Effect, compressor, HPF: which 1st, 2nd, last?

[Sparky Mark]

I'm slightly confused/undecided as to which order these pedals should be placed in the signal chain between my bass and amplifier. I'd welcome strong opinions from those Basschatters with actual experience please. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Sparky Mark

[BigRedX]

If the HF is there simply to remove any unwanted subsonics from your signal, then it should go last in the chain - ideally in the (series) effects loop of your amp so the amp's EQ isn't boosting them back up again. That leaves you with just two pedals that could go in either order, so experiment and see which way around you prefer.

[Sparky Mark]

  On 08/07/2022 at 08:02, BigRedX said:

If the HF is there simply to remove any unwanted subsonics from your signal, then it should go last in the chain - ideally in the (series) effects loop of your amp so the amp's EQ isn't boosting them back up again. That leaves you with just two pedals that could go in either order, so experiment and see which way around you prefer.

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Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately my main amps have parallel fx loops that are pre EQ, so a fail on two counts. I'm thinking that if the HPF is removing the sub 35Hz frequencies that the amp won't add too much back in.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Sparky Mark

[Dood]

If it's a full-band compressor in the path, then I might try the HPF first so that it can filter unwanted subsonic frequencies from hitting the compressor and overwhelming it's control circuit.

 

Now this may or may not be the case as some compressors have suitable filtering / side-chain circuits that ignore sub frequencies, but there are many that don't. 

[DaleASmith]

The HPF goes before the Compressor no? If you have Subsonic information you're trying to get rid of, that's going to hit the compressor and effect what it does. Surely its best to remove that first, leaving the compressor to work on the signal you actually want to hear. 

[Dood]

I've just reviewed an incredible bass that has an HPF actually built in to it's active circuit. I feel that it made a difference, the bass was so easy to record and needed very little in post-production to get a great sound. Shame I couldn't afford to buy it!

[hamfist]

  On 08/07/2022 at 09:38, DaleASmith said:

The HPF goes before the Compressor no? If you have Subsonic information you're trying to get rid of, that's going to hit the compressor and effect what it does. Surely its best to remove that first, leaving the compressor to work on the signal you actually want to hear. 

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Agreed. Thats the way I'd go. 

[Sparky Mark]

Thanks all; I'm now thinking VT Bass first, to get the tone I want, then into HPF to remove sub frequencies, then into Compressore third?

Edited July 8, 2022 by Sparky Mark

[DaleASmith]

That's how I'd run it..

[hamfist]

Yup, ultimately, I think we are fairly agreed that the HPF should ideally go before the Compressor. 

 

As for the VT Bass, it comes down to taste. Before and after the compressor will give different sounds. I much prefer the comp before the drive, to even out the drive amount a bit. The comp after the drive will simply tend to trim off the peaks more.  Different effects, depends on what you are looking for.,

[Sparky Mark]

  On 08/07/2022 at 13:39, hamfist said:

Yup, ultimately, I think we are fairly agreed that the HPF should ideally go before the Compressor. 

 

As for the VT Bass, it comes down to taste. Before and after the compressor will give different sounds. I much prefer the comp before the drive, to even out the drive amount a bit. The comp after the drive will simply tend to trim off the peaks more.  Different effects, depends on what you are looking for.,

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Thank you, I'll try it that way too and see if I prefer either way. I use the VT for a clean fat tube tone so maybe the difference will be marginal. 

[pete.young]

Guidance from Max at SFX Sound (who makes the Thumpinator) was to put the HPF first in the chain.  I've been following that advice and it seems to work well.

 

I'd put the compressor next, then any other effects. The only exception to this would be if I were using an envelope filter, which I'd put upstream of the compressor.

[LukeFRC]

  On 08/07/2022 at 09:39, Dood said:

I've just reviewed an incredible bass that has an HPF actually built in to it's active circuit. I feel that it made a difference, the bass was so easy to record and needed very little in post-production to get a great sound. Shame I couldn't afford to buy it!

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ACG? 

[Sparky Mark]

  On 09/07/2022 at 10:17, pete.young said:

Guidance from Max at SFX Sound (who makes the Thumpinator) was to put the HPF first in the chain.  I've been following that advice and it seems to work well.

 

I'd put the compressor next, then any other effects. The only exception to this would be if I were using an envelope filter, which I'd put upstream of the compressor.

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Is there the possibility that effects can add back in the sub frequencies the HPF is designed to eliminate?

