cabs around at the cheapest prices available are not enough to win other bassists hearts and minds then its a losing battle anyway"
In today's highly competitive market, you will succeed by providing better service than your competitors. That does not necessarily mean having the lowest prices. Schroeder cabinets are not budget items and prospective purchasers already know what they are buying. Good service is what will do it.

"we dont stock covers or dollys but i can order them for you as a separate order later when we place our next order with schroeder. There may be a two or three month wait as it'll be a little while before we place the order and shipping can take a few weeks from the states."
I contacted Jorg directly, received a reply the same day and all of the items are now at my local ParcelForce depot waiting for me to pick them up. What more is there to say?

[wateroftyne]

For whatever reason (and there could be many business reasons), Shaun doesn't stock accessories. He openly told you this, and gave you lead times that he feels are realistic.

And you think this warrants slagging him on a public forum?

I don't get it.

Edited September 13, 2007 by wateroftyne

[FretBuzz]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='59732' date='Sep 13 2007, 10:18 AM']For whatever reason (and there could be many business reasons), Shaun doesn't stock accessories. He openly told you this, and gave you lead times that he feels are realistic.

And you think this warrants slagging him on a public forum?

I don't get it.[/quote]

I'd be interested to know which part of the original message counts as "Slagging him"

And no, you don't get it.

[wateroftyne]

[quote]Now I read this as "give us your money for the big ticket item and then go away. We can't be bothered to get the accessiories."[/quote]

This comment is incredibly unfair, IMO.

[Alpha-Dave]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='59683' date='Sep 13 2007, 08:22 AM']+1. SHX's reply was fair enough IMO.[/quote]


+2. It was a logical statement, not heavy handed.

It was by far the best reply to criticism I've seen on any forum, and I really can't see what the original poster was complaining about!

[Cantdosleepy]

I think we can let this thread die now. Both points of view have been expressed. Minds can be made up.

[The Funk]

It sounds like the most sensible thing would have been to buy the cab from SHX and the other bits directly from Schroeder.

I think the context here was really important.

Was there any exchange of correspondence after the second round of emails or did it make its way directly onto here?

[FretBuzz]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='59757' date='Sep 13 2007, 10:49 AM']I think we can let this thread die now. Both points of view have been expressed. Minds can be made up.[/quote]

Agreed.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='FretBuzz' post='59725' date='Sep 13 2007, 10:01 AM']"im a bassist not a salesman"
You have on online business selling goods to the public - perhaps you should become one?

"if trying to more accessable what i think are the best cabs around at the cheapest prices available are not enough to win other bassists hearts and minds then its a losing battle anyway"
In today's highly competitive market, you will succeed by providing better service than your competitors. That does not necessarily mean having the lowest prices. Schroeder cabinets are not budget items and prospective purchasers already know what they are buying. Good service is what will do it.

"we dont stock covers or dollys but i can order them for you as a separate order later when we place our next order with schroeder. There may be a two or three month wait as it'll be a little while before we place the order and shipping can take a few weeks from the states."
I contacted Jorg directly, received a reply the same day and all of the items are now at my local ParcelForce depot waiting for me to pick them up. What more is there to say?[/quote]
The company seemed to being helpfull and trying to get you your product at a lower than the list price, prepared to order in extra bits for you in their next order and so on. You would have had to wait a wee while for their next shipment but that seems reasonable and good service from their part. The fact you can source it quicker somewhere else doesn't mean that their service is lacking.

What more do you want? They look like a small company who are doing all they can to provide you with what you want, I am glad they took some time to set out what the craic is on this board. I find it shaming that you would openly tell your side of the story and (without their reply) probably loose them some business on the basis they would take a wee while to get some covers for the cabs which they choose not to stock.
Perhaps you would prefer to shop at one of the large chains of music stores in the country who have large stock lists, and you can be sold bass gear by trained chimps/salespeople who dont really know how to play bassguitar? I'm sure they can give you the 'good service' you desire, and although they wont have the product you are after im sure they can give a highly skilled opinion and point you to the cabs they make the biggest margin on.
It is petulant that you dont even realise how you are 'slagging' of this man and his company.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='FretBuzz' post='59762' date='Sep 13 2007, 11:06 AM']Agreed.[/quote]

Ah. Acceptance of defeat.

Fretbuzz, you are weakest link. Goodbye.

...slagging on forums is pretty low. It's all been done before. PJB cough, cough.