100W Stoneham valve amp - small footprint, lighter weight

[Nickthebass]

Just now, warwickhunt said:

 

You just daisy chain 1 cab off another.  Very few cabs have no parallel option.  

Gen 2 Super Midgets and Compacts have no daisy chain option. 🤣

[warwickhunt]

1 minute ago, Nickthebass said:

Gen 2 Super Midgets and Compacts have no daisy chain option. 🤣

 

Why would you make a small cab with no option to chain another?  Seems a daft idea and a single input limits use... with valve amps! 

[Nickthebass]

9 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Why would you make a small cab with no option to chain another?  Seems a daft idea and a single input limits use... with valve amps! 

I think it was because it compromises the performance of the cab (you’ve just punched another hole in it from which sound can leak) - someone who knows more may correct me.

 

Also - if you daisy chain and first cab fails you may lose output from the second one. If they’re both connected directly to the head then a fail on one cab won’t affect the other.

 

From a practical standpoint (storage as much as anything else) - two heads and two 8 ohm cabs is (for me) a neat and flexible  solution. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Nickthebass

[Merton]

16 minutes ago, Nickthebass said:

This was exactly my point. A common modular rig includes two 8 ohm cabs but with the set up on most (all?) valve power stages that I’ve seen you can’t run both cabs off a single 4 ohm output without a splitter. 

 

Personally it would limit the gig-ability of an amp if I was limited to using only one cab. It sounds like there is a big quality / relatability compromise in building that flexibility that I wasn’t aware of - hence the question. 

I can’t see there being an issue with providing two, but it needs to be idiot proof ideally. And that’s where the idea may fall down for the general population

[Nickthebass]

3 minutes ago, Merton said:

I can’t see there being an issue with providing two, but it needs to be idiot proof ideally. And that’s where the idea may fall down for the general population

Have 4 speakon combo jack two per tap. Draw a big box around two and write “min 4 ohm total load” - big box around the other two “min 8 ohm load” - then make sure you don’t ask the singer to set your rig up. 

[Merton]

4 minutes ago, Nickthebass said:

Have 4 speakon combo jack two per tap. Draw a big box around two and write “min 4 ohm total load” - big box around the other two “min 8 ohm load” - then make sure you don’t ask the singer to set your rig up. 

Valve amps don’t do min load like solid state amps, they prefer lower rather than higher impedances. I’d avoid the word “min” basically. 🤓

For me the 4 ohm tap would have two parallel jack/speakons, with a box saying “1x4 ohm or 2x 8 ohm” and the 8 ohm likewise but “1x 8 ohm or 2x 16 ohm” 

🙂

Edited July 20, 2022 by Merton
Spelling

[Merton]

All that being said, if we’re trying to keep the footprint small, having so many speaker outs doesn’t quite sit on the same brief for me 😅

[JPJ]

Crazy idea, to save space use a four pole speakon and offer a special cable with two outs for one in (it works in my head)

[dmccombe7]

Tuner out would be nice to have.

 

With daisy chained cabs my understanding is that if one cab fails it wont affect the other cab as they are basically in parallel at the back of the speakon on the cab which i believe is the same with the twin amp speakons.

Only issue is that if the cable from the amp fails then you lose both cabs.

 

Dave

[Quilly]

I've seen KT150s used by a boutique amp builder in the states. Apparently you can per 70W per valve. I read somewhere in the past that they're difficult to get and can be a tad unreliable . 

(only Tung-sol make them as far as I know). Would this be a viable option at all for use in a small amp https://upscaleaudio.com/products/tung-sol-kt-150

[Merton]

55 minutes ago, Quilly said:

I've seen KT150s used by a boutique amp builder in the states. Apparently you can per 70W per valve. I read somewhere in the past that they're difficult to get and can be a tad unreliable . 

(only Tung-sol make them as far as I know). Would this be a viable option at all for use in a small amp https://upscaleaudio.com/products/tung-sol-kt-150

On the basis of them being potentially unreliable and difficult to get hold of, I’d say not..

[Nickthebass]

2 hours ago, Merton said:

Valve amps don’t do min load like solid state amps, they prefer lower rather than higher impedances. I’d avoid the word “min” basically. 🤓

For me the 4 ohm tap would have two parallel jack/speakons, with a box saying “1x4 ohm or 2x 8 ohm” and the 8 ohm likewise but “1x 8 ohm or 2x 16 ohm” 

🙂

Works for me. 

