covers vs originals and the value of what you do

[G-bitch]

I'd agree with most folk on here - I used to say that i'd never be in a covers band but I've matured a good bit now!

I've no problem with cover bands; the thing that gets my goat and dominates (did I say dominates? I meant monopolises) the venues in the west midlands are tribute bands. Don't get tribute bands at all; have no interest in seeing them or playing in one (how limited do you want to bbe?!).

[Steve Rickwood]

I think some people miss the point. The point being why you took up your instrument - I think my reason was because I enjoy it. Whether I'm playing originals or covers I try to be creative, or try to learn a style I couldn't grasp. The bottom line is that it's fun, whether its a session situation, or just a pub.
I also think the 'holier than thou' approach of only playing originals isn't as sacred as advertised; are you telling me that people in originals bands AREN'T selling their souls? Of course there are some - not everyone does it for the 'love', some people want to be famous or make a living. Regardless of what you play, it doesn't matter, you do it for the reason you choose.

[alexclaber]

There are many covers bands that play better, have more vibe, more groove and even more originality than many originals bands. Mr Funk's comment about originals bands jumping on the bandwagon is so true. Conversely there are covers bands that just don't get it and should not be let out, let alone paid to play! I'm just glad to see there is still some demand for live music when a DJ is so much cheaper and easier.

If I could earn a good wage playing 9am to 5pm in a covers band then I'd love to do it as a day job. However as the rest of the world wants to go to gigs in the evening and pay as little as possible for the pleasure, I'll stick to writing and playing my own music (and sounding truely original - at least I think so! ) in my free time as that's what gets my rocks off, honey.

Alex

[lukeward2004]

I play for both an originals band and a covers band, and my experience with people who have a complex about covers bands is often that they are either:

1 - Young and inexperienced
2 - Naive (which sort of goes hand in hand with the 1st point)

I spent 5 years of my life grafting and gigging in an originals band to try and make it big, to try and be a rock star. We came close but ultimately the people in the band started to loose focus and commitment and it went down to swanny.

I got sick of playing for nothing, for putting in endless time at home and in the studio writing and recording songs, and then having to manage people to get them to learn the parts and often they could not get over their own ego's to see the bigger picture.

So I decided to take a back seat and play for other projects without directly getting involved in writing, unless it was absolutely required. I play for an original pop-rock artist named Natalie long and I have so much fun being told where the gig is, how much im getting paid, and of course, turning up and playing.

Equally, I play for a covers band, doing funky covers, and I havent enjoyed myself in a band as much as I am now. Its great as we all learn our parts at home, the musicians are top class, and when we hit to road, we will be earning some money for our efforts, unlike the originals scene.

It has made me a better player, and I think that every musician needs to be able to do both - write music and cover music - to understand what is required of you as a musician.

[warwickhunt]

Putting aside the self satisfaction debate, the value of what you do is down to the audience!

Whether you are doing original (is there any truly original material about and would you want to listen to it if it was so truly 'original') material or covers... do you entertain?

I've seen some shocking bands doing their own thing, just as I have covers bands (probably played in both types over the years) but at the end of the day you/me/us/them are entertainers.

If Joe & Josephine Public go home at the end of the night having been entertained and are satisfied, then there is value in what you have done.

[3V17C]

Personally I fought against going down the covers route for many years because I was one of the ones who felt like it was 'selling out' and I also figured you can do the pub gigs at any time whereas to play originals you have a 'best before date' age wise. The originals thing is very hard work, very expensive and very demoralizing at times and although I'm still vaguely on the lookout for something original I have to admit that I'm a bit long in the tooth and have 'been there/done that'.

I now play in a covers band and we are of a very good standard and do learn the songs 99.9% accurately down to the finest detail where possible. There are alot of bad covers bands around though but to be honest most punters don't seem too bothered but I think becasue we go that extra mile both musically and performance wise people do take notice of us rather than just have us as background music while they drink. Its pretty good fun, we gig at least once a week and thats kinda what its all about - getting out and playing in front of people and actually going home with some money in your back pocket rather than it all being absorbed by the band kitty for the next recording session/t-shirts/posters which is normally the way for originals bands.

The other thing with originals bands, I find anyway, is that most of them are really not very good and have absolutely no chance of making it, but they believe they do because their friends and family tell them they're the best thing since sliced what nots. There ARE some good originals bands but normally they all just sound exactly like whatever the latest big thing is (see the current post emo/whatever you wanna call it scene).


peace

c

[bassninja]

Its music. That's good enough.

`

[chris_b]

I have played in successful original bands and loved it because the songs were good. Why should I have to endure crap songs just because someone in the band wrote them! There is no value in doing that.

99.9% of original bands are not very good. They are usually boring and, funnily enough, have very little originality. Give me a band playing good songs, well, every time. That is also what the promoters and punters want!

