Am I being unrealistic?

[Nicko]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

if note for note is required, what is the point of band practice

I always played note for note, not necessarily the right notes, or in the right order.

[dclaassen]

4 hours ago, stewblack said:

Chill out man. It's not up to you how other people work, you can only keep your side of the street clean.

How you are as a person, how you interact with others - these are the absolute most important things and they will be the things that get you work and repeat bookings. The singer has already said it makes her uncomfortable - a big warning bell should have rung right then.

I've been in part time bands with people who try to control everyone else and it never works. Unless they set up and run the band by their rules and this is clear from the get go, in which case I suck it up or leave depending on their ability to get me work.

Even then no one tells me how to work, how to learn songs, whether I can have chord charts or not. It simply isn't their business.

In lol my years of playing, I’ve never seen this attitude of “you can’t tell me what to do” help a band get better. 

[ezbass]

2 hours ago, jonnybass said:

 I must have grabbed the wrong end of the stick with enthusiasm.

I’m stealing that!

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

35 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

In lol my years of playing, I’ve never seen this attitude of “you can’t tell me what to do” help a band get better. 

Absolutely. There are quite a few scenarios I could imagine where saying that would be detrimental to one’s playing career.

[TheLowDown]

8 hours ago, BillyBass said:

I've been a bassist for 4 years.  For the last two years I've been rehearsing regularly with a drummer and for most of that time we've been in a 4 piece with a guitarist and a few different singers.  The drummer and I were on the same page, both started playing at about the same time and our goal was to play live.  The guitarist doesn't practise much at home and often wings rehearsals, getting his phone out before songs to remind him how the song goes.  I regularly nag the guitarist to practise at home but it falls on deaf ears.  Our drummer just bailed.  I found a new drummer very quickly and we will audition him on Friday.  

 

I met the singer yesterday and she asked me to stop nagging the guitarist as this is a just bit of fun and I'm not making it pleasant for her.  She is used to flaky musicians and doesn't find the guitarist's behaviour to be out of order.

 

For me this isn't just fun though.  I take it very seriously, I practise at home constantly and in some ways, treat the band like I treat my business: if it is to be done it has to be done properly.

 

Am I being unrealistic?  Should I just be grateful I am in a band and not take it so seriously?

 

I've invested a lot of time in this band and walking away would be a big step but I don't seem to be on the same page as the guitarist and singer.

 

Any advice from you seasoned band members would be welcome.

 

 

 

 

It would be fine if his decision to be lax doesn't impact on anyone else, but it does. So I don't think you're being unrealistic.

[Munurmunuh]

8 hours ago, stewblack said:

Chill out man.

 

8 hours ago, stewblack said:

Even then no one tells me how to work

 

I've worked in circles where making a single mistake once you're in the room with the other musicians is deeply disappointing, and a second is out of the question. Could it have been more chilled? Very much so. Would the quality have been remotely comparable? Ahahahaha. If the OP wants to be ambitious and push himself, and work with like minded people, his existence doesn't threaten your lifestyle. Chill out, eh?

[Downunderwonder]

If the band is as far along as you say then it really only needs a new guitarist to jump in. I would hit an open mic with the singer and see if you can't hook up with a spare one. Then grab the drummer back.

[miles'tone]

You need to find other musicians to play with, one's that are better than you are. The best case scenario is being in a band where you are the weakest link (initially) so that the only thing holding you back is how much work you yourself put into it. That's the easiest problem to address.

[musicbassman]

10 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

I've worked in circles where making a single mistake once you're in the room with the other musicians is deeply disappointing, and a second is out of the question.

It would have done me the world of good to have been put in pressurised situations like this when I was younger, so maybe the great musos I was fortunate enough to work with over the years I was pro were just too polite to point out any shortcomings in my playing.

I would have railed against it at the time, but working with a bossy or mildly threatening MD or BL would have got my chops up to speed much more quickly than any number of kind words !

Didn't James Brown use to fine his band members for bum notes ?

[Passinwind]

20 hours ago, BillyBass said:

Am I being unrealistic?  Should I just be grateful I am in a band and not take it so seriously?

 

I've invested a lot of time in this band and walking away would be a big step but I don't seem to be on the same page as the guitarist and singer.

