Practice noise complaints...

[leschirons]

[quote name='casapete' post='465303' date='Apr 17 2009, 04:55 PM']+1 to the above.

I live in a Victorian terraced house, and the lad next door used to rehearse with a full acoustic drum kit every night just when my
girlfriend just got in from work/early evening. I think his parents thought I would be tolerant knowing I was a pro musician,
but as I tried to explain to them it was like coming in from a noisy factory and still hearing it in your home! We could hear every part
of his playing, was just like being in the room with him, no kidding!

Despite many friendly attempts in person to compromise with them over this, I eventually rang my local council who were very helpful - gave me
a basis on which to attempt to get it stopped. After writing a polite letter to the neighbours stating the next step was to involve the council, the drumming
ceased. Unfortunately the whole family have since blanked us, which is really sad but thats the outcome. Think the parents bought the lad an electric kit with headphones - pity they had n't shown this consideration sooner really.

I try to adopt a 'live and let live' policy regarding noise. Occasional birthday party celebrations/house warmings etc are all part of our lives.
Do think though that regularly making neighbours lives a misery however you do it is pretty selfish behaviour, and does cause a lot of trouble.
Like the previous post, I also believe we should all be entitled to a peaceful home environment.

( God-hope this does n't sound like the Daily Mail/Express readers posting on here!!!!)[/quote]

I make you right in all respects but the OP has always stated that he is eager to sort out the problem to the satisfaction of all parties and has displayed nothing but a desire to not annoy neighbours and keep his rehearsing to a reasonable level and time slot.

[pete.young]

One of my friends does this:

mixer
electronic kit, plugged into mixer
keyboards, ditto
bass amp, DI'd into mixer
guitars, also straight into mixer
vocal mike, into mixer (no PA)
Behringer 6 channel headphone amp and 6 sets of cans

Not quite a silent practise, but just the acoustic volume of the vocals as far as the outside world is concerned. Seems to work - they've had no complaints and it would be a stony-hearted council indeed that would put a noise prohibition notice on one bloke singing! Unless it was Bono, of course.

[Paul Cooke]

keep the noise down, you could end up with an ASBO like this couple did...
[url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1171244/Woman-handed-ASBO-loud-sex-sessions-neighbours-complained-police-25-times.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...e-25-times.html[/url]

[quote]The couple’s partially deaf neighbour Margery Ball said she had not had a decent night’s sleep in two years because of the noise made by the couple.

As well as being given an Asbo, Mrs Cartwright was yesterday fined £200 with £300 costs.

She was taken to court after Environmental Health officers placed recording equipment in the flat next door to her house in Concord, Tyne and Wear.

Her neighbour, Rachel O’Connor, pressed a button on the machine every time she was disturbed by noise from next door.[/quote]

[The Funk]

[quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='464835' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:28 AM']Just thought I'd float this and see what you think...

I practice with the band at my house periodically. Sometimes once a week for a couple of weeks (if we are not gigging) but usually once every 2 or three weeks. [...] Always have windows and doors closed and only use one monitor for vocals so not flat out at all. Usually pitch up at 6 o'clock on a Thursday and jam till no later than 9. We stop for a beer or brew and so it is not constant.

[...] what are reasonable noise levels and times for making the noise so that I could negotiate via the council a way forward rather than just stopping playing at home.[/quote]

Don't stop. That all seems reasonable to me. You should keep your own diary of practice times, dates, hours etc. The council isn't going to tell you who the guy is and he's clearly not got the character to deal with you directly.

If it was a direct claim against you in nuisance, I wouldn't be worried. With the council involved, I believe they have powers to confiscate equipment, which is worrying. I'm sure they'd warn you first but it's good that you're keeping in contact with them, being straight and up front about everything.

[Mr. Foxen]

If you can show you weren't making noise when they claim you were (if they want to substantiate the 'weekly' part with diary entries, for example), they can be busted for wasting police time if they take it that far. That would be very pleasing indeed. My parents live in a village with very strange borders and lots of new people coming in and trying to stomp all over established residents rights of way etc. which leads to lots of neighbour disputes, we had a neighbour reported for burning rubbish regularly, and the 'diary' was brought up as evidence, he retorted with his passport showing he'd been out of the country.

[neepheid]

I think it's quite naive to think you can practice a full band setup with impunity in a residential setting. We did it twice, the first time next door must have been out but the second time he came to the door. Never done it since. A band playing "baws-out" makes a fair old racket. That's fine if you live on top of hermit hill, but if not then I don't believe it's feasible.

These days it's rehearsal room or private, low volume stuff at home. I don't understand the prices people are coming away with in this thread for room hire. At the place we go it's a fiver each for 2 hours when the whole band turns up (or 25 if you're solo )

But seriously, (admittedly this is flats, not detached houses) I had to enter into neighbour mediation once because I was putting my washing machine on too late at night. That was resolved amicably with an undertaking on my part not to start a wash later than 8pm. I get on fine with that neighbour now. So if a washing machine can get you in bother, what can a whole band do?

