Am I being unrealistic?

[dmccombe7]

The hard part is finding like minded people. A lot of bands start of with the best of intentions, a lot of excitement and everyone being enthusiastic but as time progresses towards gigs you start to realise some people aren't so keen now and you get a drop in commitment. Sometimes its because they enjoy rehearsing and the thought of being in a band but dont like gigging.

Usually by the time you find out you've already invested a lot of time and money. Oh well that's bands for you.

Dave

[Nail Soup]

2 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

Are you being unrealistic? Short answer is Yes. You cannot expect people to change to how you want them to be, even if what you want is perfectly reasonable to you.

Their attitude is perfectly acceptable. So is yours. They just may not mix well in the same band.

If you are in the majority, then maybe the other person should leave. If you are in the minority, then maybe look for a different band..... and be sure to look for like-minded people.

 

 

Sorry forgot to say: Good luck whatever way you go!

[Jonesy]

It sounds like you're doing the right thing and already have another band on the go that will potentially be more driven towards gigging. If that all works out then I'd end up knocking the problematic band on the head, or at least having an open chat with them first saying you want to gig regularly and finding out what page they're on.

 

If you have the chat and they're all up for gigging then I'd also suggest booking a gig for as soon as is realistic. Just book one, even if the set isn't finished yet. Having a date to aim for is pretty motivating and could make him practice more.

 

Have you thought about putting an ad out for another guitarist to play lead? It sounds like your current guy is happy playing rhythm so another guitarist could be needed anyway? It could also help him become a better player.

 

From what it sounds like though, your guitarist would annoy me loads. Rehearsal rooms cost money and it's a waste of time and money if a member of the band constantly has no idea what they're doing. I don't really enjoy sitting down while another member of the band spends 30mins figuring out what they should have learnt at home and I reckon it's disrespectful to act like that. It doesn't have to be spot on, but they should turn up ready to play something.

[uk_lefty]

The best thing I've ever done is join established bands. That way to know where they are in terms of whether they gig, how often, what type of gigs etc, and these days you can see videos etc of them. That makes it so much easier than trying to form something. It's particularly good if you're only just starting out in the world of gigging bands because you can see how it's done from getting gigs to managing rehearsals and changing set lists.

 

I wish it was as black and white as "do you want to be in a band that does pub gigs once a month, aiming to gig from November?" Vs "do you want to meet up talk sh!t and maybe play some tunes?" Because the problem is the number of dreamers, weirdos and time wasters who will tell you they're the next Steve Luthaker ready to play any gig any time anywhere, they're so sh!t hot on guitar you might not be good enough to play with them, they've got four fender custom shop Strats... And they only know one song. And they never rehearse. And they want to be the lead singer too but can't sing. And they tell you how to dress for the gigs that are never going to happen and how low to strap your bass. And they get on everyone else's back about not being gig ready quickly enough. I'll stop now.

[mcnach]

On 26/07/2022 at 10:52, BillyBass said:

I've been a bassist for 4 years.  For the last two years I've been rehearsing regularly with a drummer and for most of that time we've been in a 4 piece with a guitarist and a few different singers.  The drummer and I were on the same page, both started playing at about the same time and our goal was to play live.  The guitarist doesn't practise much at home and often wings rehearsals, getting his phone out before songs to remind him how the song goes.  I regularly nag the guitarist to practise at home but it falls on deaf ears.  Our drummer just bailed.  I found a new drummer very quickly and we will audition him on Friday.  

 

I met the singer yesterday and she asked me to stop nagging the guitarist as this is a just bit of fun and I'm not making it pleasant for her.  She is used to flaky musicians and doesn't find the guitarist's behaviour to be out of order.

 

For me this isn't just fun though.  I take it very seriously, I practise at home constantly and in some ways, treat the band like I treat my business: if it is to be done it has to be done properly.

 

Am I being unrealistic?  Should I just be grateful I am in a band and not take it so seriously?

 

I've invested a lot of time in this band and walking away would be a big step but I don't seem to be on the same page as the guitarist and singer.

 

Any advice from you seasoned band members would be welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're all agreeing to prepare something and someone (guitarist now) doesn't prepare, I find that disrespectful at least: that person is essentially saying "yeah, my time is worth more than yours".

 

Not sure you'll be able to change somebody's attitude. It sounds like you've tried and it is not working. Continuing to press the matter will only annoy you and them. I'd move on.

If there's one thing I'd like to tell my younger self when I started out playing in bands, it would be "don't waste your time with people who aren't on the same page". I know it seems hard, you've invested time and quitting to start again seems like such a drag... but if you don't you won't be in a better band. Once I lost my 'fear' to quit, it was amazing. Audition all you can, talk to others... even if you don't join a band after an audition it'll expose you to other people, and networking is really important. I found my main band (12 years with them) like that. I was already in a covers band, and we had a guitarist audition. After a couple of practices he quit, but we stayed in touch and I knew about his other band. Then a while later they needed a bass player and the rest is history. You never know. The one thing you know, for sure, is that if you stay with a band that doesn't really do it for you and you don't do anything to get out of there, you won't be happy.

 

Having said this... it's not always necessary to quit quit.

If you have the time and the inclination, nothing is stopping you from finding another band and keep both going. If one day it becomes too much, you may need to make a decision, but until then...