 

Any advice from you seasoned band members would be welcome.

 

 

 

 

IMO it's generally not realistic to expect people to change just to meet your particular wants and needs. And in my experience that works both ways, I don't see you changing your wants and needs either. 😉

[Japhet]

Welcome to the world of band politics. It's extremely difficult to find a group of people with the same work ethic, level of ability, vision of the future, level of acceptance of multiple things, availability to gig/rehearse, willingness to compromise, willingness to put their hand in their pocket etc. etc etc.. 

 

It's a minefield. Good luck!

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, Japhet said:

Welcome to the world of band politics. It's extremely difficult to find a group of people with the same work ethic, level of ability, vision of the future, level of acceptance of multiple things, availability to gig/rehearse, willingness to compromise, willingness to put their hand in their pocket etc. etc etc.. 

 

It's a minefield. Good luck!

I don't know that it's all that difficult. It just takes a bit of clear communication from the outset. If people go along with the plan but fail to deliver they get cut or the band folds.

 

The problems come from trying to make incompatible folks change.

 

My big band has cut a couple of players over the years. Both nice people who loved being in the band but not getting their parts down = public friendly g' up from MD followed by ''hope to cya in the audience'' when that didn't work.

[Cat Burrito]

Sounds like you have outgrown the band. It's like any relationship, starts off great and then the mild irritations become more of an issue. The singer doesn't mind the guitarist being under rehearsed and you do. I'd discreetly start looking to jump ship, personally. 

 

I practice a lot now too but I have also (years ago) been the one who doesn't practice. If it's not an issue, great, but if it is, it will need to be addressed. The other band members might wish to come with you but sadly there is no guarantee. The singer has already suggested that "it is just a bit of fun". Sounds like you have a more pro attitude and you won't develop as much if you play with people who aren't inspiring you to push yourself further. 

 

Personally, I find it extremely rude if people don't practice. If I have spent my evenings going through something only to find someone else hasn't bothered, it bugs me. Not a problem, I just surround myself with players who put the work in and inspire me. 

[Boodang]

Not unrealistic in the least. My daytime job pays the bills and music is my hobby but music is my passion and I take very seriously... more so than my job!! You need to find like minded musicians otherwise you won't get the enjoyment out of it you deserve. I've just moved and have been lucky in that the first band I joined is made up of likeminded musicians with professional attitudes towards playing which makes it very enjoyable and means gigs are super fun and stress free as everyone knows what they're doing and good at it.

Look for another band while playing with the current lot and then bail.

[dmccombe7]

Both bands i'm in take the music seriously but it still needs to have a fun element and be enjoyable.

People will be paying good money to see the Glam band so that's probably a bit more serious.

I learn songs as close to originals as i can, i write out the bass part for every song from the outset and that's used as the reminder to everyone how its played.

I've been in bands where people (usually guitarists) turn up for rehearsals and think they can just wing it. That's my sign to get out and find like minded musicians. 

The Glam band started from scratch (4 of us), we agreed a set list to work on and picked the first 4-5 songs to learn for the first rehearsal to see how we got on. It worked and from there it was 3-4 songs every week. Everyone put the same effort in and we made great progress very quickly getting tighter as we worked together. I regard rehearsals as work, i put the effort in beforehand and its about tighting things up and sorting out the finer points like endings etc.

The punk band was already gigging and i was given the set and 3 weeks later we were gigging. 

Both bands put the effort and i enjoy working with like minded people.

Dave

[Woodinblack]

28 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I've been in bands where people (usually guitarists) turn up for rehearsals and think they can just wing it.

 

I have too, I have known guitarists who thought they could just wing it. A few notable ones have been correct, most of them have been very wrong!

[PaulThePlug]

1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

''hope to cya in the audience''...

🤣

[dmccombe7]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I have too, I have known guitarists who thought they could just wing it. A few notable ones have been correct, most of them have been very wrong!

I find the winging it attitude works in Blues type bands ok but not in any other type of music............well maybe some sort of free jazz kinda music but not your typical pub band.

Dave

[Woodinblack]

24 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I find the winging it attitude works in Blues type bands ok but not in any other type of music............well maybe some sort of free jazz kinda music but not your typical pub band.

