covers vs originals and the value of what you do

[john_the_bass]

I'm sure we've probably gone into the how many/what sort of bands you play in discussion before, but an interesting topic of discussion has cropped up in our local music scene.

There is a camp who are firmly in the "people who play in covers bands aren't musicians and have just sold their souls, not like us who play in originals bands whose integrity is maintained to the highest level as we carry on producing our high art and not this pony that's just churning out other people's songs" and I wondered what the opinions of more moderate people might be.

Personally, I play bass in an originals band and guitar in a covers band, I also dep occassionally on bass in a trad irish band (not irish C&W). I enjoy what i do in both of them and feel that I have creative freedom in both bands and that neither band is an easier job than the other. The covers are easier to learn as a band as we can all work out our parts individually and then bring them together, so learning new stuff is a breeze and so much quicker than when we take a new idea and develop into a song, but that takes hours and weeks. I also think that, whilst the originals band lets me be creative, it's also to a degree quite restrictive and I can dick about more in the covers band, whilst still having to stick quite rigidly to a pre written part.

What are your thoughts on this?

[obbm]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='48843' date='Aug 22 2007, 12:08 PM']There is a camp who are firmly in the "people who play in covers bands aren't musicians and have just sold their souls .....[/quote]

Applying that across the board would mean that anyone who plays for a symphony orchestra, theatre pit orchestra or backs an established solo artist is not a musician. A musician is someone who plays an instrument. Period.

Edited August 22, 2007 by obbm

[beerdragon]

I'm in a covers band and the latest song i v'e been told to learn is Elvis Costellos Olivers army. it sounds quite busy and when i have it down i'll be quite pleased with myself, much respect to the original player, but i don't have a complex or anything about covering other peoples work.

[Guest subaudio]

Good post

I think both have their merits in their own right, of course playing covers has the added atraction of being payed, which I must say is becoming more and more attractive to me, I started out playing covers and ended up doing it as a pro, then left to try and "make it" in originals bands, I wouldnt haved missed doing the originals for anything as it gives me the freedom to fully express myself, but there were more and better gigs doing covers generally and putting your mark on an existing and recognised song is an art in itself, why not do both, best of both worlds then.

[Aussiephoenix]

I dont know what your reality is like over there, but in Portugal its a bit restricted... there are hardly any places for a starting out Originals band to play live, and there is no interest whatsoever from our discographic companies for rock/funk/metal bands. only poppy stuff and classical portuguese music, you know, all that SUX.

So, if you're a musician, you have 2 choices... either stay in an originals band, and play in the garage until the band breaks up, then do it all over again with another band,

OR,

If you want to play live, you surrender to covers, as thats the only thing that attracts public to bars, and since thats what the bar owners want, thats the only type of bands they'll have.

with 1 or 2 exceptions of course.

[Tinman]

This is an argument that has been raging for a couple of years on the RAF live music forum. It was started by a couple of pretentious dicks who basically said that because they were in originals bands, they were better than those doing covers.
The whole subject really p****s me off! What does in matter what you do? As long as you're out there doing it.

To me, the integrity lies in using whatever talent you have to produce the best results that you can and in doing that, giving your audience a good time.

Originals vs covers? To me there's no need for an argument. I tend to ignore anyone who is that pretentious that they're going to criticise you for what you're playing.

OBBM - Cracking point on the subject of classical music.

Rant over

Pete

Edited August 22, 2007 by Tinman

[wateroftyne]

I don't mind either. Most of the music I've played in the past is original stuff, but my current main gig is kind-of covers, albeit fairly drastically different to the originals.

As long as I never find myself playing Steamy Windows, I'll be happy.

[Johngh]

Nowdays I tend to stick with Cover / Tribute stuff. No matter if its original or covers, getting a group of "musicians" together and actually getting them to agree on what should be played is an accomplishment in itself.
I played in a NWOBHM band that was signed to an indie label about 20 years ago with some success, but with all the label and management hassles it was a nightmare.
Bottom line is I'm easy about it, if the original music is good, I don't mind doing it. All this intelectual tosh about not being a proper muso if you play covers is Bo**ocks, just ask Girls Aloud !

