Huggy and the Bears Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Just thought I'd float this and see what you think... I practice with the band at my house periodically. Sometimes once a week for a couple of weeks (if we are not gigging) but usually once every 2 or three weeks. We (2 guitars, bass and drums) play in my living room - detached house on busy main road, no neigbours on one side, colleague from work on the other side, vacant house over the road, friends either side of that. Always have windows and doors closed and only use one monitor for vocals so not flat out at all. Usually pitch up at 6 o'clock on a Thursday and jam till no later than 9. We stop for a beer or brew and so it is not constant. Anyway, 2 weeks ago I received a letter from the council informing me that they have received a complaint about loud music from my house. This is unsubstantiated but non the less they were keeping me in the loop. I called them and firstly apologised and asked for my apology to be passed on and invited anybody to come and chat to me about it as I am cool about it and the last thing I want to do is upset anyone. The council worker read the file (sh*t! - I've got a file!) and identified that someone had claimed that I was 'band practicing every week, in my garage, very loudly'. So, I accept that I have clearly aggrevated someone but (at the risk of appearing to be splitting hairs) would deny playing in my garage (did play in it for a couple of months (me and a guitarist) up until 12 months a go) but not since, and we certainly do not play every week. Additionally, they pointed out that at this stage there is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this complaint and have recommended that the complainant keeps a diary of noise. So, I concede to upsetting a neigbour and apologise for this but would like to work around the problem and still be able to play without any aggro. Therefore what are reasonable noise levels and times for making the noise so that I could negotiate via the council a way forward rather than just stopping playing at home. Sorry for the ramble! Any ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think the first thing would be to ask your council and ask them what they would consider reasonable, both in terms of frequency of practice and volume levels. Then as long as you reasonably adhere to their guidelines you should be litigation free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-ic Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You could post a note through everyones door, or you could invite them to email (annonymously if preffered) with their objections. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass-ic Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Hamster' post='464838' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:34 AM']I think the first thing would be to ask your council and ask them what they would consider reasonable, both in terms of frequency of practice and volume levels. Then as long as you reasonably adhere to their guidelines you should be litigation free.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 What usually happens in these situations is that the complainant gets increasingly annoyed over a period of months or years, stewing away in their house getting more and more frustrated, but too afraid of confrontation to talk to you directly. Eventually they reach breaking point and decide to lodge a formal complaint. Sadly, by the time they reach this point, there's not much you can do to placate them. They won't be interested in a compromise. If you want to continue rehearsing in your house, you're going to have to find a way of doing it at a vastly lower volume level so that the complainant can't hear you at all. You'll need to be quiet enough that you can hear the vocals without amplification. The drummer will need to either use an electronic kit or just rehearse with snare and hi-hat. Or you can spend loads on sound-proofing. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I'd crank it up a bit. If someone is so sad that they can't have a polite word with you prior to going to the council, then they should have their face torn off by rabid dogs. Either that or a polite letter through your neighbours doors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJTee Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Get your band to play at the normal level, then go outside and have a listen outside the nearest property to see if the noise is significant and likely to be impacting on your neighbour's ability to enjoy their property (i.e. relax, watch TV without wacking the volume up). If yes, turn down to a level where you think it's acceptable and unlikely to be causing disturbance. The Council are very unlikely to tell you what volume level and frequency to play at, so you will just have to use a bit of common sense. From what you have said though, it doesn't sound particularly unreasonable provided you're not really loud and disturbing at the nearest property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I had this trouble once over dog barking. The prat next door (who was one of the most irritating territorial gits I have ever met - and he was only in his 20s) wrote to the council, they wrote to us saying they were monitoring the situation. We did nothing because we felt the complaint was unreasonable. That was the last we heard of it (2004). The world is full of what are called 'vexacious litigants', inveterate complainers who have nothing better to do than seek exercise power and force their values