Tried listening to Genesis today.....

[toneknob]

Duke Suite starts at 37m14s. But watch all of it, it's amazing.

 

[visog]

I'm post-Gabriel too... love the pastoral Trick and W&W phase - beautiful records and some really interesting, intricate music... deconstructed here by Rick Beato:

 

 

[merello]

On 05/08/2022 at 23:51, 4000 said:

Genesis are one of my 3 or 4 favourite bands. I love both the Phil and PG eras. I discovered Genesis via Follow You and ATTWT in ‘78, then bought Seconds Out and worked my way gradually backwards, so the problems many have with the Phil era, them having heard PG first, don’t exist for me. If anything it was a little jarring the first time I heard PG!

 

My favourite studio albums remain the relatively unloved ATTWT - which I absolutely love, one of my all-time favourite albums - and TOTT. The much-loved W&W I like, but not as much; same with Duke. Seconds Out is my favourite Genesis album (in fact my favourite live album ever, along with Space Ritual). The PG-era stuff is mostly great, but I do feel the playing and production isn’t as good as on later albums. The Seconds Out version of Supper’s Ready blows the Foxtrot version (as good as that is) away IMO. But either way, I love them; they mean the world to me. 

Pretty close to my journey but must say they really lost something when Hackett left. His shows these days are magical.

[4000]

1 hour ago, merello said:

Pretty close to my journey but must say they really lost something when Hackett left. His shows these days are magical.

Like PG, because Hackett wasn’t in them when I first started listening to them, I didn’t really miss him (not that he isn’t great). I’ve seen Hackett live - probably about 4 or 5 years ago? - but I’m not totally enamoured of his band, at least when I saw them. I’m a bit anal about how the Genesis stuff is played and to me - at that time anyway - it was too much of an approximation.

Edited August 7, 2022 by 4000

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

Like PG, because Hackett wasn’t in them when I first started listening to them, I didn’t really miss him (not that he isn’t great). I’ve seen Hackett live - probably about 4 or 5 years ago? - but I’m not totally enamoured of his band, at least when I saw them. I’m a bit anal about how the Genesis stuff is played and to me - at that time anyway - it was too much of an approximation.

I saw SH’s last tour - Seconds Out - and I thought it was rotten. The band completely missed the point.

[4000]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

I saw SH’s last tour - Seconds Out - and I thought it was rotten. The band completely missed the point.

We had tickets for that but it was the same night as Genesis and we (obviously) chose Genesis. I didn’t regret it; the Genesis gig, even with Phil’s issues and the dearth of older material, was far, far better than the Hackett one that I saw. 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Just now, wateroftyne said:

I saw SH’s last tour - Seconds Out - and I thought it was rotten. The band completely missed the point.

As good as Hackett is, and he still smashes that sound you want to hear, it’s the rest of the band that usually lets it down for me. I’m not saying this just ‘cos they’re not Genesis, but the feel is wrong for me. The best performance I saw was the Selling England Tour he did. Even then, I didn’t enjoy the vocals that much.

 

Controversial I know, but I enjoyed The Musical Box more. That reminds me, I have tickets to see TMB again for a gig that has been postponed more times than any other I’ve had tickets for during the COVID years. I think it’s now early 2023.

[4000]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

As good as Hackett is, and he still smashes that sound you want to hear, it’s the rest of the band that usually lets it down for me. I’m not saying this just ‘cos they’re not Genesis, but the feel is wrong for me. The best performance I saw was the Selling England Tour he did. Even then, I didn’t enjoy the vocals that much.

 

Controversial I know, but I enjoyed The Musical Box more. That reminds me, I have tickets to see TMB again for a gig that has been postponed more times than any other I’ve had tickets for during the COVID years. I think it’s now early 2023.

It’s the band that lets it down for me too. I agree that they just don’t have the right feel. 
 

I’ve seen MB four times and much preferred them to the Hackett gig, as has been discussed in previous threads. They capture the Genesis sound & feel far better, IMO. 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

On 06/08/2022 at 10:38, toneknob said:

Duke Suite starts at 37m14s. But watch all of it, it's amazing.

