I just discovered Joni Mitchell. With Jaco.

[StickyDBRmf]

Yeah. He got it. And she got him. Of course she would marry a bass player. 

[ezbass]

I'm very fond of this particular Mitchell/Klein track.

 

 

[songofthewind]

1 hour ago, ezbass said:

It must be remembered that Joni married a bass player of some renown, the wonderful Larry Klein.

The Bass Player and The Blonde. Shoulda been me.

[silverfoxnik]

2 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Before this becomes a full Joni love-in, I can't be doing with her at all. 😜

Too much singing and absolutely no funk. All beautifully played, and completely bland, no musical interest at all for me.

And I have spent lots of time being forced to listen to many of her offerings ("Oh you'll love this one" "Nope". "But the lyrics are so deep!" "Well so's Krubera Cave but I have no intention of going down there!" etc)

Sorry to say, but you're way too late - which isn't such a good look for a funk- obsessed bass player, Mr Smalls! 😜

 

That 'Joni love-in' you referred to has been going on for millions of people around the world for over 50 years now, and shows no sign of abating anytime soon.. 

 

[Piers_Williamson]

2 hours ago, ezbass said:

It must be remembered that Joni married a bass player of some renown, the wonderful Larry Klein.

I think she met one or two men in her time...... I was lucky enough to see her play with Larry Klein at Wembley.  Dare I say I think Jaco (or even Pino) were probably a bit more interesting (as bass players)

[TKenrick]

As others have already said, I'm deeply envious that you get to discover all of Joni's wonderful work.

 

I had a listening project last year where I listened through her back catalogue from start to finish (one album a week). Luckily that was before she pulled everything off Spotify...

 

The Jaco/Joni era has many great moments - 'Talk To Me' from Don Juan's Reckless Daughter never gets much attention, but is one of my favourites, along with 'Refuge of the Roads'. Max Bennett played some great bass on Hissing of the Summer Lawns, too.

 

For those who want to go full nerd there's a decent biography, Reckless Daughter, that helped to provide context for a lot of her songs.

[White Cloud]

FWIW, Jaco had a full blown affair with Joni which ended his marriage.

 

I think Joni is a musical genius btw! 

[Passinwind]

19 hours ago, Piers_Williamson said:

One of my favourite albums of all time is Shadows and Light.  It also made me a life long fan of Pat Methingy and Lyle Mays (the latter now sadly RIP)

Saw a date on that tour. I was already a huge fan of everyone involved and was lucky enough to have seen Metheny and Mays in small clubs for small money many times, which was easy if you lived around Boston or pretty much anywhere in New England in the mid 70s. Seeing Pat play in a sold out hockey arena and eschewing the rock star persona was just uber cool.  The spotlight suited Jaco perfectly though of course.

[Bigguy2017]

On 03/08/2022 at 01:29, bubinga5 said:

I recently watched a documentary called Laurel Canyon. This womans music popped up.. Fabulous.

 

One of my favourite live recordings - Joni is really cooking' - the whole band is so together - great energy.

Just wish Jaco would turn down a bit - is it just me or (heresy!) does Jaco turn everything into the Jaco P show?

[uk_lefty]

8 minutes ago, Bigguy2017 said:

Just wish Jaco would turn down a bit - is it just me or (heresy!) does Jaco turn everything into the Jaco P show?

That would be an interesting question for a non-bassist! I think we are all too biased to answer correctly. I personally love Jaco and don't find him too much on the Joni recordings or live work, if she didn't want that style she should have hired someone else is my view.... But I fully get why anyone would say the opposite!

[Leonard Smalls]

14 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

This explains much of our musical relationship. 

But we both like Magma, and appropriately-placed a'postrophes!

But back to la Mitchell; I'm sure she wouldn't care what I thought (nor should she!), but it's not just her I don't like... It's acoustic guitars with a singer attached (not the guitar so much - love a bit of Eduardo Niebla - it's the dinkydinky strumming).

Many years ago I went camping with some folks, some of whom I didn't know very well - turns out it was with good reason! We built a campfire, I broke out the Bruichladdich ready to have a nice and increasingly drunken chat looking into the flames and listening to the sounds of the night. But at least 5 of these evil gits had other ideas. They produced acoustic guitars - not lovely little flamenco ones but those big, overly-loud folk ones - and proceeded to strum their way through "I'm leaving (on a jet plane)" and various other songs, including the one about the yellow taxi and various other of those nadirs of music also known as 60s and 70s Americana. Perhaps if there'd been less of that sense of enforced jollity, or perhaps even the tiniest iota of actual musical skill rather than just every note and beat with exactly the same intonation, with no hint of even the slightest syncopation I'd feel differently about that sort of hippydippy strumfest. As it is I still wake up screaming with the words "Kum bye R" (wtf?) bouncing around in me heid.

