Sire Upgrades Advice please

[uk_lefty]

Hi... So for years whenever someone says "if you buy a Sire V7 you must upgrade the bridge and tuners!" I always said No, my V7 was perfectly adequate. Well, I sold that V7 but later got myself a V9. It sounds and feels great and it's my go-to for Weddings and other gigs where I don't need the ballsy Stingray sound. However... The tuners aren't great. They don't hold tune as well as I would expect so I'm looking to upgrade them. The bridge looks and feels a bit of a cheap afterthought too. I'm quite surprised seeing as my generation 1 V7 was more reliable. Nevertheless, it's a very good sounding bass so I'd like to swap out the tuners and bridge. 

 

Any advice on which tuners people have used before would be gratefully received. I've seen YouTube videos where someone has got Hipshots but had to rig something to fill a few mm in the headstock holes and I'm not so keen on doing that, though I've had it before on an old Fender. 

 

For the bridge I'm even thinking of the single rail thingys but only because I like the look.

[neepheid]

Yum, press fit bushings

 

It all depends on which tuners you want - if you want to try to reuse the currently pressed in bushings (not an awful idea if they're pressed in good and tight and haven't lifted under string tension), or rip everything out and get tuners with screw fit bushings.

 

What's bothering you about the bridge?  Looks like a BBOT with chunkier saddles, or am I looking at the wrong bass?

[lemmywinks]

I replaced the standard bridge with a Gotoh 404BO which is great, also solved the issue of the original saddles being overly long and creating a sharp angle on the string thru holes. They have 19mm on the 4 and 18mm for the 5 and the string through holes match, you'll need to drill new screw holes though.

 

Looks like the Gotoh design has changed slightly since then and they now use longer saddles so YMMV. A good budget bridge upgade for Sires would be to just get better saddles and intonation screws.

 

 

For tuners I put a set of Schallers on mine (they were cheap second hand) although Ultralites might be a good option for weight saving. Realistically the tuners are the only thing that really need upgrading unless you have a mechanical issue with the bridge, this was more common on the early ones IIRC.

Edited July 22, 2022 by lemmywinks

[Bassassin]

I have a gen 1 V7 fretless and don't understand the negativity surrounding the tuners - unless earlier ones were different, they're accurate & nice quality Grover 142 clones with adjustable torque. I do wonder if some people have slippage issues and they've not noticed the adjustment screw?

 

 

No issues with the functionality of the bridge on mine, although I'm slightly (I'm sure needlessly) uncomfortable with the vintage type threaded saddles & flatwounds.

[lemmywinks]

33 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

I have a gen 1 V7 fretless and don't understand the negativity surrounding the tuners - unless earlier ones were different, they're accurate & nice quality Grover 142 clones with adjustable torque. I do wonder if some people have slippage issues and they've not noticed the adjustment screw?

 

 

No issues with the functionality of the bridge on mine, although I'm slightly (I'm sure needlessly) uncomfortable with the vintage type threaded saddles & flatwounds.

 

Tuners on mine (Gen1 V7 Alder) were very cheap feeling and didn't hold their tuning all that well, functional up to a point but definitely felt like some corners had been cut. Dunno if the newer ones are any better, tbh if I wanted to upgrade a Sire on a budget now I'd probably just import a Guyker/Jin Ho set for £20-£25.

 

RE bridges some people had issues with the through body holes being too close to the intonation points of the saddles, particularly on the early standard V7 4 string (the 5er had a slightly different style of bridge) and the vintage (threaded saddle) 5er. I think they may have had issues with bridge/through hole placement on the early vintage V7, look at this one from a different thread:

 

On my regular V7 5 string it was fine if a little bit too close to vertical on the B string for my liking due to the saddles being overly long behind the break point of the string. There were also a couple of people who had the intonation screws break in the early runs of the V7, assume this was sorted quickly as I haven't heard of it since.

Edited July 22, 2022 by lemmywinks

[Bonin-in-the boneyard]

I put a Fender high mass bridge on my v7 fretless 

 

[uk_lefty]

10 hours ago, neepheid said:

What's bothering you about the bridge?  Looks like a BBOT with chunkier saddles, or am I looking at the wrong bass?

It's just a bit uninspiring to look at.... I know, shallow.

[uk_lefty]

7 hours ago, Bassassin said:

don't understand the negativity surrounding the tuners - unless earlier ones were different,

I never understood it either. 4 years ago I bought a first gen V7 and the tuners felt a bit cheap but held perfectly. I've now got a second gen V9 and it detuned itself during gigs. I'd like to have tuners that hold. May as well go lightweight too because it's a big beast to get through the length of gigs I save that bass for.

[Rich]

The tuners on my first gen V7 fiver weren't brilliant either. They held tune ok but felt flimsy. I replaced them with a Hipshot licenced HB6 1/2" set -- they had the twin improvements of feeling much smoother and saving half a pound in weight over the old set. Which is a hell of a lot when you think about it! I had to pad out the headstock holes a bit, I forget what I used -- gimme a break, it's been a few years and I'm old  -- and I had to fill the old screw holes on the back of the headstock. Glue and toothpicks did the trick as per the pic, I've trimmed them completely flush since the photo was taken and they've not quite disappeared but almost.

