I ❤️ Public Liability Insurance

[scalpy]

Funnily enough this was a young farmers style gig- basically that community. So technically a private event booked by joe public so no venue insurance (in all likelihood I imagine) and no team dedicated to cleaning or security. We’ve done several for this set and every time something has wrong footed us, the only time we’ve had stuff nicked for example or been expected to play much louder than we have the capacity for. This is despite my wife being the former county administrator for the YFC and running their chairman’s events each year and the like. 
 

All the above advice has been very helpful though, thank you all, we shall look at how address these issues and navigate who has the responsibility etc. Looking at Dads picture of a stage above in the thread I’d be worried about the lack of rails around the three sides, but it may have been still in construction. 

[Combed20]

3 hours ago, TimR said:

Ultimately if the floor is awash with drinks, stop the show and get the organiser to clear the floor, stop people bringing their drinks on the dance area, let people cool it, and then restart. 

 

Drinks on dance floor should be a basic no no right from the off. Write that into your contract. 

 

We all get a bit carried away, but at some point someone has to take responsibility. Next thing will be someone pours their drink into the monitors. 

This is a great point. If the organiser of the event isn't running a safe event, it's time to stop the show

 

[neepheid]

It makes me sad that this conversation even needs to take place. From my own point of view, if I come a cropper due to my own actions (getting plastered) and I cause something bad to happen because of that, that's on me.

 

Sad state of affairs that there's so much abdication of personal responsibility these days that necessitates this kind of insurance.

[TimR]

1 hour ago, neepheid said:

It makes me sad that this conversation even needs to take place. From my own point of view, if I come a cropper due to my own actions (getting plastered) and I cause something bad to happen because of that, that's on me.

 

Sad state of affairs that there's so much abdication of personal responsibility these days that necessitates this kind of insurance.

 

What if you come a cropper due to someone else's lack of attention to detail. 

 

Aforesaid drunk punter knocks those lights over and they give you a serious injury meaning you can never work again? 

 

Who pays the legal bills? You? The drunk punter? The event organiser? The band? The barman who failed to stop serving him the drinks when he was obviously drunk? 

 

Let alone who pays for your ongoing medical care.

Edited July 11, 2022 by TimR

[mrtcat]

PLI is a must for all gigs but in this instance a watertight contract would have been even more useful. I'm sure your existing standard contract covers most things but, with events like this in mind, it should definitely include:

 

* Band requires a safe, firm and level stage and footing for all equipment (include minimum dimensions). 

 

* Client accepts full responsibility for damage to band equipment caused by avoidable behaviour of client's guests.

 

* Client is to ensure that no guests enter the bands performance space or interfere with the bands equipment.

 

There are loads of things you can add to suit your needs. Breach of agreement needs to be highlighted on the night and you must reserve the right to pack up and leave if you feel there is a danger to you or your equipment. 

 

We have packed up mid gig 3 times since covid restrictions were lifted and on each occasion the contract has backed us up. Our agents are ace too and have backed us each time too.

Edited July 12, 2022 by mrtcat

[JapanAxe]

10 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

…

 

We have packed up mid gig 3 times since covid restrictions were lifted and on each occasion the contract has backed us up. Our agents are ace too and have backed us each time too.

What were the circumstances that led to this?

[mrtcat]

18 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

What were the circumstances that led to this?

Almost identical on all 3 occasions. 1st was punters climbing on stage mid set and trying to sing into mics and grabbing our spare guitars out of the rack. 2nd we had someone get on stage while we were getting changed who decided he wanted to try drums. He hit the snare so hard that by the time we got to him he had gone through the skin. That was the start of problems but the clincher was when lads were on each others shoulders on the dancefloor and barging into each other until one of them fell onto stage and took out 2 mic stands and cracked the screen on guitarists helix. 3rd one was a fight broke out on the dancfloor (rugby lads) and then spilled over into all our gear resulting in broken lights and a toppled PA stack.

 

We video all of our gigs on the offchance we actually do something worth sharing on social media. This is cracking evidence when we walk off.

[JapanAxe]

1 hour ago, mrtcat said:

Almost identical on all 3 occasions. 1st was punters climbing on stage mid set and trying to sing into mics and grabbing our spare guitars out of the rack. 2nd we had someone get on stage while we were getting changed who decided he wanted to try drums. He hit the snare so hard that by the time we got to him he had gone through the skin. That was the start of problems but the clincher was when lads were on each others shoulders on the dancefloor and barging into each other until one of them fell onto stage and took out 2 mic stands and cracked the screen on guitarists helix. 3rd one was a fight broke out on the dancfloor (rugby lads) and then spilled over into all our gear resulting in broken lights and a toppled PA stack.

 

We video all of our gigs on the offchance we actually do something worth sharing on social media. This is cracking evidence when we walk off.

Blimey!

[TimR]

I do wonder at what point the members of a band would be considered guilty of some kind of incitement if they failed to calm the music down or even stop if a crowd gets violent. 

[mrtcat]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

I do wonder at what point the members of a band would be considered guilty of some kind of incitement if they failed to calm the music down or even stop if a crowd gets violent. 

 

You can't play on when there's a fight happening at a wedding. It just wouldn't happen. If a crowd gets violent the band has to stop playing altogether end of.

[Dad3353]

In my time ('70s...), playing 'les bals publiques' or weddings and such in France, the consign, if there was any trouble, was to keep playing, whatever happened, or all hell would break loose. I witnessed few incidents, usually short-lived thanks to the rapid intervention of great-aunt Mabel or such, armed with a broom. Any trouble-makers were hauled away by their ears and kicked out, and the band played on. Happy daze. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Dad3353

[scalpy]

Punters on stage is recurring issue for us, as is using the stage edge as a bin.