And to those who feel personally affronted by my hatred of Joni (and Janis, and Neil Young, and Boob Dylan), don't be! I can't understand why someone can't feel the majesty of Ornette Coleman, but also realise that it's Different Strokes For Different Folks...

[BassTractor]

2 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

And to those who feel personally affronted by my hatred of Joni (and Janis, and Neil Young, and Boob Dylan), don't be! I can't understand why someone can't feel the majesty of Ornette Coleman, but also realise that it's Different Strokes For Different Folks...

Apparently I have a much more balanced view than you: I love Joni and  hate Joni. 😃
Or, spoken in more serious terms, I love many of her songs and at the same time react with slight unease to some strictly amateuristic chord progressions where she displays an abundant lack of ability to understand why those choices are unmusical and what she could've done about them.
Still love those songs though, as well as her sense of continuing musical lines so they never seem to stop, AFAIK rare in pop music, and I far prefer her meanderings to some overtly slick offerings by many formally educated musicians who just go through the motions without offering something new and exciting (you know the type: Juilliard educated studio musician types and the lot).

So far so good. I have no essential beef with her music, own many of her albums and love them - even live recordings from '66. I won't be seen buying albums by the mentioned slick ones.

At the same time I'm saddened by Joni's apparent need to defend her chord progressions (supposedly after criticism by unknown sources) by means of arguments from authority (Yeah, but <name musician> says my chords are "interesting" so these people who are negative should ... ), as if <name musician> wasn't just being kind and polite after shaking his head in disbelief.
In this she also effectively tells her audience that if you can hear weaknesses she can't hear, then it's you who has the problem. Er ... no, Joni. We all do our best within the limitations of our resources, and so do you.


Oh, and I'm with Leonard Smalls as to Ornette Coleman and people of his ilk.
 

Edited August 4, 2022 by BassTractor

[Beer of the Bass]

2 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

 

Many years ago I went camping with some folks, some of whom I didn't know very well - turns out it was with good reason! We built a campfire, I broke out the Bruichladdich ready to have a nice and increasingly drunken chat looking into the flames and listening to the sounds of the night. But at least 5 of these evil gits had other ideas. They produced acoustic guitars - not lovely little flamenco ones but those big, overly-loud folk ones - and proceeded to strum their way through "I'm leaving (on a jet plane)" and various other songs, including the one about the yellow taxi and various other of those nadirs of music also known as 60s and 70s Americana. Perhaps if there'd been less of that sense of enforced jollity, or perhaps even the tiniest iota of actual musical skill rather than just every note and beat with exactly the same intonation, with no hint of even the slightest syncopation I'd feel differently about that sort of hippydippy strumfest. As it is I still wake up screaming with the words "Kum bye R" (wtf?) bouncing around in me heid.

And to those who feel personally affronted by my hatred of Joni (and Janis, and Neil Young, and Boob Dylan), don't be! I can't understand why someone can't feel the majesty of Ornette Coleman, but also realise that it's Different Strokes For Different Folks...

 

Could have been worse - you haven't truly known campfire singalong horror until you've heard a public schooled, land owning, white British trust fund hippy with dreadlocks murdering Redemption Song at 4am, and truly believing he's providing a beautiful and significant moment for everyone there!

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, Beer of the Bass said:

public schooled, land owning, white British trust fund hippy with dreadlocks murdering Redemption Song at 4am

Sounds similar to those from my nightmare - except it wasn't just one of the buggrs! 

[silverfoxnik]

6 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

And to those who feel personally affronted by my hatred of Joni (and Janis, and Neil Young, and Boob Dylan), don't be! I can't understand why someone can't feel the majesty of Ornette Coleman, but also realise that it's Different Strokes For Different Folks...

 

Boob Dylan 😂

 

Most definitely not affronted btw!

 

And your campfire experience sounds truly awful.... 

 

I just checked out Ornette Coleman's Harmolodics film on YouTube - wow, what an interesting guy and clearly a unique musician and composer. I will definitely be investigating his back catalogue further... 👍

 

It is as you say, different strokes etc, etc. 