[ped]

  On 09/07/2022 at 15:17, Sparky Mark said:

Is there the possibility that effects can add back in the sub frequencies the HPF is designed to eliminate?

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Yep that’s why I’d always have it at the end of the chain. Compressors are designed to work with the full range so it won’t be any benefit to put the HPF before yours. I think you had it right at the start. 

[pete.young]

  On 09/07/2022 at 15:17, Sparky Mark said:

Is there the possibility that effects can add back in the sub frequencies the HPF is designed to eliminate?

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Maybe if you had a digital octave down pedal that could happen. Not sure what other pedals might do that.

[ped]

  On 10/07/2022 at 22:09, pete.young said:

Maybe if you had a digital octave down pedal that could happen. Not sure what other pedals might do that.

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Synths, filters

[rmorris]

  On 09/07/2022 at 18:37, ped said:

Compressors are designed to work with the full range so it won’t be any benefit to put the HPF before yours.

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Really depends on the compressor. If it reacts to the low / subsonic frequencies that you don't want then you end up with excessive compression and also eat up the dynamic range.

[rmorris]

  On 09/07/2022 at 15:17, Sparky Mark said:

Is there the possibility that effects can add back in the sub frequencies the HPF is designed to eliminate?

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Not with fx chain pictured in the OP I think.

Could do with envelope filters / synths etc...

Two different things really - attenuating subsonic "thumps"  from the bass itself and clamping down on excessive low frequencies generated in the signal chain.

You can use more than one hpf as appropriate.

Bear in mind that some amps have a built in hpf at the input and some don't.

[acidbass]

  On 08/07/2022 at 09:35, Dood said:

I might try the HPF first so that it can filter unwanted subsonic frequencies from hitting the compressor and overwhelming it's control circuit.

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This

 

On my HX I run the HPF first and everything else after.  It cleans up the signal that hits every other patch afterwards.

 

For the other two in your rig, I would try both and see which you prefer.

[Downunderwonder]

  On 08/07/2022 at 09:48, Sparky Mark said:

Thanks all; I'm now thinking VT Bass first, to get the tone I want, then into HPF to remove sub frequencies, then into Compressore third?

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That can work for sure.

 

It really depends on what you want the compressor to do. The VT will do a fair amount of compressing when the gain is increased.

 

On the other hand you might like the sound the VT makes when fed a compressed signal.

 

On the other hand you might like what the compressor does with a high passed signal.

 

I hope you are seeing a pattern here.

 

Lucky for you there are only 6 ways to order three pedals. Have at it.

[Sparky Mark]

  On 13/07/2022 at 07:28, Downunderwonder said:

That can work for sure.

 

It really depends on what you want the compressor to do. The VT will do a fair amount of compressing when the gain is increased.

 

On the other hand you might like the sound the VT makes when fed a compressed signal.

 

On the other hand you might like what the compressor does with a high passed signal.

 

I hope you are seeing a pattern here.

 

Lucky for you there are only 6 ways to order three pedals. Have at it.

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I'm using the compressor relatively lightly to just smooth and fatten the clean setting on the VT Bass. The HPF is set at 35Hz. I had read some threads on the placement of HPF and compressor but there didn't seem to be a consensus; much like this thread. I think for my moderate settings there may not be an appreciable difference however I order them but I really appreciate all the advice given above.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sparky Mark

[Baloney Balderdash]

  On 08/07/2022 at 09:48, Sparky Mark said:

Thanks all; I'm now thinking VT Bass first, to get the tone I want, then into HPF to remove sub frequencies, then into Compressore third?

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That's how I'd put it, though one can argue for the preamp last in the chain instead as well.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[paulo m]

I have the Cali C.B. 76 first on my board with 4 to 1 'FAT' compression' & fast release       & I've a Tech 21 Q Strip @ the end of the board where I utilise its       H. P. F & Sometimes L. P. F filters.. Works Great" really tightens the Low End for Punch without any Sludgy Loose Sound' & I use this in all Rigs. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by paulo m

[itu]

1) HPF is the first (or maybe after envelope filter/oct/synth) unit in the signal chain. It reduces handling noise.

 

2) HPF is the last in line. All handling noise goes through the FX. The sounds octavers and synths have created on top of that will be effectively cleaned from the power hungry freq bands.

 

3) Two HPFs: no matter what you have in your signal chain, the input gets meaningful signal, and output should push amp a tight sound.

 

I think that all possibilities are feasible, as long as we bassists understand the functionality of the HPF.