Dingwall Tone Fusion control - anyone replaced theirs with a conventional tone control?

[JapanAxe]

I bloody love my Dingwall PZ5, purchased from @krispn of this parish just over 3 years ago. I've realised there is a feature I rarely use, namely the top half of the sweep of the Tone Fusion Control. Going back over old threads I notice @CameronJ said he rarely used that part of the control too.

 

I'm now considering swapping it out for a traditional tone pot, perhaps with a larger-value capacitor to allow for more treble roll-off. Has anyone else done this with theirs? Obviously I would keep the parts to install in the unlikely event that I ever sold the bass.

 

Just so y'all know where I'm coming from, I favour a fat mid-focused sound and don't get on with Jazz basses, onboard active EQ, or tweeters in bass cabs. Yes I'm that bloke.

[CameronJ]

Yep! I put a Stellartone ToneStyler in my old Super P5 a few years back (it’s sold now) and have recently done exactly the same thing with my Super PJ5, installed by @thebassgallery.

 

Cannot recommend this mod highly enough - my Super PJ5 actually had a “normal” tone control in it as standard (it’s only the Super P’s without the additional bridge pickup that come with the two way Tone Fusion pot) but it had become noisy/scratchy over time so doing this mod killed two birds with one stone. I got rid of the old noisy pot and now have distinct incremental control of my tone, including a bypassed setting and a “sub” bass setting, at each end of the pot’s travel respectively.

 

The problem with the stock Tone Fusion pot - clever though it may be - is that the side most of us will use most frequently (the treble rolloff) now has half the amount of travel which makes it far less easy to get precise control. Stick in a standard tone pot and you won’t look back, I can pretty much guarantee.

[JapanAxe]

You’re dead right about the limited travel of the treble roll-off side. I’m used to riding the tone pot from song to song on my other Precisions but the ToneFusion is (at best) half as easy to use as a regular passive tone pot.

 

One thing I do like about it is the no-load setting at the detent position. I’ve had a quick look into the ToneStyler and the #10 position on the B-10 unit does this. You can also get no-load tone pots though.

[krispn]

@JapanAxei have a stellar tone tone styler for sale - it’s a B10 I used it in a p bass not the PZ5. and there’s a demo on bc somewhere with me using it with a TBird pick up. I’m at work but a search on bc should find it and let you hear it. 
 

Just saying 😀

Edited August 5, 2022 by krispn

[Muzz]

FWIW (tho not strictly OT), I put an East pre in my ABZ, and it really brought it to life...

[JapanAxe]

1 minute ago, Muzz said:

FWIW (tho not strictly OT), I put an East pre in my ABZ, and it really brought it to life...

Yes I thought there would be people who had gone down the active route. I’ve owned and enjoyed active basses but passive is where I live.

[JapanAxe]

9 minutes ago, krispn said:

@JapanAxei have a stellar tone tone styler for sale - it’s a B10 I used it in a p bass not the PZ5. and there’s a demo on bc somewhere with me using it with a TBird pick up. I’m at work but a search on bc should find it and let you hear it. 
 

Just saying 😀

PM’d!

[krispn]

Some audio of the B10 in my P bass with a TBird pick up 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/347215-tone-styler-bass10-soundcloud-link-added/

[JapanAxe]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

Some audio of the B10 in my P bass with a TBird pick up 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/347215-tone-styler-bass10-soundcloud-link-added/

Nice!

[CameronJ]

@JapanAxe you’re gonna love it man!

[JapanAxe]

I do like what I’m hearing from the ToneStyler. As a chap who builds his own amps I think I’ll have a go at making my own though - I’m pretty sure I’ve got all the parts in my stash already!

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by JapanAxe

[CameronJ]

Definitely following this thread! I'd love to see (or hear) how it turns out @JapanAxe

Edited August 6, 2022 by CameronJ

[CameronJ]

While I think of it - @KiOgon, have you ever thought about making these? I get the feeling they'd sell like hotcakes here.

[JapanAxe]

Today I removed the Tone Fusion control. I had thought of leaving the bass like that so that I could try various cap/resistor combinations on an external tone control ‘bread board’ but then I had a better idea. I got a 250k log pot and 47nF pot out of my parts stash but I modified the pot for ‘no load’ when turned up full. I had to widen the hole to 3/8in as the Tone Fusion pot is a little 16mm Alpha with a narrow bushing. While I was in there I noticed the string earth connection was hanging on by a single strand so I fixed that. The tone control now works in the traditional way, with the benefit of unadulterated bright tone when fully clockwise.

 

I still plan to try out the bread board thing though.

[JapanAxe]

And it all sounds great!

[JapanAxe]

I've just set up a 'breadboard' to test values in the DIY tone selector. Here's the plan: The current tone pot is modded for no-load at full up. I'll keep volume and tone on the bass maxed and interpose this gubbins between bass and amp. I'll listen to how each setting sounds, and if any are too 'peaky' I can add a resistor in series with the cap to tame the resonant peak. It's gone midnight now so not a good time to be testing bass, I'll get some sleep first.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by JapanAxe

[JapanAxe]

I tried this out this morning. The two smallest capacitors (150pF and 390pF) made no discernible difference to my ear, and the largest (82nF) was maybe too dark to be useful. The other values all gave good usable sounds, and I didn’t think any were too ‘peaky’ at their resonant frequency, so no resistors required. For the next iteration I’ll probably try more closely spaced values from 47nF down to 1nF.

 

Also there is quite a loud click through the amp when changing settings. I think my rotary switch is break-before-make so it might be worth trying a make-before-break if I can find one. Alternatively I could try some high value resistors (2M2?) between the poles of the switch.

[JapanAxe]

Well the 2M2 resistors didn't do anything so I've ordered a make-before-break rotary. It's another 12-way but I may not use all 12 positions, I can always set the stop lower if I want.

[JapanAxe]

The new rotary switch has arrived but in the meantime I have ordered some more capacitors, mylar ones with long flexible legs. I chose alternating values from the E12 series which turned out to be those not in the E6 series. Consequently there are a few values I don’t have in my stash, and some that I do are PCB types that would be awkward to fit to the switch.

 

My next bass gig is a week tomorrow and I have a fair amount of material to be working on for 3 (yes three) bands, so I’ll likely do that gig with the current traditional tone pot.

[JapanAxe]

I set up the breadboard with the make-before-break (shorting) switch and the new cap values. Somewhat disappointed that there is still a click when switching values, and wondering how Stellartone get round this. I've also worked out a way to connect all but the biggest cap between the switch lugs rather than to ground, adding one cap at once in series to reduce the overall capacitance at each detent of the rotary - not sure whether that would be less clicky. I'll spend a bit more time playing with it before I decide whether to try this in my Dingwall or just stick with the traditional tone pot.

 

[JapanAxe]

In case anyone was holding their breath I decided to stick with my DIY no-load tone pot.

[krispn]

And breathe!!! Thanks Wim Hof. Iv’e got it from here.