PA Recommendations

[alexa3020]

My band are looking to gig soon and we need a PA.

The band is drums, bass, 1 guitar (and on the odd occasion 2) 1 Main Vocal, &  1 backing vocal. Playing rock covers (Stones, who, Jam, etc).

The gigs will usually be in pubs an the most likely setup for the PA is  going to be Main Vocal, backing vocal and a kick drum going through it. There is also potential for guitar to go through it as the guitarist has just moved to a kemper but the intention is he will use his own cab.

Do you think one of the tower PA systems will be man enough for the job - I'm thinking something like the Yamaha stagepas 1k or similar.

I like the idea of something portable, because, as bass players we have enough to carry already and we get annoyed carrying stuff we do not directly benefit from!

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

Thanks 

Edited July 27, 2022 by alexa3020

[Jakester]

Stagepas etc with kick drum probably won't be powerful enough. It would probably be fine just with vocals though. 

 

I use the Yamaha DXR12s as tops in our rock band and at a push they could probably cope with a kick - the 15's definitely could though. Ideally use a separate sub if you're putting drums through. 

[itu]

Our set consists of a small wireless mixer U24i and big PRX735 speakers. There are mixers that have less and lower quality channels in the product family but you can never have too many channels. Wireless is the thing: anyone with the password and a phone or a tablet can mix.

 

Choose your cabs according to the noise needed. Do not forget to buy decent cables and cases/covers.

[WinterMute]

QSC K12.2 and subs make a fine noise, if you want something a bit more exotic the FBT small systems are excellent.

 

https://www.fbtaudio.co.uk/fbt-audio/portable-sound/full-systems/

Edited July 27, 2022 by WinterMute
added URL

[mep]

Our band setup is similar to yours. Only guitar and he goes through the PA. Initially we bought 15" active EV tops as the drums were going through and this worked OK as we only play pubs. Our new drummer has a sub so the kick drum has more oomph now. These can cost so of you find a good second hand one then great. For monitors look for some cheap active ones that can link together. You won't need to get too carried away with size or power for your set up if they are good quality and only used for vocals and maybe a bit of guitar. ×1 For good quality cables etc.

Edited July 27, 2022 by mep

[Nicko]

The best advice I can give is to give up on the idea of putting the bass pedal through the PA.  It's almost never needed in a pub setting.

 

I think you'd find the Stagepass limited in the long term.

 

 

[acidbass]

If you can transport subs, then I would always have them for a full band setup. My current PA is a pair of RCF 745s - active 2 way 15" full range - fed by an Allen and Heath QU SB. We put kick and bass through it but only very mild amounts and it works great, but can foresee limitations in larger venues.

[Roger2611]

We have a similar line up, we use Mackie Thump 15a speakers and a Studiomaster Club 16 XS mixer, all in under £1000.00 and a huge improvement over the old Peavey XR desk and Martin CX2 ultra heavy speakers plus even heavier sub bass we used to use!

[Al Krow]

We've successfully used a pair of RCF 310As for a 5 piece rock band, mostly with separate backline for bass. Very portable and excellent articulation. 

[alexa3020]

Cheers for the advice guys.

looks like a pair of active speakers and mixer is probably a good way to go. What’s everyone using for monitors?

[itu]

5 minutes ago, alexa3020 said:

What’s everyone using for monitors?

Consider active wedges or IEMs.

[Happy Jack]

This is a big, BIG topic and I would move forward slowly and carefully, if I was you.

 

If you're not putting the whole band through the PA, then forget about putting the kick through it and buy something lightweight that will be good for the vocals.

 

If you're starting to play pubs, why do you need monitors? What do the band members need to hear that they won't be able to hear in a pub?

 

If you're not weight-lifters, consider buying a power amp and a pair of lightweight passive speakers ... why would you want to lift a pair of power amps above shoulder height at every gig?