 

I remember the Lyceum gig from the 7th of May being broadcast on the Old Grey Whistle Test. I taped it and wore that VHS out with repeated playing.

This You Tube video is actually a combination of the 6th and 7th (video from one night and audio from the other) which kind of makes it all the more impressive.

I wish they had pro-shot more of their gigs.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

8 minutes ago, 4000 said:

It’s the band that lets it down for me too. I agree that they just don’t have the right feel. 
 

I’ve seen MB four times and much preferred them to the Hackett gig, as has been discussed in previous threads. They capture the Genesis sound & feel far better, IMO. 

I remember closing my eyes for about 30 seconds during their performance of I Know What I Like the last time I saw them. A bit like that blind bass quiz that happened at the bass bash, I reckon even the best wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference between The Musical Box and the real deal on sound alone for that song.

[wateroftyne]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I remember closing my eyes for about 30 seconds during their performance of I Know What I Like the last time I saw them. A bit like that blind bass quiz that happened at the bass bash, I reckon even the best wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference between The Musical Box and the real deal on sound alone for that song.

There’s a South American lot who are astonishing as well.

 

Last time I saw SH (and I’ve seen him a lot) his version of IKWIL made me sick up in my mouth a little bit. Wretched.

[Woodinblack]

I saw the musical box and hacket in the same year. I thought Hacket was great (even with Nad, of whom I am not a fan!), and the Musical box, I don't think I would bother going to see them again. They did what they did fine, effectively a theatrical performance of an old genesis show, but it didn't have life and I didn't enjoy them. 

[4000]

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I saw the musical box and hacket in the same year. I thought Hacket was great (even with Nad, of whom I am not a fan!), and the Musical box, I don't think I would bother going to see them again. They did what they did fine, effectively a theatrical performance of an old genesis show, but it didn't have life and I didn't enjoy them. 

In an effort to describe the difference between the two bands, MB are quite obviously a tribute and try and play everything as faithfully as possible, in terms of feel and sound. Hackett’s band play the songs more like a cover band than a tribute band, playing the songs but not particularly faithfully, which I personally am never going to like as much.  As we’ve discussed before, YMMV, obviously. 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, 4000 said:

In an effort to describe the difference between the two bands, MB are quite obviously a tribute and try and play everything as faithfully as possible, in terms of feel and sound. Hackett’s band play the songs more like a cover band than a tribute band, playing the songs but not particularly faithfully, which I personally am never going to like as much.  As we’ve discussed before, YMMV, obviously. 

 

I agree with the concept rather than the terms - I don't think I am ever going to particularly like tributes, its a bit of a copy of the original - as you say, faithful to one gig at one point in time, like an acted video or a play.  I find that Hacketts stuff is more original, I wouldn't say cover band as they are his songs so more like an original band doing their songs, never quite the same as these things evolve over 50 years, so I find them more interesting. 

[wateroftyne]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I find that Hacketts stuff is more original, I wouldn't say cover band as they are his songs so more like an original band doing their songs, never quite the same as these things evolve over 50 years, so I find them more interesting. 

Problem with Hackett’s band is - IMO - they’ve hoyed the baby out with the bathwater.

 

His recent original stuff has been - again IMO - dreadful prog-by-numbers.

 

(Still a big Hackett fan, believe it or not)

[2pods]

" Genesis Live" cuts the mustard for me.

 

Apparently meant to be a double album, but dropped "Supper's Ready" to keep the price down (allegedly)

Still have the CD version.

 

Saw them at the Glasgow Apollo on the SEBTP tour. Extra long show, as rescheduled due to stage being live on the original date, so Ron Geeshin was dropped as support

 

[wateroftyne]

14 minutes ago, 2pods said:

" Genesis Live" cuts the mustard for me.

 

Apparently meant to be a double album, but dropped "Supper's Ready" to keep the price down (allegedly)

Still have the CD version.