[Nickthebass]

2 hours ago, Merton said:

All that being said, if we’re trying to keep the footprint small, having so many speaker outs doesn’t quite sit on the same brief for me 😅

Speaking personally - any outs other than a DI and Speakons are a waste of space. If it were up to me …

 

Front panel - one input (with a pad if you must) and DI out (before pre-amp, after pre-amp) with a ground lift

 

Rear panel - 4 Speakon / jack combo outs (2 each on 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps). DI out off the power amp.

 

[eude]

14 minutes ago, Nickthebass said:

Front panel - one input (with a pad if you must) and DI out (before pre-amp, after pre-amp) with a ground lift

I reckon a trim control, rather than a pad is a much more sensible idea, as it would allow you to get the optimum response from the input.

I doubt a little pot for this would take up any more room than a pad switch too.

I do agree that less is more here though, I've never used a send/return in my life  

[Matt P]

I used to have an Orange tiny terror (the 15w all valve guitar one) and it had 3 speaker jacks on the back, a 16 ohm, and a pair for 8ohm, so if you had a single 16ohm cab you connected to the 16 ohm socket, for a pair of 16's then you plugged them both into the 8ohm sockets, and for a single 8 ohm it went into one of the 8 ohm sockets.

 

could a similar thing be done here? a single 8ohm labeled one (for a single 8ohm cab) and then a pair labeled as min 4 ohm for either a pair of 8ohm cabs or a single 4ohm, this would save a tiny bit of space and still cover the required options, if someone had 16ohm cabs then they'd need to daisy-chain them or use a special cable, I don't think there are many 16ohm options when it comes to bass-specific cabs (feel free to make me look silly by listing all the 16ohm cabs available)

 

Using the combo speakon/jack sockets would be my preference (even though all my cables are speakon)

[Sparky Mark]

This thread is becoming a text book example of design by committee.

[Merton]

31 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said:

This thread is becoming a text book example of design by committee.

 

Haha, I had a very similar thought. My original request to Martin was a simple small footprint 100W valve head with 3 band EQ.

That was it. Was content to let the finer aspects be left to the man designing and building. I do like some of the ideas floating around here and very much appreciate Martin’s input and ideas here. I’m confident we’ll end up with a pretty fine little amp but there will be a fair few people saying either “I wanted this” or “I wouldn’t have done that”. We can’t please everyone.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Merton

[Pea Turgh]

Let the designer design, I say!

[Matt P]

I'm looking for the same thing that @Merton asked for in the initial talks, a small footprint simple amp with a 3 band eq, if it can have a di then that's great but for me the simpler the amp the better.

 

@Stonehamknows what he is doing so I'm very happy to leave the finer points to his expertise.

 

Matt 

[dmccombe7]

9 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said:

Let the designer design, I say!

Agree 100%

Dave

[la bam]

I think it's ok and a bit of fun to put ideas forward, that way it helps the designer if theres something that everyone wants or doesnt want, or is essential for gigging / use that the designer may have not included that is an easy fix.

[eude]

1 hour ago, Pea Turgh said:

Let the designer design, I say!

As a designer, albeit not of amps, I could not agree more!

[franzbassist]

If we can have a clean 100 watts of valve goodness then colour me interested

[dmccombe7]

I guess if it wasn't for @Merton making the suggestion in first place then maybe Stoneham wouldn't have picked this one up at all.

If the designer picks up on a suggestion he thinks is worthwhile i'm sure he'll install it in the new amp.

I like the idea of a company making the amp that bassists are asking for altho it does become a wish list more than anything else.

I guess we like to dream a little. 

Dave

[JapanAxe]

9 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I guess if it wasn't for @Merton making the suggestion in first place then maybe Stoneham wouldn't have picked this one up at all.

If the designer picks up on a suggestion he thinks is worthwhile i'm sure he'll install it in the new amp.

I like the idea of a company making the amp that bassists are asking for altho it does become a wish list more than anything else.

I guess we like to dream a little. 

Dave

I'm guessing the coffee-maker attachment won't make it to the final design...