[ZPQ]

Both are valid - but there's a lot to be said for doing some time in a covers band and learning the craft of gigging. As there tend to be more gigs doing covers you can get your act together and develop the skills necessary a lot quicker, so I think most players would benefit from spending a year or 2 playing covers at some point in their career.
The grey area for me is cover bands that try to slip a few originals into the set - I struggle to see how that work at the typical pub/club.

[The Funk]

I do originals but I'm definitely not of the opinion that people who play in covers bands / back other artists are not proper musicians. Most of the time, I've found it's the other way around!

In an originals band you can play whatever you like - and you can write the songs around your limitations as a musician. In a covers band you just won't have that luxury.

The other trouble with many originals bands is that their sound is just a carbon copy of whoever the current big act is. So I don't see how that's got anything to do with expressing your artistic vision - surely, that's expressing someone else's!

Edited August 22, 2007 by The Funk

[PaulyB]

Used to play in an originals but got sick and tired of practicing all hours to end up playing to ten people on a damp Tuesday evening. So now play in a covers, so what if it's other peoples stuff, we do the songs we like to listen to anyway, get paid for it and practice and gig when we feel like it. Though where we play theres band on four nights of the week and there is a marked diference between 'covers bands', I think some like the idea of playing but need to go back to the bedroom for a few more years.

[The Funk]

[quote name='Johngh' post='48889' date='Aug 22 2007, 12:46 PM']I played in a NWOBHM band[/quote]

A what now?

[Rich]

The "people who play in covers bands aren't musicians and have just sold their souls etc" thing is pure snobbery, and the sort of attitude that pisses me off quicker than almost anything else (with the possible exception of the Daily Mail, wasps and Simon Cowell). Anyone who trots out that line is basically a twunt of the highest order.
Pete summed it up for me when he said[quote]the integrity lies in using whatever talent you have to produce the best results that you can and in doing that, giving your audience a good time[/quote]


EDIT: NWOBHM = New Wave Of British Heavy Metal. In the main, it was pretty much as dreadful as it sounds.
With the obvious exceptions, e.g. Johngh's band, whoever they were.

[The Funk]

[quote name='Rich' post='48909' date='Aug 22 2007, 01:01 PM']twunt[/quote]

Good word!

[Lulu]

[quote name='ZPQ' post='48891' date='Aug 22 2007, 01:49 PM']The grey area for me is cover bands that try to slip a few originals into the set - I struggle to see how that work at the typical pub/club.[/quote] That's what we do and it works pretty well but it also depends on the audience. We would not not play original songs if we knew people came to listen to ''shake your body" pop/rock songs or a Pink Floyd tribute.

[Pikefloyd]

Long before I was in a band, I'd much rather go to a pub and see a decent covers band. The only originals I see are bands with my mates in, or friends of friends etc.

I'm in a covers band for that reason, it seems like much harder work sorting gigs and getting a following, and if you get enjoyment from that, that's great too, but I'm sure things would become a bit of a chore for me. We've had comments from other original bands asking why we don't do our own stuff, (they thought we were good enough to do so!!!), but just explain the reasons I've just mentioned.

I'm playing in a band for the enjoyment of playing in a band, I don't want to get bogged down in all the other hassles, but that's just me!

The other thing is a decent covers band will probably play about 2 hours of music, originals tend to just have a 45 minute set? If I'm setting up all the gear, PA etc, I'd much rather be playing for a long while rather than do all that faffing for only 45 minutes of play time!

Saying that, I'll often pick up a six string at home and have a noodle away on that, but wouldn't want to introduce any of my noodlings to the band!

No problem with originals bands, great stuff, just not really for me.

[TheRev]

[quote name='ZPQ' post='48891' date='Aug 22 2007, 12:49 PM']The grey area for me is cover bands that try to slip a few originals into the set - I struggle to see how that work at the typical pub/club.[/quote]


This is about the only way an originals band can get any gigs - you try a few of your own songs in a set of covers and see how they go down. If people like 'em you chuck in a few more and then a few more til your whole set is original material and you bestride the planet like a rock Colossus.

It worked for the Beatles, The Stones and Muse....

Anyway, Even if you're in an originals band, there's usually a primary songwriter (comes up with the chord progression and lyrics) and we, as bass players, add a bass line to that song, usually improving the song dramatically
In this case, as it isn't YOUR song - and you're essentially playing along to someone elses' song (albeit with YOUR bass part) - are you 'playing a cover'?
Suppose it depends on where you draw the line on songwriting credits.