[Prosebass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='464855' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:50 AM']I had this trouble once over dog barking. The prat next door (who was one of the most irritating territorial gits I have ever met - and he was only in his 20s) wrote to the council, they wrote to us saying they were monitoring the situation. We did nothing because we felt the complaint was unreasonable. That was the last we heard of it (2004).

The world is full of what are called 'vexacious litigants', inveterate complainers who have nothing better to do than seek exercise power and force their values onto others. They usually do it anonymously because they lack the social skills to do it to your face. These people are ill-equipped to live in close proximity to others and should go and find a cottage up a mountain somewhere where they can live in silence and without someone invasing their vast acreage of personal space. You have a right to make reasonable noise and it sounds to me that you are being reasonable by stopping at an reasonable time, not playing there every day and not playing too loud. Most councils would agree with me.

I wouldn't lie awake worrying about it.[/quote]

oh dear looks like I am a 'vexacious litigant'
I approached a neighbour regarding his dog barking (all day whilst they were at work) only to get verbal threats and abuse off him.
So I went home and phoned the council who wrote to him and the dog barking stopped , well 90% of it anyway. Who decides what is reasonable ? why if your life is blighted by moronic neighbours and their actions should you move ?
Summer bbq's , parties , dogs barking at postmen , low level band practice, all fine in my book, but there is a flip side to this and not all those who complain (including me) should be classed as inverterate complainers. Noise pollution can really blight some peoples lives if they work shifts, work from home or have young children. I work in my workshop with power bench tools (bandsaw, planer, drill etc) but only do so between 10 and 5 when most people are at work or school.
In your case you should monitor the noise level yourselves and make a judgment on whether you would be annoyed by it.

Mind you if you are playing Jazz I'd complain even if you were quiet......

[JJTee]

[quote name='BeLow' post='466181' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:15 PM']A noise becomes a source of irritation for several reasons, the main factors affecting it are volume, timing, frequency and duration. It is quite possible for irritation to be caused by a relatively low volume noise being repeated endlessly or very long durations, or a noise which is acceptable most of the time but at specific times (occasional dog barks OK, but not at 3 in the morning say). Similarly 2 hours of loud music played regularly once a month becomes a predictable and dreaded event.

For this reason I would imagine the authority can not give a reasonable level.

I once upset a neighbour when I played at low volumes late at night, I can't imagine it was very loud where they were, but I can only assume it was transmitted via the concrete floor and it was a low volume irritation at a time when they were trying to get to sleep.

A personal view is that I can not imagine a regular full volume band rehearsal working well in a residential area, we sometimes rehearse in my detached house and the drummer uses a single practice pad, everyone else turns down to low level.[/quote]

+ 1 to all of the above.

In terms of the Council's powers, they have a duty to serve what is known as an "Abatement Notice" if they judge the noisy activity to be a statutory nuisance and are of the opinion it's likely to recur. When judging whether something is a nuisance, they take into account the factors mentioned above i.e. volume, timing, frequency and duration. The notice is effectively like a court order, and it's a criminal offence to breach the notice i.e. to create a further noise nuisance which is witnessed by the Council, with a prosecution at the local magistrates court the likely outcome (or a formal "caution" may be more likely if you hold your hands up and have a conciliatory attitide) and a fine of up to £5000 (more usually a £200-500 for single breach). This is all under s.79 and 80 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.

They do also have powers to seize any equipment believed to have been the source of the noise nuisance - this usually happens when someone has breached the Abatement Notice, has been told a prosecution is being considered, but just ignores everything and carried on causing a noise nuisance. This usually involves the Council getting a Warrant of Entry from the Magistrates' Court, and turning up on your doorstep with the police and a locksmith. It's up to the Court as to whether you get any of your stuff back, during the prosecution.

However, there's usually a few informal warnings, telephone calls and letters before it gets to the Abatement Notice stage, unless you are behaving like a completely anti-social cretin with a bad attitude, in which case the notice might come sooner rather than later.

[Huggy and the Bears]

[quote name='The Funk' post='465990' date='Apr 18 2009, 11:20 AM']Don't stop. That all seems reasonable to me. You should keep your own diary of practice times, dates, hours etc. The council isn't going to tell you who the guy is and he's clearly not got the character to deal with you directly.

If it was a direct claim against you in nuisance, I wouldn't be worried. With the council involved, I believe they have powers to confiscate equipment, which is worrying. I'm sure they'd warn you first but it's good that you're keeping in contact with them, being straight and up front about everything.[/quote]

Thanks for the advice everyone. A wide range of views as I would expect. Just to put the record straight, when we were playing, we were not at anywhere near stage volume however I've decided to not play at home for the time being. Interstingly I noticed today that a lawn mower down the road was was more audible that the noise coming from my house during our playing - Hey ho!