 

I'll always love Joni Mitchell's music & lyrics, but there's plenty of room in my old brain for new artists, new music and different points of view... 

 

.. except where Jamiroquoi are concerned! 

 

But that's a whole other story. 😁

 

[Beedster]

9 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

I'll always love Joni Mitchell's music & lyrics, but there's plenty of room in my old brain for new artists, new music and different points of view... 

 

.. except where Jamiroquoi are concerned! 

 

But that's a whole other story. 😁

 

 

You juts won't let that one go will you Nik, although I suspect Jamiroquoi might be a French Jamiroquai tribute act.... 🤔

[Beedster]

7 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

But we both like Magma, and appropriately-placed a'postrophes!

But back to la Mitchell; I'm sure she wouldn't care what I thought (nor should she!), but it's not just her I don't like... It's acoustic guitars with a singer attached (not the guitar so much - love a bit of Eduardo Niebla - it's the dinkydinky strumming).

Many years ago I went camping with some folks, some of whom I didn't know very well - turns out it was with good reason! We built a campfire, I broke out the Bruichladdich ready to have a nice and increasingly drunken chat looking into the flames and listening to the sounds of the night. But at least 5 of these evil gits had other ideas. They produced acoustic guitars - not lovely little flamenco ones but those big, overly-loud folk ones - and proceeded to strum their way through "I'm leaving (on a jet plane)" and various other songs, including the one about the yellow taxi and various other of those nadirs of music also known as 60s and 70s Americana. Perhaps if there'd been less of that sense of enforced jollity, or perhaps even the tiniest iota of actual musical skill rather than just every note and beat with exactly the same intonation, with no hint of even the slightest syncopation I'd feel differently about that sort of hippydippy strumfest. As it is I still wake up screaming with the words "Kum bye R" (wtf?) bouncing around in me heid.

And to those who feel personally affronted by my hatred of Joni (and Janis, and Neil Young, and Boob Dylan), don't be! I can't understand why someone can't feel the majesty of Ornette Coleman, but also realise that it's Different Strokes For Different Folks...

I'm with you dude, it was never acoustic guitars per se, it was always strummed acoustic guitars. As any reasonable person will no doubt agree, strumming is about the laziest form of musicianship possible, the word itself even sounds lazy "Hey you gonna pick?" "No man, I'm gonna struuuum...". But there is something worse than a strummed 6-string acoustic.......... a strummed 12-string acoustic, the work of the devil and something that ultimately made me hate much of Tom Petty's recorded music despite loving his songs

[ezbass]

5 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

You juts won't let that one go will you Nik, although I suspect Jamiroquoi might be a French Jamiroquai tribute act.... 🤔

Could be a mashup of Jamiroquai and quoi - Jamiro-what? Which possibly sums up a fair few folk’s thoughts on the band (well, at least Jay K).

[silverfoxnik]

17 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

You juts won't let that one go will you Nik, although I suspect Jamiroquoi might be a French Jamiroquai tribute act.... 🤔

So, they'll be even worse then, Chris! 😂

[ezbass]

3 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

So, they'll be even worse then, Chris! 😂

They’ll be performing such hits as:

C'est une fille cosmique; Trop jeune pour mourir; Folie virtuelle.

 

Featuring Nicolas Turzender on la guitare basse.

[Dan Dare]

8 hours ago, Bigguy2017 said:

does Jaco turn everything into the Jaco P show?

 

He did and it cost him his life, sadly. Astonishing player, but the sort of person best admired from afar, imho.

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, silverfoxnik said:

So, they'll be even worse then, Chris! 😂

I'd have assumed you'd have gone for better Nik? 

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

a strummed 12-string acoustic,

😨

Double eek!

This is what should happen in these situations.... X Factor judge in common sense shock!

 

 

[Beedster]

40 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

He did and it cost him his life, sadly. Astonishing player, but the sort of person best admired from afar, imho.

 

This is a sad reflection to a degree on Jaco's extraordinary talent and the limited understanding of the effects talent/success/fame/illness/addiction at the time. There's the horrible moment in his own instructional DVD where he says to his co-presenter following a compliment on his playing "Well give me a gig man" that say it all  

[BassTractor]

4 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

 

 

 

Hm. I thought he started a bit weakly, but got a lot better when he came to
"And achieve it all with music that came quickly from afar,
Then taste the fruit of man recorded losing all against the hour
And assessing points to nowhere, leading every single one".