Am I being unrealistic?

[jazzmanb]

We're all old timers ,we like a laugh and are really laid back 

as in  we don't get stressed or moan about stuff .We'll let anything go ONCE .late for gig, forget a song ,drunk,duff lead,duff amp etc  ,etc etc 

What we will not take is slackers ,liars and people who dont respect the others .We have good gear and learn stuff in time to get the job done 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

9 minutes ago, stewblack said:

How you are as a person, how you interact with others - these are the absolute most important things and they will be the things that get you work and repeat bookings.

I think I'd probably factor in how the band sounds as one of, if not the most important things. If guitard doesn't get his act together = game over.

Edited July 26, 2022 by hiram.k.hackenbacker

[Happy Jack]

Sorry Billy, but I think Stew may be right on this.

 

With just four years under your belt, I'd suggest you get involved with one or more other bands at the same time as this one.

 

Not only will your bass playing improve faster and stretch out more, but the more musos you play with the more you'll get to see that most of them are pretty much like this. And there ain't no law against being in more than one band at a time, especially if they're not gigging anyway.

 

Doesn't necessarily improve your temper, but you'll likely end up thinking less that the grass will be greener with a different crew.

 

 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

2 minutes ago, jazzmanb said:

We're all old timers ,we like a laugh and are really laid back 

as in  we don't get stressed or moan about stuff .We'll let anything go ONCE .late for gig, forget a song ,drunk,duff lead,duff amp etc  ,etc etc 

What we will not take is slackers ,liars and people who dont respect the others .We have good gear and learn stuff in time to get the job done 

Quite right and as described by the OP, it's a conversation that has been had many times by the sounds of it, which is a lack of respect.

[jonnybass]

48 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

….and I really don’t get this ‘it depends what you want out of it’ train of thought. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to be in a scenario where they have a guitarist that can’t be bothered to put in the work. I’d end up hating every minute I was in their company.

Surely it's possible to play music for fun?  if so maybe homework isnt needed?  Personally unless its a professional set up, id rather play with people who are enjoying it, over people who are fretting over whether we have all learned note for note the 2002 Glastonbury live version of blah blah...but it does to me depend on the purpose of the band.  In this case it sounds like someone has a different direction to someone else, so it needs to be aired. 

 

 

 

Jonny

[Sibob]

I'd just bail and see if the previous drummer wanted to do something, find some musicians who do want to take it seriously.

 

Si

[Sibob]

10 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

Surely it's possible to play music for fun?  if so maybe homework isnt needed?  Personally unless its a professional set up, id rather play with people who are enjoying it, over people who are fretting over whether we have all learned note for note the 2002 Glastonbury live version of blah blah...but it does to me depend on the purpose of the band.  In this case it sounds like someone has a different direction to someone else, so it needs to be aired. 

 

 

 

Jonny

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. 

Two different types of musicians, those who have fun by being in good bands, and those who have fun by being in bands who aren't fussed about being good.

Both are legitimate....if you like.......just gotta choose your lane.

 

Si

[Crusoe]

2 minutes ago, Sibob said:

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. 

Two different types of musicians, those who have fun by being in good bands, and those who have fun by being in bands who aren't fussed about being good.

Both are legitimate....if you like.......just gotta choose your lane.

 

Si

The OP did say that the goal was to play live.

[jonnybass]

6 minutes ago, Sibob said:

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. 

Two different types of musicians, those who have fun by being in good bands, and those who have fun by being in bands who aren't fussed about being good.

Both are legitimate....if you like.......just gotta choose your lane.

 

Si

Agree its why a chat is needed, perhaps the guitarist doesn't realise the expectations, or the OP doesnt realise they are the one with a different vision.

 

Jonny

[Sibob]

1 minute ago, jonnybass said:

Agree its why a chat is needed, perhaps the guitarist doesn't realise the expectations, or the OP doesnt realise they are the one with a different vision.

 

Jonny

I feel like the guitarist probably should realise if the OP has been consistently asking them to help the band be good haha.

Similarly, the singer sounds like she's equally not fussed.

If there was a connection with the original drummer who has bailed because of the others.....follow that.

 

Si

[jonnybass]

I totally agree, personally I'd be working out what was in the set up for me.  Is the drummer great to practice with?  Has the singer got great connections for more exciting work?  Is this my only chance to practice with others?  or is there nothing in it for me.

 

If theres nothing, i'd say goodbye, as politely as possible, and say why i was leaving, then leave.

 

Jonny

 

[BillyBass]

Many thanks for all the replies.

 

To give a bit more information, and answer a point @Happy Jackmade above, I joined a second band a couple of months ago.  No singer yet (auditioning one in August) but the drummer and guitarist are both pretty much on the same page as me.  This helps me put my other band in perspective.  

 

Up until our singer had a little chat with me yesterday I had no idea that me nagging the guitarist made her more uncomfortable than the guitarist did when he stopped the rehearsal to check his phone, cancel rehearsals at short notice or whine about having to travel more than a short cycle ride from his house to do anything band related.