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='3V17C' post='49079' date='Aug 22 2007, 05:33 PM']I now play in a covers band and we are of a very good standard and do learn the songs 99.9% accurately down to the finest detail where possible. There are alot of bad covers bands around though but to be honest most punters don't seem too bothered but I think becasue we go that extra mile both musically and performance wise people do take notice of us rather than just have us as background music while they drink. Its pretty good fun, we gig at least once a week and thats kinda what its all about - getting out and playing in front of people and actually going home with some money in your back pocket rather than it all being absorbed by the band kitty for the next recording session/t-shirts/posters which is normally the way for originals bands.[/quote]

I'd far rather listen to a covers band that played with heart and feeling and were tight than had the notes absolutely perfect as per the original record.

I've never heard an originals band play their own material note perfect to the record anyway, and if they were note perfect, then I'd suspect they were just playing over backing tapes...

[lee4]

I play in a band that does weddings,parties,etc,and also performs as an all originals band.Learning cover versions helps train your ear,i.e you can hear chord intervals and changes and therefore can learn any song faster.I have found playing cover versions has helped me explore new styles of playing and has helped me add parts to original songs faster.

[BigRedX]

Interesting points being made. Out of interest how many people here also write/compose songs/music as a major part of what you contribute towards your band as well as playing bass?

For me, I see myself as a writer/composer first and a musician second. Up until my current band every other band I've been involved in I was the main writer of the music that the band played. Even if I was joining an existing band, I found myself responisble for the majority of the new songs we wrote. I was never particularly bothered about cover versions, they were something that other bands did, and to be honest one of the things that drove me as both a writer and a musician was that there was very little music that was exactly what I wanted to hear, so I had to write my own if I wanted any more. My musical taste seldom co-incides with the mainstream so I don't normally enjoy covers bands unless they happen to play stuff I like and are very good at it. I'd rather be challenged by something new, but in the current musical climate in this country I see and hear very little of that even from "original" bands. I suppose it's no surprise that the original music that stimulates me at the moment comes mostly from Scandanavia and Japan.

However, in order to keep playing I have joined a band that had originally been doing mainly covers. Unfortunately there's a shortage of interesting original bands who are willing to taken on someone in their 40s as a member, no matter how proficient their musical skills are or how much they like the music being produced. I find it gratifying to see people up and dancing as we're playing but I'm also thinking "where were you b@st@rds when my last band was gigging?" because our songs were just as catchy and dancable (in many cases more so) but simply not as familiar. Also while I enjoy playing the songs and find it challenging to play in a style that is not one I would normally pick, I'm also not so sure how interested I would be in this band if I was not up on stage, but in the audience instead.

Edited August 22, 2007 by BigRedX

[gypsymoth]

avoid anyone who refers to themselves as an artist rather than a musician, bass player, guitarist etc.
aside from other issues, they would likely be just as pleased with themselves id they were doing comedy or magic or strip shows, and would still think of themselves as an artist.

play what you want, why you want to, and don't spend your time worrying about such things.

[Deep Thought]

[quote name='TheRev' post='48931' date='Aug 22 2007, 01:21 PM']This is about the only way an originals band can get any gigs - you try a few of your own songs in a set of covers and see how they go down. If people like 'em you chuck in a few more and then a few more til your whole set is original material and you bestride the planet like a rock Colossus.

It worked for the Beatles, The Stones and Muse....[/quote]

This is my current masterplan-we play covers at the moment but I'm gradually slipping in stuff I've written (I appear to be the principal songwriter), but I don't want to ditch the covers entirely-I like playing them! Only thing is, the snail-like pace at which I produce songs will mean it will take us another 15 years to achieve this goal!

[The Funk]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='49177' date='Aug 22 2007, 08:55 PM']Interesting points being made. Out of interest how many people here also write/compose songs/music as a major part of what you contribute towards your band as well as playing bass?

I was never particularly bothered about cover versions, they were something that other bands did, and to be honest one of the things that drove me as both a writer and a musician was that there was very little music that was exactly what I wanted to hear, so I had to write my own if I wanted any more.[/quote]

This is why I formed my own band where I write or co-write everything. Even though all my comments above show my respect for people who play in covers bands, I can only do that as a side thing to my own band. I treat the covers gigs as school time to really work on my playing, and my own gigs as the pay-off when I get to go out and have fun showing people what I'm all about musically.

I just wish I had time to do more covers gigs to work on my chops!

Edited August 22, 2007 by The Funk

[Hamster]

Whatever you do - have fun, get paid for having fun if you can, and enjoy the music whether you wrote it yourself or not. If anyone looks down their nose at you for that they need professional help

Hamster

[vmaxblues]

This old chestnut....

I play in a covers band, and my opinion is that in a covers band you are copying the best musicians in the industry, covering many styles, and offers a real challenge, whereas in an original band you will often will stay within your comfort zones and level of ability, both have ther merits but to hear nonsense about selling souls is just plain wrong. Often bands dont cover songs........because they can't, and writing original material is easy, writing great original material is insanely hard, and incredibly rare, and I for one get very tired of hearing predicatable immature writing performed, don't get me wrong there are some excellent originals bands out there (such as sketchbeat) but they are in the minority.

And, it's pretty much all already been done, and therefore originals tend to be 'influenced' by what has gone before, therefore represents a watered down cover.....