 

You could keep this band as it is, and see it as a way to play with a different set of people and learn different things. If you then take it as a low commitment band, perhaps it becomes more fun too. Meanwhile, keep looking for something better. Playing with a range of different people with different idiosyncrasies, tastes, skill level, is a very good way to grow as a bass player. 

 

[Grahambythesea]

It sounds like the guitarist has a lack of confidence, can I suggest you record a rehearsal and give that to practice to, he may not feel able to play the songs on his own at home.

[adamg67]

It's interesting when people say they have "invested" time in a band. It's like the sunk cost fallacy, it can make you keep doing something you don't want to do. I've thought about this recently with joining a new band, since you never know how it's going to go. I'm looking at it as something that will last as long as it lasts, and I need to be happy spending the time doing it and also not bothered if it suddenly stops. I'm getting a lot out of learning new songs, my playing is already noticeably better than a couple of months ago when I didn't have the push to do more, and so far so good as far as enjoying it. I'll commit to doing stuff and that's part of being in a band for me but it doesn't owe me anything and neither do the band members individually.

[BillyBass]

I had a chat with the singer about where I stood and I think she is worried I'll walk out and so she has promised to back me up with pushing the guitarist on certain things, like being willing to travel more than a short distance to a venue to be filmed or gig, as long as I stop nagging him at the rehearsals.  She also suggested setting a date to film a rehearsal at a larger venue we sometimes use, which will push the guitarist to be ready.

 

I'll see how things go, we are auditioning a new drummer tomorrow; if he is a good fit I'll continue, for the time being.

 

I know the guitarist won't change though, so part of me realises this won't work in the long term.

 

 

 

[blisters on my fingers]

Be interested to know the guitarists history with any other bands he has been involved with, has he always had this lazy selfish attitude ?

What happened to those previous bands ?    How long has he been involved in your local gigging scene, for instance?

 

Is he really so good on guitar that he thinks he just doesn't need to learn songs prior to a rehearsal?

It sounds like the behaviour of a flaky narcissist.

ME ME ME ME.

Feck everybody else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[blisters on my fingers]

.

Edited July 28, 2022 by blisters on my fingers
double post

[Bluewine]

Depends on what you are looking for. Is you're goal to be in a gigging band?

 

Blue

[uk_lefty]

12 hours ago, BillyBass said:

 

I know the guitarist won't change though, so part of me realises this won't work in the long term.

 

Maybe have a heart to heart. Try and understand why the reluctance to travel? Why can't he learn the songs beforehand. If it's truly laziness/ arrogance then there's your answer but if it's lack of confidence, issues at home, there may be other ways to resolve it. 

[Lozz196]

Said guitarist learns a new song at this week’s rehearsal, next week he’ll be able to play it spot on. Work the schedule that way and he has no excuses. All it does is mean that he’s essentially always one rehearsal behind the rest of the band. 

[White Cloud]

Yup, find other like-minded people to play with is my estimation!

[shoulderpet]

Honestly, give them a few weeks to get their s!!t together and then leave of it doesn't improve.

 

I have been in a similar situation with a guitarist who doesn't practice and my experience has been that no amount of nagging will make a difference because the problem is the musicians whole attitude towards making music.

 

Sadly some musicians are happy to show up to a gig and wing there way thorough it and see nothing wrong with that.

[Quilly]

Learn the song at home, Rehearse the song to iron out bugs with fellow musicians. When you get to a certain age with other commitments and rehearsal time is precious you'll just realize "I don't have time for this BS" . The advent of smart phones has a detrimental effect on rehearsal, people on their phones all the time and reading lyrics / chords mid practice. It actually discourteous not to have your act together with no homework done. One solution is to list the songs for next weeks rehearsal so everyone knows what to do. It sound like that guitarist likes the idea of being in a band but not willing to put in the work.   

[3below]

4 minutes ago, Quilly said:

Learn the song at home, Rehearse the song to iron out bugs with fellow musicians. When you get to a certain age with other commitments and rehearsal time is precious you'll just realize "I don't have time for this BS" . The advent of smart phones has a detrimental effect on rehearsal, people on their phones all the time and reading lyrics / chords mid practice. It actually discourteous not to have your act together with no homework done. One solution is to list the songs for next weeks rehearsal so everyone knows what to do. It sound like that guitarist likes the idea of being in a band but not willing to put in the work.   

All the above points are totally sensible and a means to using time effectively.  I personally don't see the problem with reading music as you play - being at a certain age I can sometimes forget basic chord sequences of things I have played many times but have not played recently.   Remembering the fills, passing notes, tricky bits does not seem affected.   I do have a problem with people not putting the time in beforehand.

[BillyBass]

Update:

Since I last posted on this thread, the drummer fell in love with the lead singer, was rejected and left the band.  We got a new drummer quickly but it wasn't the same without my mate the drummer.  The second band I joined has progressed well, we are nearly ready to gig and all 4 of us are on the same page.  It just helped me put my first band into perspective.

 

Yesterday, I spoke to the guitarist and singer about knocking it on the head and no one complained, though the guitarist did suggest he leave and we carry on with a new guitarist!  I feel quite sad as I have put a lot of effort into this over the last couple of years but, on a positive note, I have learnt how to play with others, have gained skill, confidence and have learnt about 60 songs in the process.  

 

Time to move on.

 

Thanks for all the advice!

Edited September 29, 2022 by BillyBass