 

Well, yes, blues is winging it at the best of times. I guess it depends on your definition. If have known very good guitarists who know the song to get it right the first time, so truly, wing it. But the thing is, it takes a lot of practice to be able to do something without practice!

[Downunderwonder]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

it takes a lot of practice to be able to do something without practice!

So true.

 

My best achieving band however was founded on winging it. I was the least equipped to deal with the requirements but frequently was the rock that founded the floundering hot mess back to hotness so it balanced out very well.

[gjones]

The way it works is......

 

Start a new band with the members of the band you think are good and you are able to work with.

 

You can keep the old one 'on the go' until the new one is up an running.

 

.Then leave the old band (or just ignore the lazy guitarist's calls).

 

 

[Nicko]

24 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Well, yes, blues is winging it at the best of times. I guess it depends on your definition. If have known very good guitarists who know the song to get it right the first time, so truly, wing it. But the thing is, it takes a lot of practice to be able to do something without practice!

Hmm.  My first gig was two weeks after first picking up a bass* in a band playing popular covers.  At the time I was working 60 hour weeks and the band practiced once a week. I put in some time learning the 2 hour set but was along way from knowing any, let alone most, of the material properly.   I had chord charts and winged most of it.  I can assure you that talent did not play any part in my ability to get through the set, but the alcohol content of the punters might have.

 

* I'd played 6 string guitar for years in my bedroom but had never in a band.

[Woodinblack]

10 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Hmm.  My first gig was two weeks after first picking up a bass* in a band playing popular covers.  At the time I was working 60 hour weeks and the band practiced once a week. I put in some time learning the 2 hour set but was along way from knowing any, let alone most, of the material properly.   I had chord charts and winged most of it.  I can assure you that talent did not play any part in my ability to get through the set, but the alcohol content of the punters might have

 

Yep, which is nothing like what I was describing above. I am talking about someone (specifically a guitarist) coming in and doing a near perfect cover of a song they knew without prior practicing of that piece to the point that a paying non drunk crowd would be happy with the performance.

 

My first gig with my current band was 28 songs that I hadn't played with them before with a 3 hour practice, and two evenings working the songs our and writing them down but I did know a lot of the songs that had tricky bits and I would say my performance on the gig was acceptable, not faultless.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

Yep, which is nothing like what I was describing above. I am talking about someone (specifically a guitarist) coming in and doing a near perfect cover of a song they knew without prior practicing of that piece to the point that a paying non drunk crowd would be happy with the performance.

My first gig with my current band was 28 songs that I hadn't played with them before with a 3 hour practice, and two evenings working the songs our and writing them down but I did know a lot of the songs that had tricky bits and I would say my performance on the gig was acceptable, not faultless.

As you mentioned before, it's rare, but it can happen.

 

I depped for a popular rock covers band around these parts just last month. There were two gigs back to back and a dep guitarist had been drafted in for both. We get to gig #1 and the alarm bells went off as soon as words started coming out of his mouth. I was hearing all the wrong signals about parts in various songs he hadn't played before. The gig wasn't a disaster, but we had to drop a few tunes and he blagged a couple of the others. A post gig conversation ensued regarding gig #2.

 

Early afternoon on the Saturday I get a call saying a different guitarist has been roped in for gig #2. He doesn't know half the set, but he's supposed to quite good.

 

I get to gig #2 and this guy turns up. About half my age (git) and is the polar opposite of the guy from the night before. It's clear he is not familiar with a lot of the set, but he says he'll be right next to me and will be watching for keys/cues etc. He played an absolute blinder and I very much doubt anyone sober or otherwise would have known he hadn't been in the band for years.

 

His name is Robbie Blake from The Karma Effect. Their album is jolly good too.

 

[Nail Soup]

Are you being unrealistic? Short answer is Yes. You cannot expect people to change to how you want them to be, even if what you want is perfectly reasonable to you.

Their attitude is perfectly acceptable. So is yours. They just may not mix well in the same band.

If you are in the majority, then maybe the other person should leave. If you are in the minority, then maybe look for a different band..... and be sure to look for like-minded people.