The stock bridge is ok, if unremarkable. I've bought a new bridge as per the second pic -- I've used this type on a previous bass and was very pleased with it, everything locks down solid and unmoving and it offers string-through and top-loading options. I haven't fitted it yet but will do so when I get the time.

My other hardware mod was to replace the utterly rubbish bar-type string retainer with the two Hipshot items in the third pic. Much, much better. As in, loads. I would heartily recommend this mod.

 

[lemmywinks]

18 minutes ago, Rich said:

The tuners on my first gen V7 fiver weren't brilliant either. They held tune ok but felt flimsy. I replaced them with a Hipshot licenced HB6 1/2" set -- they had the twin improvements of feeling much smoother and saving half a pound in weight over the old set. Which is a hell of a lot when you think about it! I had to pad out the headstock holes a bit, I forget what I used -- gimme a break, it's been a few years and I'm old  -- and I had to fill the old screw holes on the back of the headstock. Glue and toothpicks did the trick as per the pic, I've trimmed them completely flush since the photo was taken and they've not quite disappeared but almost.

The stock bridge is ok, if unremarkable. I've bought a new bridge as per the second pic -- I've used this type on a previous bass and was very pleased with it, everything locks down solid and unmoving and it offers string-through and top-loading options. I haven't fitted it yet but will do so when I get the time.

My other hardware mod was to replace the utterly rubbish bar-type string retainer with the two Hipshot items in the third pic. Much, much better. As in, loads. I would heartily recommend this mod.

 

 

If I hang on to my Sire I'll 100% be getting those string retainers, the bar thing annoys the hell out of me!

[lemmywinks]

In fact @Rich do you have a pic with yours installed?

[PaulThePlug]

Tuners...

These are nice and reasonable...

https://www.northwestguitars.co.uk/4-x-open-back-bass-tuners-for-right-handed-bass-guitar/

Screw hols were bang-on for what i needed so was extra handy... Aria Pro Jazz

[Rich]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

In fact @Rich do you have a pic with yours installed?

Here y'go

 

[lemmywinks]

7 minutes ago, Rich said:

Here y'go

 

 

Nice one cheers!

 

Have a planned bass purchase coming up and I'm still undecided about keeping the Sire as a backup or not. Originally intended to put all the stock parts back on and sell the lot but then I played it for a bit and had second thoughts, as you do.

[Machines]

6 hours ago, Bonin-in-the boneyard said:

I put a Fender high mass bridge on my v7 fretless 

 

 

What's the string spacing ? I had a wide spacing Fender Himass one my BB415 and it was fine, but too wide for the my Sire V5's neck and the strings were right on the edge of the board at the top fret. Put the stock one back on until I find something else. 

 

On topic for this tread, Ernie Ball B strings do not fit through the string hole where it overwraps near the ballend. I have about an inch sticking out behind the bridge - oddly stable.

[Bassassin]

12 hours ago, PaulThePlug said:

Tuners...

These are nice and reasonable...

https://www.northwestguitars.co.uk/4-x-open-back-bass-tuners-for-right-handed-bass-guitar/

Screw hols were bang-on for what i needed so was extra handy... Aria Pro Jazz

 

Those are the actual tuners fitted as standard to my first gen MM V7! Grover 142 clones with torque screws.

 

 

I have an Aria STB-GT, doesn't really need new tuners but these are nice...

[lemmywinks]

5 hours ago, Bassassin said:

 

Those are the actual tuners fitted as standard to my first gen MM V7! Grover 142 clones with torque screws.

 

 

I have an Aria STB-GT, doesn't really need new tuners but these are nice...

 

Here's what was fitted to my Sire V7 Gen1, different tuners

 

[Bassassin]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Here's what was fitted to my Sire V7 Gen1, different tuners

 

 

They definitely look like generic low-end parts.  When I got mine I assumed from everything I'd read about crap hardware on Sires that they must've started fitting better components.

 

Bought mine just a few months before the Gen 2s appeared so it's maybe more of a Gen 1.5!

[lemmywinks]

14 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

 

They definitely look like generic low-end parts.  When I got mine I assumed from everything I'd read about crap hardware on Sires that they must've started fitting better components.

 

Bought mine just a few months before the Gen 2s appeared so it's maybe more of a Gen 1.5!

 

Mine is earlier than that, I bought it used well before Gen 2 was announced so maybe they did start sourcing better ones. They work, just not as well as good quality tuners and there's a bit of play in the tuning key.

 

I wonder if the Gen 2 all have the nicer ones.

[Rich]

16 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Mine is earlier than that, I bought it used well before Gen 2 was announced so maybe they did start sourcing better ones.

Likewise, my gen 1 fiver is a very early one.