[JapanAxe]

15 hours ago, scalpy said:

Punters on stage is recurring issue for us, as is using the stage edge as a bin.

In pubs with an open ‘stage’ setup I sometimes have to remove punters’ pints from the top of my amp!

[NikNik]

18 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

Blimey!

The only mad things I remember from gigging days are the can of Red Stripe flying past my ear and crashing into the drums (drummer didn't miss a beat) and the knife/axe fight amongst bikers in the adjacent bar area that was going on as we played. Bizarre night. Loaded out through that bar with the floor covered in blood and broken glass.

Edited July 14, 2022 by NikNik

[scalpy]

17 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

In pubs with an open ‘stage’ setup I sometimes have to remove punters’ pints from the top of my amp!

This particular gig it was bottles of champagne. The guitarist was constantly moving them away from his floor mounted Kemper and off the subs. We all made the move to in-ears not so long ago but the singers have been on them for over a year- we’ve definitely noticed that the stage invasions and littering have increased with the lack of psychological boundary. We thought that the lack of monitors posed less of a hazard for punters but actually the singers have had more people piling into them and their iPad, it’s daft how these things work out.

[JapanAxe]

5 hours ago, scalpy said:

This particular gig it was bottles of champagne. The guitarist was constantly moving them away from his floor mounted Kemper and off the subs. We all made the move to in-ears not so long ago but the singers have been on them for over a year- we’ve definitely noticed that the stage invasions and littering have increased with the lack of psychological boundary. We thought that the lack of monitors posed less of a hazard for punters but actually the singers have had more people piling into them and their iPad, it’s daft how these things work out.

Ah yes, the old comedy somersault over a wedge monitor!

With subs you may as well display a sign saying ‘stick your glasses here’.

[Happy Jack]

9 hours ago, scalpy said:

We’ve definitely noticed that the stage invasions and littering have increased with the lack of psychological boundary. We thought that the lack of monitors posed less of a hazard for punters but actually the singers have had more people piling into them and their iPad, it’s daft how these things work out.

 

It's astonishing the difference it makes to have a visible "Don't Cross This Line" boundary. People have to be seriously, massively drunk or stupid to step over that, and IME the vast majority just don't do it.

 

At least half our gigs in any year will be in pubs with no stage or band area delineation at all. We use things like https://www.vevor.co.uk/cable-ramp-c_10747/3pcs-2-cable-rubber-warehouse-vehicle-electrical-wire-cover-ramp-protector-snake-p_010293714399?gclid=CjwKCAjwoMSWBhAdEiwAVJ2ndhBprL2zGU4Up_FeLb_lPx9ubXD3jc85b2Gqm8hI_tH9mjkMNyvblxoCvF4QAvD_BwE in front of the band, backed up (as required) by https://www.safetybuyer.com/50mm-wide-black-yellow-anti-slip-tape-x-18-3m.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwoMSWBhAdEiwAVJ2ndvWac4BCyweeFWHsmTV2azWKJ9OlwLKYK4KNzd-PDGIq6vHk3LJqARoCTg4QAvD_BwE

 

Those little touches have (so far) been all we need to keep the punters away from us and our gear.

[Silvia Bluejay]

18 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Those little touches have (so far) been all we need to keep the punters away from us and our gear.

Except in those cases where the sound engineer had to become a human shield to the double bass lying on the floor in front of the band (due to lack of space to store it on stage).

[jimmyb625]

On 13/07/2022 at 20:42, mrtcat said:

 

You can't play on when there's a fight happening at a wedding. It just wouldn't happen. If a crowd gets violent the band has to stop playing altogether end of.

 

 

[chris_b]

I play with a band that uses this between the audience and band. . . . sometimes it works!!

 

[Lozz196]

On 13/07/2022 at 18:53, TimR said:

I do wonder at what point the members of a band would be considered guilty of some kind of incitement if they failed to calm the music down or even stop if a crowd gets violent. 

I remember going to see The Last Resort at The 100 Club (might have even been on the bill that night) and JJ the bassist in between songs alerted security that a bloke was unconscious at the front, think he’d hit his head on the monitor/edge of the stage in the heat of the moment as he went over (or someone had clocked him a bit too hard). Security dragged him out, luckily he was ok but yes, def bands do have a responsibility to try to calm things down, which isn’t an easy feat on the punk/Oi scene. I thought a crowd we played to in Hamburg were going to seriously injure each other at least as there was a bit of niggle going on. We did our bit, asked them to try to not kill each other.

[TimR]

Just remembered hiring out a hall as an 18 year old in the mid 80s. 

 

I just signed the council's form. Never gave it a second thought. 

 

1. I had to eject a guy from the kitchen who was weighing and selling drugs. He didn't even threaten me with knife he was carrying. Just said sorry and left. Bizarre.

 

2. Someone stage dived during our set, the crowd parted and he hit the deck, hard, was a good 2 minutes before he got up and joined back into the mosh. 

 

Was a good night. Before I owned a house and had wife and children depending on me not being in prison. 

[TimR]

White gaffa or a line of lights is definitly a sensible plan to create a notional barrier. 

[Downunderwonder]

8 hours ago, chris_b said:

I play with a band that uses this between the audience and band. . . . sometimes it works!!

 

I think it lacks the black and yellow factor that works on the primitive subconscious brain, the last to go after 10 pints.

 

Those cable run protectors are genius. Nobody wants to dance on those. Next best thing to a solid fence I reckon.