 

Above all, go and see some Basschatters local to you play some gigs, check out what they're doing, ask what works for them and what doesn't.

 

My signature contains links to both my bands and all their gigs; if you're anywhere near one of those, come along and talk to me or @Silvia Bluejay and we'll tell you what we can.

 

 

[alexa3020]

I may be wrong here, but Pa speakers usually sit in front and pointing away from the band. Is it not hard to hear the singer if you don’t have a monitor.

I honestly can’t remember playing a gig without a monitor so I just assumed you needed one

[Lozz196]

I’m sure that good singers can get away without monitors, but for me I need to hear both the lead vocals and my own in order to pitch correctly so monitors are an essential part of a PA for me. 

[MacDaddy]

43 minutes ago, alexa3020 said:

I may be wrong here, but Pa speakers usually sit in front and pointing away from the band. Is it not hard to hear the singer if you don’t have a monitor.

I honestly can’t remember playing a gig without a monitor so I just assumed you needed one

 

I have seen bands with the PA speakers behind them, and without any feedback being produced.

Not sure how they managed it.

[Woodinblack]

There are loads of threads on this here.

Currnetly just use a pair of alto TS212s, a behringer 12" sub (don't bring that everywhere) and we put the 3 vocals, bass drum (although not much if not with the sub), sax and guitar through it, although the guitar is only to spread it around a bit more. Flat out it works fine but there isn't much spare. Just picked up a RCF Evox 8 to see what that is like. 

Don't have any monitors, me and the drummer are in-ears., the singer is always out the front in front of the PA and the guitarist seems to cope ok.

[Buddster]

As Happy Jack has said, its a big subject. 

My dummer bought an HK line arrary system and we go out as a PA hire (as well as using it for the band). And I have to say its the clearest, fullest sound I've mixed live on. I can't recommend them enough. 

Plus there are no huge mid/top boxes blocking the view of the band. All very discrete and very portable. 

Something similar to this, but we have 4 actives and 4 passive subs with 8 top end unit (he went a bit mad, we never need that many! ) 

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/hk_audio_elements_smart_base.htm

[Happy Jack]

2 hours ago, alexa3020 said:

I may be wrong here, but Pa speakers usually sit in front and pointing away from the band. Is it not hard to hear the singer if you don’t have a monitor.

I honestly can’t remember playing a gig without a monitor so I just assumed you needed one

 

The only person who can't hear the vocals (usually) is the drummer. Guitar(s) and Bass stand up front, with their heads close enough to the PA tops that hearing the vocals is no problem at all.

 

The answers are totally different if you're playing Glastonbury or the Albert Hall.  If you're playing the Dog & Duck to 40 people, then arriving in an Edwin Shirley pantechnicon and loading-in a ton (literally a ton) of PA kit is going to win you no friends and no re-bookings.

 

The main reason (IME) that someone needs a monitor is that everyone else has a monitor and the noise levels on stage make it impossible to hear anything unless you have one too. Take away everybody's monitors and you reduce by half the gear you need, reduce by at least half the volume levels on stage, provide everyone with lots of extra room, and save a fortune.

 

I repeat ... you're playing a PUB!!!

 

[alexa3020]

7 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

The only person who can't hear the vocals (usually) is the drummer. Guitar(s) and Bass stand up front, with their heads close enough to the PA tops that hearing the vocals is no problem at all.

 

The answers are totally different if you're playing Glastonbury or the Albert Hall.  If you're playing the Dog & Duck to 40 people, then arriving in an Edwin Shirley pantechnicon and loading-in a ton (literally a ton) of PA kit is going to win you no friends and no re-bookings.

 

The main reason (IME) that someone needs a monitor is that everyone else has a monitor and the noise levels on stage make it impossible to hear anything unless you have one too. Take away everybody's monitors and you reduce by half the gear you need, reduce by at least half the volume levels on stage, provide everyone with lots of extra room, and save a fortune.

 

I repeat ... you're playing a PUB!!!