If you can pick up Archive or the first big box set, there’s more of the show (including Supper’s Ready) on there.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

16 minutes ago, 2pods said:

" Genesis Live" cuts the mustard for me.

 

Apparently meant to be a double album, but dropped "Supper's Ready" to keep the price down (allegedly)

Still have the CD version.

 

Saw them at the Glasgow Apollo on the SEBTP tour. Extra long show, as rescheduled due to stage being live on the original date, so Ron Geeshin was dropped as support

 

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

If you can pick up Archive or the first big box set, there’s more of the show (including Supper’s Ready) on there.

 

Supper's Ready was recorded for the Genesis Live release, but as you say, was omitted for various reasons. Test pressings were made of the double album including Supper's Ready, this being my digital version of it. The songs on the boxed sets had some re-recordings done I believe.

 

 

 

[2pods]

I also "created" my own "Live" with the Archive "Supper's Ready"

[4000]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I agree with the concept rather than the terms - I don't think I am ever going to particularly like tributes, its a bit of a copy of the original - as you say, faithful to one gig at one point in time, like an acted video or a play.  I find that Hacketts stuff is more original, I wouldn't say cover band as they are his songs so more like an original band doing their songs, never quite the same as these things evolve over 50 years, so I find them more interesting. 

I think the bit that doesn’t work for me is the rest of the band, as I mentioned earlier. So it’s only 1 element of the band - Steve - being reasonably faithful to the feel/mood/playing of the original band. The rest aren’t really anything like, and IMO don’t sound like Genesis. As we’ve discussed before, when I’m listening to Genesis I personally want to hear something that sounds exactly like Genesis. Not a different-sounding band playing Genesis songs. That doesn’t interest me at all, unless they’re doing something really original with them, and Steve’s band aren’t. They sound exactly like a cover band to me. 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Just now, 4000 said:

I think the bit that doesn’t work for me is the rest of the band, as I mentioned earlier. So it’s only 1 element of the band - Steve - being reasonably faithful to the feel/mood/playing of the original band. The rest aren’t really anything like, and IMO don’t sound like Genesis. As we’ve discussed before, when I’m listening to Genesis I personally want to hear something that sounds exactly like Genesis. Not a different-sounding band playing Genesis songs. That doesn’t interest me at all, unless they’re doing something really original with them, and Steve’s band aren’t. They sound exactly like a cover band to me. 

Could it be something to do with the fact the The Musical Box make the effort to source and play with period correct equipment?

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Could it be something to do with the fact the The Musical Box make the effort to source and play with period correct equipment?

….although I do think that they, as a band, have a better feel for the music anyway.

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Could it be something to do with the fact the The Musical Box make the effort to source and play with period correct equipment?

 

But they don't though - they can't. They play with a lot of 50 year old equipment that would have worn over the 50 years. When genesis played with that, it was new equipment that would have sounded different. Unless they play with newly made reproductions of the old equipment it wouldn't be anything like the same

 

8 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

….although I do think that they, as a band, have a better feel for the music anyway.

 

Not what I heard when I saw them, but then to be fair, I didn't actually see genesis in the 70s, but if they sounded as lifeless as that they wouldn't be one of my favourite bands!

[wateroftyne]

22 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Could it be something to do with the fact the The Musical Box make the effort to source and play with period correct equipment?

Nah, it’s about feel and arrangements.

[4000]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But they don't though - they can't. They play with a lot of 50 year old equipment that would have worn over the 50 years. When genesis played with that, it was new equipment that would have sounded different. Unless they play with newly made reproductions of the old equipment it wouldn't be anything like the same

 

 

Not what I heard when I saw them, but then to be fair, I didn't actually see genesis in the 70s, but if they sounded as lifeless as that they wouldn't be one of my favourite bands!

It wouldn’t have sounded that different. And it would still sound far more like the original than completely different equipment. 
 

Maybe they had a bad night when you saw them?  I’ve seen them 4 times and ‘lifeless’ certainly doesn’t apply!