 

I have invested a lot of effort in this band and we were nearly there before our drummer left.  I realise, as I type this, that a large part of the reason we are 'nearly' there is a lack of commitment from the guitarist.

 

[fretmeister]

If the guitarist hasn't learnt the tunes maybe he could just sight read them.

 

Oh. He's a guitarist.

 

As you were.

 

 

[Skybone]

Sounds like you need to vote with your feet on that band. 

 

The other band sounds far more interesting.

 

Are you still friendly with the drummer that left? Maybe get in touch with them, and get something else going.

[fretmeister]

Even for fun bands I've done the learning is at home, rehearsal is for rehearsal approach.

 

Ok, that's all a bit different with originals as until the song is finished every sessions is a bit of a re-write / re-arrangement but these days with free DAWS and smart phones riffs can be recorded and emailed round in minutes. When I started I had my dad's old dictaphone for riffs and then later a Yamaha MT50 4 track tape recorder!

 

So I'm very much on the side of turning up prepared to rehearse, having already learned the song at home.

[Woodinblack]

57 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

Surely it's possible to play music for fun?  if so maybe homework isnt needed? 

 

Then why are you playing music? If you don't want to play, then there is no point playing at home, granted, but why is there a point playing anywhere?

 

57 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

Personally unless its a professional set up, id rather play with people who are enjoying it, over people who are fretting over whether we have all learned note for note the 2002 Glastonbury live version of blah blah..

 

I think you are mixing things up, such as learning a song and being able to play something.

When I play, the only thing that frustrates me is when the guitarist (and it is always the guitarist or keyboard player) hasn't worked out the song at all, and expects us to just hang around while they learn it. Maybe it is fun for you having to play the start of the same song 20 times while they work out what they are supposed to be playing, but I don't see any fun in that at all for me. They don't have to play like the record, or any specific version if they have their own idea how it should be played - I doubt we play anything like the record, if they are good enough to either wing it and get it close enough or do their own interpretation of it, that is fine, as long as we don't have to spend time repeating and repeating - I have been in those groups, they never go anyway, and they are never fun.

[BigRedX]

As you have got to the stage where you need to vent on the internet where anyone else in the band can also read it, then these are probably not the musicians you want to playing with at this stage in your musical "career". If it's your band sack the musicians who don't agree with you, and if it's not leave and find some who have the same objectives as you do.

[jonnybass]

11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Then why are you playing music? If you don't want to play, then there is no point playing at home, granted, but why is there a point playing anywhere?

 

 

I think you are mixing things up, such as learning a song and being able to play something.

When I play, the only thing that frustrates me is when the guitarist (and it is always the guitarist or keyboard player) hasn't worked out the song at all, and expects us to just hang around while they learn it. Maybe it is fun for you having to play the start of the same song 20 times while they work out what they are supposed to be playing, but I don't see any fun in that at all for me. They don't have to play like the record, or any specific version if they have their own idea how it should be played - I doubt we play anything like the record, if they are good enough to either wing it and get it close enough or do their own interpretation of it, that is fine, as long as we don't have to spend time repeating and repeating - I have been in those groups, they never go anyway, and they are never fun.

So should I just sit down and stay at home because i think playing should sometimes be about fun? Who made you the music police?....that's really not very cool.

 

I dont consider the be all and end all of my music playing to be defined by anyone else, but by me and what I want to get from it, if its a wedding gig learn the songs, if its fun, jam/sketch the songs or just play, if its original write, practice and perform.  But everyone in the band needs to think the same thing.

 

I said that they need to work out what the band is for.  in a band of 4 people 50% think the OP is being too heavy on learning songs, which suggests at the very least that 50% have a different idea of the direction to the other 50%.    So they need to chat it through.

 

Jonny

 

 

[Rich]

Not at all unrealistic. I could never be in a band with someone like your guitarist. It would drive.me.bonkers. Do the singer and guitarist want to gig? If so, Mr G needs to get his sheeite together unless he wants you to look like an under-rehearsed shambles. If they don't want to gig, you're wasting your time. A proper sit-down meeting is required for all of you, so you can work out what everyone actually wants from the band, before you go to all the effort of getting a new drummist on board.

[Nicko]

52 minutes ago, BillyBass said:

Up until our singer had a little chat with me yesterday I had no idea that me nagging the guitarist made her more uncomfortable than the guitarist did when he stopped the rehearsal to check his phone, cancel rehearsals at short notice or whine about having to travel more than a short cycle ride from his house to do anything band related.

 

I have invested a lot of effort in this band and we were nearly there before our drummer left.  I realise, as I type this, that a large part of the reason we are 'nearly' there is a lack of commitment from the guitarist.

I'm surprised you were "nearly there" given the attitude of the guitarist.