 

I’m completely open to not having a monitor, in fact it’d be my preference - the less I have to spend the better right?

It’s interesting because in my years of gigging pubs to concert halls I honestly can’t remember not having a monitor firing at least the vocal back toward the band.

The setup I was thinking of would have been 2 speakers and a monitor - hardly a tonne of gear. But if we can do it with just 2 speakers then even better.

[Jakester]

7 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

The only person who can't hear the vocals (usually) is the drummer. Guitar(s) and Bass stand up front, with their heads close enough to the PA tops that hearing the vocals is no problem at all.

 

I would respectfully disagree with this. The PA cabs I/we have used over the years have meant we can’t hear the vocals; perhaps we set up differently to everyone else but with guitars and bass amps used as backline, even if everyone is circumspect about stage volume, it drowns out the vocal bleed from the PA.

 

IME at least one stage monitor is essential if you’re not using IEMs. Doesn’t have to be a massive wedge; I successfully used one of those ‘monitor on a pole’ jobbies by Mackie and Behringer for years. We currently use smaller versions of our tops (DXR10s) as monitors - also good for redundancy if one of the tops goes pop. 
 

 

[Nicko]

9 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

The only person who can't hear the vocals (usually) is the drummer. Guitar(s) and Bass stand up front, with their heads close enough to the PA tops that hearing the vocals is no problem at all.

 

The answers are totally different if you're playing Glastonbury or the Albert Hall.  If you're playing the Dog & Duck to 40 people, then arriving in an Edwin Shirley pantechnicon and loading-in a ton (literally a ton) of PA kit is going to win you no friends and no re-bookings.

 

The main reason (IME) that someone needs a monitor is that everyone else has a monitor and the noise levels on stage make it impossible to hear anything unless you have one too. Take away everybody's monitors and you reduce by half the gear you need, reduce by at least half the volume levels on stage, provide everyone with lots of extra room, and save a fortune.

 

I repeat ... you're playing a PUB!!!

 

I have never needed a monitor when playing pubs, but typically the singer has had one.  

[Buddster]

I once saw an advert for a band 

 

"singer wanted, must have own PA" 

[Happy Jack]

That's right up there with "Queen Tribute seeks Freddie Mercury".

 

[Woodinblack]

I saw a "Bowie tribute seeks a new Bowie", which I thought was amusing.

But the singer having their own PA, not so unusual. Dave Lee Roth got into Van Halen as he had a PA, and I believe Ozzie did too.

Frankly, without a singer, who needs a PA?

[vsmith1]

11 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

The only person who can't hear the vocals (usually) is the drummer. Guitar(s) and Bass stand up front, with their heads close enough to the PA tops that hearing the vocals is no problem at all.

 

The answers are totally different if you're playing Glastonbury or the Albert Hall.  If you're playing the Dog & Duck to 40 people, then arriving in an Edwin Shirley pantechnicon and loading-in a ton (literally a ton) of PA kit is going to win you no friends and no re-bookings.

 

The main reason (IME) that someone needs a monitor is that everyone else has a monitor and the noise levels on stage make it impossible to hear anything unless you have one too. Take away everybody's monitors and you reduce by half the gear you need, reduce by at least half the volume levels on stage, provide everyone with lots of extra room, and save a fortune.

 

I repeat ... you're playing a PUB!!!

 

Though I mostly agree. The main volume on the stage  is from the acoustic drum kit. Oftentimes it effectively drowns out all other sounds on the (usually tiny) stage space. That is then overcome by having monitors or IEMs or the guitarists, bassist etc. turning up their backline, which exacerbates the problem.
We (in a 5-piece band) have used more IEMs (lead vox, drummer, bassist), but the guitarists (x2) share a floor wedge. This does not resolve all the loud stage issues, but helps. In very small areas, we use a small electronic Drum kit and as the bassist I do not use a backline just a DI, but we have two tops and a sub.