RETIRES TO SAFE DISTANCE

[3V17C]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='49161' date='Aug 22 2007, 08:05 PM']I'd far rather listen to a covers band that played with heart and feeling and were tight than had the notes absolutely perfect as per the original record.[/quote]

...oh we do all that too, in fact people always comment on both how tight we are and how much we move around and seem to be enjoying ourselves etc on stage...which we normally are!

peace

c

[EdwardHimself]

it depends really. i think orchestras and certain tribute bands can be really good. However if this applies to those really annoying pop singers/groups who get paid for a song written by some fat guy hired by their record company don't deserve to be called musicians IMO. People just haven't grasped the fact that there are at least as many good singers out there as there are good guitarrists or bassists.

[quote name='vmaxblues' post='49340' date='Aug 23 2007, 09:25 AM']This old chestnut....

I play in a covers band, and my opinion is that in a covers band you are copying the best musicians in the industry, covering many styles, and offers a real challenge, whereas in an original band you will often will stay within your comfort zones and level of ability, both have ther merits but to hear nonsense about selling souls is just plain wrong. Often bands dont cover songs........because they can't, and writing original material is easy, writing great original material is insanely hard, and incredibly rare, and I for one get very tired of hearing predicatable immature writing performed, don't get me wrong there are some excellent originals bands out there (such as sketchbeat) but they are in the minority.

And, it's pretty much all already been done, and therefore originals tend to be 'influenced' by what has gone before, therefore represents a watered down cover.....
RETIRES TO SAFE DISTANCE[/quote]

*gets rifle out*

I do know what you mean actually. There are just so many bands out there these days that being truly "original" is very difficult. However to call all original songs these days a "watered down cover" is just going a bit too far really. The fact is no1 has ever had an original thought in their life. any "original" thoughts are just a compliation of other's ideas and your own or other people's discoveries. Therefore all songs ever written at any time in history are all "watered down covers" if we go by that way of thinking.

Edited August 23, 2007 by EdwardHimself

[leonshelley01]

I play guitar in an "originals" band (I also record the bass parts as I'm teaching our bass player) and bass in a covers band. Whilst I get a thrill out of performing stuff I've written, I'm under no pretension that we are going to "make it" in any real sense, but the satisfaction you get if people sing along or come up afterwards and say "I really liked that song" is immense.

In the covers band, I get to let my hair down and enjoy myself. We change tempos, rhythms and even structures in order to fit our own playing styles. As a bass player, you can really let your imagination flow (unless the song relies heavily on the exising bass riff). In many ways, I'm playing for my own pleasure, rather than the audience. Playing covers also forces you to learn more styles, techniques etc. that you can utilise in your own writing.

Both types of band are equally valid, and the most important thing is to be out there playing with other musicians rather than be a bedroom bassist.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='leonshelley01' post='49412' date='Aug 23 2007, 11:18 AM']I play guitar in an "originals" band (I also record the bass parts as I'm teaching our bass player) and bass in a covers band. Whilst I get a thrill out of performing stuff I've written, I'm under no pretension that we are going to "make it" in any real sense, but the satisfaction you get if people sing along or come up afterwards and say "I really liked that song" is immense.

In the covers band, I get to let my hair down and enjoy myself. We change tempos, rhythms and even structures in order to fit our own playing styles. As a bass player, you can really let your imagination flow (unless the song relies heavily on the exising bass riff). In many ways, I'm playing for my own pleasure, rather than the audience. Playing covers also forces you to learn more styles, techniques etc. that you can utilise in your own writing.

Both types of band are equally valid, and the most important thing is to be out there playing with other musicians rather than be a bedroom bassist.[/quote]


this is it for me - i'm the other way around, i play bass in originals and guitar in covers but i enjoy being able to dick around (for want of a better word) doing the covers. plus it's cash in my pocket which allows me to go out and fund my indulgent bass buying!

[obbm]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='49348' date='Aug 23 2007, 09:39 AM']The fact is no1 has ever had an original thought in their life. any "original" thoughts are just a compliation of other's ideas and your own or other people's discoveries. Therefore all songs ever written at any time in history are all "watered down covers" if we go by that way of thinking.[/quote]

So where did the first song come from - an Alien visitation?

[The Funk]

Oooh - going to incorporate that into my band's mythology!

[JPJ]

My day job that supports the wife and family has nothing to do with music.

My hobby is playing bass, as a result when I get to play, I play covers.

Playing covers has developed my playing no end. I am from the 'classic rock' school of bass playing, but still enjoy stretching myself with a Flea workout now and again.

Playing covers allows me two things that I dont think playing in an original band would deliver (at least in the short term, if ever). Firstly, I get paid for my efforts and that it is satisfying as someone is giving me money for playing bass which is effectively saying 'here you go, you are a musician". Secondly, when you get it right and the audience are up for it, I take huge satisfaction from seeing them having a good time. Perhaps the ulitimate accolade is when a punter comes up to you at the end of the night and lets you know how much they have enjoyed themselves.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='obbm' post='49421' date='Aug 23 2007, 11:35 AM']So where did the first song come from - an Alien visitation?[/quote]

don't know but it would have been influenced by something. Probably some sort of discovery.