 

Something that hasn't been discussed here is what workload you are giving the band.  In 2 years a decent set of songs should be under your belt and there shouldn't necessarily be a need to learn a new song every week - unless you all want to or are bored with the stuff you already know.

[Woodinblack]

21 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

So should I just sit down and stay at home because i think playing should sometimes be about fun?

 

I really have no clue what you are talking about there, sorry.

I think playing should always be fun. I just don't find it fun if the other people can't play what we are trying to play. I don't find it fun doing the same thing over and over again because someone else cant be bothered to learn it, or is not skilled enough to wing it.

 

21 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

I dont consider the be all and end all of my music playing to be defined by anyone else, but by me and what I want to get from it, if its a wedding gig learn the songs, if its fun, jam/sketch the songs or just play, if its original write, practice and perform.  But everyone in the band needs to think the same thing.

 

Agreed - I have already said that, and as you said, if you can jam the song, then that is fine, noone is having to wait for you to do something.

 

21 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

I said that they need to work out what the band is for.  in a band of 4 people 50% think the OP is being too heavy on learning songs, which suggests at the very least that 50% have a different idea of the direction to the other 50%.    So they need to chat it through.

 

Indeed - although I am not sure that there is much to chat through, I think they want different things from the band, and those things are probably incompatible. But talking is a good start, rather than just getting annoyed.

 

Not sure what the argument is here, I don't think we are actually disagreeing anywhere here apart from maybe our idea of what learning a song is - I rarely do note for note, as long as the general idea is there.

[jonnybass]

Tbh, seems like a mix up then @Woodinblackapologies amigo I must have grabbed the wrong end of the stick with enthusiasm.

 

I have been in bands where "note for note' was required...it was terrible stilted performances and bad practicing, never again.  

 

Be interested to hear how the chat between the band members goes.

 

Jonny

[BillyBass]

9 minutes ago, Nicko said:

I'm surprised you were "nearly there" given the attitude of the guitarist.

 

Something that hasn't been discussed here is what workload you are giving the band.  In 2 years a decent set of songs should be under your belt and there shouldn't necessarily be a need to learn a new song every week - unless you all want to or are bored with the stuff you already know.

Although I am the one doing all of the organising, it's not 'my' band and I've tried to keep it as democratic as possible but it hasn't really worked.

 

I've been playing with the drummer since the day lockdown no.1 ended.  The guitarist came along early in 2021, March I think and we've had a few breaks with singers coming and going (no.1's visa ran out, no.2 moved out of London, no.3 we kicked out and then no.1 got a work permit and returned to the UK and rejoined us).  We have learnt and dropped quite a few songs, often due to the guitarist not being happy with them for one reason or another (he's a rhythm guitarist, sometimes not comfortable with lead bits).  We then had about 28 songs almost ready to go, and the drummer left.  New drummer to audition on Friday and we have added 2 of his songs.  I'm not giving anyone a workload, the added songs have been agreed by all of us and I have made a point of letting all of us choose some.

 

The guitarist has a thick skin and I really don't think it has registered that I'm not happy.  I am not aggressive or angry, I just nag a bit after sessions.  The singer is obviously sensitive to it but knows I'm unhappy as I tell her regularly (we work together, she is my part time trainee).

[Nicko]

11 minutes ago, BillyBass said:

We have learnt and dropped quite a few songs, often due to the guitarist not being happy with them for one reason or another (he's a rhythm guitarist, sometimes not comfortable with lead bits).

I suspect a part of the issue is that the guitarist is too weak/polite to say that he doesn't want to do certain songs, and then when he's at home he doesn't want to learn them.

 

Having said that if you've got to 28 songs to gig standard,  having learnt others that were dropped, with rhythm guitarist playing lead, in a little over a year with a few breaks looking for personnel then he can't be slacking that much.  Maybe your expectation of his behaviour is a little unrealistic if you are going in there and treating it like a job and the others are treating it like a hobby.

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, Nicko said:

I suspect a part of the issue is that the guitarist is too weak/polite to say that he doesn't want to do certain songs, and then when he's at home he doesn't want to learn them.

 

I have had that, a guitarist that would just 'forget' that we were doing various songs because he didn't want to do them in the first place, or didn't like them. Which is fine if you say up front - there are several songs that at least one of us dislikes in the band, and some only survive because one of us really likes them.

 

9 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Having said that if you've got to 28 songs to gig standard,  having learnt others that were dropped, with rhythm guitarist playing lead, in a little over a year with a few breaks looking for personnel then he can't be slacking that much. 

 

If you have 28 songs to gig what is tthe issue, go out and gig them!

 

32 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

I have been in bands where "note for note' was required...it was terrible stilted performances and bad practicing, never again.  

 

I have too - what is the point of that, they might as well go home and listen to the record! Most of our songs start close but after a while they tend to drift our own way. In fact, if note for note is required, what is the point of band practice - if everyone has it note for note it should be perfect anyway