onto others. They usually do it anonymously because they lack the social skills to do it to your face. These people are ill-equipped to live in close proximity to others and should go and find a cottage up a mountain somewhere where they can live in silence and without someone invasing their vast acreage of personal space. You have a right to make reasonable noise and it sounds to me that you are being reasonable by stopping at an reasonable time, not playing there every day and not playing too loud. Most councils would agree with me. I wouldn't lie awake worrying about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 A friend of mine reguarlly put on "house shows" in his terraced house. Hardcore bands from around the country (and several touring acts from the USA) would turn up at his house and play his front room. The shows were really great - I went to quite a few. He ignored these orders from the council and eventually got a court summons. Oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I guess that the best option would be to use a rehearsal room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 It seems to me you need to figure out if you can compromise and hopefully get along with the complainant. Writing a very sensitively worded letter regarding the complaint and posting it through all of your neighbours doors is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy and the Bears Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='464843' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:38 AM']What usually happens in these situations is that the complainant gets increasingly annoyed over a period of months or years, stewing away in their house getting more and more frustrated, but too afraid of confrontation to talk to you directly. Eventually they reach breaking point and decide to lodge a formal complaint. Sadly, by the time they reach this point, there's not much you can do to placate them. They won't be interested in a compromise. If you want to continue rehearsing in your house, you're going to have to find a way of doing it at a vastly lower volume level so that the complainant can't hear you at all. You'll need to be quiet enough that you can hear the vocals without amplification. The drummer will need to either use an electronic kit or just rehearse with snare and hi-hat. Or you can spend loads on sound-proofing. S.P.[/quote] Good advice all round - thanks. We had a quick knock last Saturday just acoustically i.e. no amplified vocals and instruments at a level to hear the vocals. It was actually good and obviously no louder that a TV. Again though, I want to be operating within the law and not worried that I am going to upset anyone. I don't like sneaking around - well, not in my own house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='464835' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:28 AM']So, I concede to upsetting a neigbour and apologise for this but would like to work around the problem and still be able to play without any aggro. Therefore what are reasonable noise levels and times for making the noise so that I could negotiate via the council a way forward rather than just stopping playing at home.[/quote] The onus is now on the complainer to keep a diary of when the disturbances occur. The council will then go round and set up a spl meter in their house and sit and wait for the music to start. They will then write to you, and here's your pportunity to discuss when and how loud is reasonable. You won't get a summons unless you ignore them. This is how my city council does things, anyway. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='464878' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:10 PM']I don't like sneaking around[/quote] Really?? I think it's a classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Since the council have advised the complainant to keep a diary it might be an idea for you to keep a diary too, especially if you think they are complaining about occasions when you haven't been making a noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='spike' post='464892' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:22 PM']Since the council have advised the complainant to keep a diary it might be an idea for you to keep a diary too, especially if you think they are complaining about occasions when you haven't been making a noise.[/quote] Good point well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golchen Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 To be sure of getting the right person you'll have to kill all the neigbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='464873' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:07 PM']I guess that the best option would be to use a rehearsal room?[/quote] plus the one. i'm never comfortable practising at someone's house with a drum kit. ymmv of course, but i think it's unfair to inflict that amount of noise on your neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Golchen' post='464894' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:23 PM']To be sure of getting the right person you'll have to kill all the neigbours.[/quote] Hey! Now you're talking my kind of language! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Mmm.... I hate to take the miserabilist view, but what do you expect? A full band with drummer playing in an non soundproofed building is bloody loud. You might think that your neighbour has acted unreasonably by going behind your back, but what would you have done if they had come to your door and complained about it? Do what everybody else does, either go and butter up your local pub or church hall or pay for a rehearsal room. And while I'm getting myself on the hate list.... Hey, Pentode.... I think you'll find a KT88 it a tetrode Gets coat, never to return..... Edited April 17, 2009 by thepurpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 And while I'm getting myself on the hate list.... Hey, Pentode.... I think you'll find a KT88 it a tetrode Gets coat, never to return..... [/quote] As in Kinkless Tetrode (KT**) Yes, but it's such a nice 'photo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Pentode' post='464950' date='Apr 17 2009, 01:06 PM']And while I'm getting myself on the hate list.... Hey, Pentode.... I think you'll find a KT88 it a tetrode Gets coat, never to return..... As in Kinkless Tetrode (KT**) Yes, but it's such a nice 'photo! [/quote] It is... Tetrodes just aren't cute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Actually, I don't know, this is quite sexy don't you think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='464835' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:28 AM']Just thought I'd float this and see what you think... I practice with the band at my house periodically. Sometimes once a week for a couple of weeks (if we are not gigging) but usually once every 2 or three weeks. We (2 guitars, bass and drums) play in my living room - detached house on busy main road, no neigbours on one side, colleague from work on the other side, vacant house over the road, friends either side of that. Always have windows and doors closed and only use one monitor for vocals so not flat out at all. Usually pitch up at 6 o'clock on a Thursday and jam till no later than 9. We stop for a beer or brew and so it is not constant. Anyway, 2 weeks ago I received a letter from the council informing me that they have received a complaint about loud music from my house. This is unsubstantiated but non the less they were keeping me in the loop. I called them and firstly apologised and asked for my apology to be passed on and invited anybody to come and chat to me about it as I am cool about it and the last thing I want to do is upset anyone. The council worker read the file (sh*t! - I've got a file!) and identified that someone had claimed that I was 'band practicing every week, in my garage, very loudly'. So, I accept that I have clearly aggrevated someone but (at the risk of appearing to be splitting hairs) would deny playing in my garage (did play in it for a couple of months (me and a guitarist) up until 12 months a go) but not since, and we certainly do not play every week. Additionally, they pointed out that at this stage there is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this complaint and have recommended that the complainant keeps a diary of noise. So, I concede to upsetting a neigbour and apologise for this but would like to work around the problem and still be able to play without any aggro. Therefore what are reasonable noise levels and times for making the noise so that I could negotiate via the council a way forward rather than just stopping playing at home. Sorry for the ramble! Any ideas???[/quote] Hi Huggy, OK. I'm the guy from the Council, or I used to be. There's lots of good advice been given so far, well apart from Golchen's (ha ha). As they've said. It's unsubstantiated, so they are (too busy/can't be bothered to investigate) for the time being. That's why they use this diary system. It's a way of weeding out the least intrusive noise complaints. If you're only playing once a week, they'll want at least 3 or 4 occurences before making a site visit to the complainant's house. Anyway, take the complaint seriously and involve all the band. There could be many reasons why people don't knock on your door and speak to you directly. It could be a little old lady who is not going to take on 4 burly men or it could be as "Stylon Pilson's" first para. So classic. If you're going to send out a letter - in the most polite & conciliatory terms possible - do so, but I'd be surprised if you get any replies. However, nothing lost in doing a letter drop. Send a copy of the letter to the council's investigating officer- good PR and he can put it on your dreaded file. The Council is never going to quote noise levels to you and will never directly disclose the identity of the complainant(s). Generally speaking, the times 6 - 9pm are perfectly reasonable, so no problem there, unless the complainant has young children who can't get off to sleep (or so they will claim) or you're interfering with Coronation Street. It's just the noise level or a particular type of noise. Drummers and vocalists are often the worst parts of a band noise. Speak to the author of the letter and try to get some info about the exact nature of the noise that causes the problem to the complainant. "Spike's" point about keeping your own diary is very useful. The complainants may be picking on the wrong target. Also. get the rest of the band to practice while you walk round your house in arc beyond those local neighbours. Then check out the sounds by your neighbours. Make a written note of your findings. Maybe you'll come across another practising band? Let us know how you get on and come back to us. Balcro. Edited April 17, 2009 by Balcro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='464952' date='Apr 17 2009, 01:07 PM']It is... Tetrodes just aren't cute [/quote] So....... Is a Pentode a Kinky Tetrode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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