[Lulu]

[quote name='TheRev' post='48931' date='Aug 22 2007, 02:21 PM']It worked for the Beatles, The Stones and Muse....[/quote]
and Van Halen too !

[Sugden]

I've never acctualy played in a full covers band. Done quite afew covers in mess around sets and inbetween origonals. But I think tbh doing the covers was harder than the origonals as it all needs to pull together and because I've never really done covers live.

People who are as snobby as that should really not be listened to at any time. Im sure they aren't good enough muscians to be able to do every song written by others. Theres alot to be learned from others music they may write in a completely different way to your self which takes your own playing in different directions.

I should really learn more covers...

[cetera]

[quote name='The Funk' post='48900' date='Aug 22 2007, 12:57 PM']I do originals but I'm definitely not of the opinion that people who play in covers bands / back other artists are not proper musicians. Most of the time, I've found it's the other way around!

In an originals band you can play whatever you like - and you can write the songs around your limitations as a musician. In a covers band you just won't have that luxury.

The other trouble with many originals bands is that their sound is just a carbon copy of whoever the current big act is. So I don't see how that's got anything to do with expressing your artistic vision - surely, that's expressing someone else's![/quote]


Excellent point!

I'm currently in two tribute bands and a function band.... and I dep for other function bands. Over the years I have done the 'originals' route to death including a moderately successful CD release in the GAS territories and Japan. (Btw, the GAS territories are Germany/Austria/Switzerland NOT Gear Acquisition Syndrome)

Being in an originals band normally means writing your own bass part which, while artistically satisfying, does not make you any more of a 'musician'.....

Being in a GOOD covers band/function band/Tribute band actually requires you to reproduce the basslines/style of the original players as authentically as possible. This is particularly true of a good 'Tribute' band....
For me, there's nothing worse than going to see a covers band who play poor, stripped down versions of classic songs where they just simplify the bassline to a 'plod' rather than playing the correct lines....

IMO, there is a 'discipline' to reproducing songs accurately.....

[cetera]

As an aside..... the 'KISS' tribute band I'm in auditioned for a new 'Ace Frehley' (lead guitarist) a while ago...

We had many applicants but the most interesting one was a 'technically amazing' guy who could play all the right notes, but had NO feel. It turned out he'd never done the 'covers' thing before.... and therefore hadn't learnt to study the cover songs in the correct way.

He thought he was great. We thought he was a robot.....

[stingrayfan]

Each to their own. Personally, I'd rather be paid to play songs that people like rather than have to flyer 50 of my mates in order to break even. Unless you're still dreaming of making it, life's too short!

[Cantdosleepy]

Lots of good stuff in this thread!


Personally, I'm a weekend warrior and I only want to play originals for the time being. I'm very happy to play garages and basements for the next ten years.



I am looking forward to a solid middle age in some kind of blues soul function band - hopefully by then I'll have the skills to play some of those awesome, awesome blues songs.



For now I'm happy pootling around with three chord rock songs and bleepy synthy fun.

[Phaedrus]

IMO, there are so many originals bands out at this time who have made it to the "big time", but their songs are [i]pure and utter tripe[/i].

Mentioning the names of these bands would doubtless spark a big heated debate about opinions, subjectivity and the thoery of relativity, so I won't.

But I bet it's safe to say everyone on here (and beyond, of course) can think of songs that they've heard on the radio and have wondered how the f*!k the band ever got their songs out of their bedrooms.

But to contrast that, we'd never discover new stuff that we love if there were no originals bands, so I guess I'll just have to keep switching stations in the car every time another whiney-tripe-song comes on...

Decent covers bands let punters hear their favourite songs played live on a night out at the pub.

They usually provide great entertainment for weddings & functions.

They offer fans of Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Stone Roses, Jeff Buckley and so many others, the chance to see a full live show "by" their favourite bands, when the real bands are either never going to tour again or rarely ever if at all play in their home towns.

Mark

[obbm]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='49026' date='Aug 22 2007, 03:58 PM']They offer fans of Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Stone Roses, Jeff Buckley and so many others, the chance to see a full live show "by" their favourite bands, when the real bands are either never going to tour again or rarely ever if at all play in their home towns.[/quote]

Especially if half the members are dead from the neck up and the other half are dead from the neck down.