Low Tension Flats, an inherent issue?

[yorks5stringer]

I have a Nordstrand Acinonyx Bass and since fitting it with LaBella low tension flats have found the A string chokes out after around 10 hours of playing. The grub screws in the saddle seem to loosen over time. Nordstrand advise that one ensures the Tuner windings are as low as possible ( check) and the string ballends are located at the very bottom of the bridge (check) but still this happens. The only solution is blue loctite on the grub screws.

So my questions for the learned BC collective are:

1. Is this really a thing, can grub screws undo themselves due to sonic forces?

2. Are the low tension flats the issue in that they maybe don't press down enough on the saddle?

 

Oh and the A and D string have a break angle button on the headstock too.

 

Any ideas please?

[Quilly]

8 hours ago, yorks5stringer said:

I have a Nordstrand Acinonyx Bass and since fitting it with LaBella low tension flats have found the A string chokes out after around 10 hours of playing. The grub screws in the saddle seem to loosen over time. Nordstrand advise that one ensures the Tuner windings are as low as possible ( check) and the string ballends are located at the very bottom of the bridge (check) but still this happens. The only solution is blue loctite on the grub screws.

So my questions for the learned BC collective are:

1. Is this really a thing, can grub screws undo themselves due to sonic forces?

2. Are the low tension flats the issue in that they maybe don't press down enough on the saddle?

 

Oh and the A and D string have a break angle button on the headstock too.

 

Any ideas please?

I've low tension flats on my precision player and I love them , never had an issue with them. played a few long gigs with no issues. 

[4000]

I’ve seen plenty of basses where the grub screws move over time. None of them had low tension flats. Used to happen with my old P Bass. 

[SlapbassSteve]

Definitely sounds like more of a bridge issue... Jazzmaster and Jaguar guitars for example are notoriously bad for the bridge height adjuster screws coming loose over time and the action sinking. Threadlock is usually the magic bullet, worth using whether it needs it or not on certain hardware... what's odd here is this only started after changing to flats.

My guess would be some grime that had been holding the grubscrews in place shook loose during the string change..!

[yorks5stringer]

15 hours ago, SlapbassSteve said:

Definitely sounds like more of a bridge issue... Jazzmaster and Jaguar guitars for example are notoriously bad for the bridge height adjuster screws coming loose over time and the action sinking. Threadlock is usually the magic bullet, worth using whether it needs it or not on certain hardware... what's odd here is this only started after changing to flats.

My guess would be some grime that had been holding the grubscrews in place shook loose during the string change..!

There's no grime on my grubscrews! Seriously, it was less than 12 months old when I got it and everything was very clean. One possible suggestion was that the tooling to make the thread in the saddle was worn?

[Intoutof]

This can happen on any bass it seems. My USA G&L SB-2 has this issue....weirdly it seems to be far worse in the summer and screws have worked themselves loose about 20 mins into the gig (I'm in Cambridgeshire...not exactly tropical)

I use clear nail lacquer instead of locktite.

[fretmeister]

It can happen to virtually all bridges.

The only ones that seem immune are those with dedicated screws to lock the saddle in place after adjustment.

 

I'd suggest either a tiny drop of loctite or a tiny bit of plumbers tape.

[Baloney Balderdash]

Not all bridges are made absolutely 100% perfectly equal, that goes even for otherwise high end same model bridges as well.

 

And a lot of factors that can cause this.

 

Also the bridge on those basses are not exactly high tech, which is fully intentional and part of the overall aesthetics of that bass, which probably does increase the risk of something like this happening.

 

Just one of those things that can happen and one have to accept and learn to live with.

 

It's not the end of the world, just use Loctite. 

 

Or you could swap out the stock bridge for a more high tech modern bridge with screws that locks the saddles in place once adjusted and totally ruin the aesthetics of the bass, your choice.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[yorks5stringer]

I've done the Loctite job so we'll see how it goes, it literally takes 20 seconds when it bottoms out to wind it back up again so I've even done inbetween songs as I carry the right size tool.

[Sibob]

You probably also don't have a lot of leeway with regards to your setup compared to a higher-tension situation. 

By that I mean that a shortscale is low tension by nature due to the scale length, combined with low tension strings.

Compounded by a potential issue with the bridge/saddle maybe not being at its optimum.

 

Ultimately it seems like it could be a few things that you'll need to experiment with, as opposed to it being the strings alone.

 

Si

[rmorris]

All good advice on here imo re loctite and bridges etc.

But...have you thought about replacing the grub screws themselves ?

I'm not certain about grub screw tolerances but with machine screws there are at least three degrees (make your own musically related comments heer 🙂) of tolerance - basically loose / medium / tight. Standard default is the medium but tight may be an option if available. alternatively it could be a loose tolerance thread in the saddle.

[yorks5stringer]

Spoke to Nordstrand who said  there was a low incidence of this being reported and the pragmatic/recommended solution was Loctite Blue. As the other incidence reported  was also an A string saddle it was suggested by others the tooling may be worn. Anyway, my Bass was pre-loved so I was on shaky ground for free replacements. Amusingly Nordstrand  said they had sent out one set of replacement grub screws or saddles to someone who had used Loctite Red and could not then move them at all!

Edited August 16, 2022 by yorks5stringer

[rmorris]

6 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

Amusingly Nordstrand  said they had sent out one set of replacement grub screws or saddles to someone who had used Loctite Red and could not then move them at all!

 

yeah - I'm used to the Loctite threadlock products from industrial use although I couldn't quote the colours now. But you do need to use the one that just "holds it in place* against vibration as opposed to a moderately strong adhesive. The colour also acts as an anti-tamper warranty thing - basically users trying to improve something themselves . messing it up and then making a warranty claim.

Cheap nail polish/varnisg also works pretty well. But it lacks "professional credibility".

Good Luck.