Graphite necks

[Chris2112]

Surely the tone of the neck in that instance is almost entirely determined by the wood rather than the 0.1mm thick carbon skin wrap? I'm guessing that the stuff that goes on is a bit like what VAG owners wrap their wing mirrors and dash trim with? 

[BigRedX]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I think they were done by Gus for Enfield. Could be wrong…

 

Yes they were. Confirmed to me by Martin Sims.

[Russ]

On 13/08/2022 at 07:56, Kiwi said:

That was a Moses neck from my stash.

 

Carbon wrapped necks don't sound as bright as fully CF necks but they do have the same evenness and consistency.  LIke I said, I think it's a nice compromise especially when the core wood is quite light.

I'd be very interested in finding out how they behave in different temperatures and humidities compared to regular wood necks and full graphite necks. That's the killer app of a graphite neck for me - that they don't move or warp (or, at least, far less than wooden necks) in different climates. 

 

I'm assuming the graphite-wrapped necks might behave somewhere between the two - a bit like having graphite stiffening bars, but on the outside of the neck rather than the inside. 

[itu]

45 minutes ago, Russ said:

I'd be very interested in finding out how they behave in different temperatures and humidities compared to regular wood necks and full graphite necks. That's the killer app of a graphite neck for me - that they don't move or warp (or, at least, far less than wooden necks) in different climates. 

 

I'm assuming the graphite-wrapped necks might behave somewhere between the two - a bit like having graphite stiffening bars, but on the outside of the neck rather than the inside. 

Graphite does not move, no matter the temp or humidity. I have played them everywhere from indoor swimming pools to freezing cold.

 

Graphite wrap may be thin and act like just like tape: looks good, but has no other function. It can also be thick and tough, but at some point there's no need to have any support inside the neck. At least necks of MG Quantum SPi, Status MM and Vigier Passion II are hollow. Truss rod... what truss rod?

 

I play an MG Genesis. The neck is a hybrid. Its sustain is very different from Vigier's. They also sound quite different, but different scale lengths, electronics, pickups...

[Kiwi]

5 hours ago, Russ said:

I'd be very interested in finding out how they behave in different temperatures and humidities compared to regular wood necks and full graphite necks. That's the killer app of a graphite neck for me - that they don't move or warp (or, at least, far less than wooden necks) in different climates. 

 

I'm assuming the graphite-wrapped necks might behave somewhere between the two - a bit like having graphite stiffening bars, but on the outside of the neck rather than the inside. 

It all depends on how they're made and what form of construction is used.  I've had a Moses jazz neck move due to seasonal and ambient temperature changes to a greater degree than a well made wooden neck. The necks made using monocoque construction (hollow) generally tend to be the stiffest if they were made 40 years ago. Vigier, Status and Alembic (c/- Modulus) all made extremely solid necks back then.  But Modulus had issues with their necks in the early to mid eighties (and again in the mid 90's) as did Status (a tiny number in the mid nineties) due to the phenolic fingerboards not being stiff enough.  I wonder if that might be because the necks also weren't over designed any more as makers got more experience with using the material.

 

Monocoque necks (if they're well made) have about three layers lining the mould.  Graphite wrapped necks might have less but any decision will rest with the maker but they'll be stiff enough for sure.  Especially if the fingerboard is nice and strong.   I doubt there will be issues if the wrapped necks have a core made from a soft wood such as cedar, balsa or spruce.

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 15/08/2022 at 20:43, itu said:

At least necks of MG Quantum SPi, Status MM and Vigier Passion II are hollow. Truss rod... what truss rod?

 

My Status Streamline had a truss rod.

I get the feeling that it's easier (not necessarily better!) to build the neck a little less stiff and include a truss rod for adjustability rather than one that a player cannot alter to suit their preference.

 

It may also be a function of the fact that the Streamline is a monocoque. Maybe a 'rod helps relocate the bending forces away from the neck/body (non) joint and towards the middle of the neck to give the necessary relief.

It also potentially allows a less heavily-built neck/body join, which can help give better upper-fret accessibility (?)

 

The Vigier I own doesn't have a truss rod. That's another story altogether.

[bloke_zero]

This popped up on my ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155131599969?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=3ab62b5c30434f839947b32ed9d7be0c&bu=43114069462&ut=RU&exe=102358&ext=240835&osub=-1~1&crd=20220824092215&segname=11021

 

I'd love to get it but MUST NOT. He's a bit vague on condition.

 

Moses graphite neck from a MM

[Kiwi]

Based on my experience with their jazz necks, I'd probably avoid it.  But I wouldn't stop someone else from pulling the trigger.

[Phaedrus01]

I just bought it so hopefully it's good. It was on a bass that was for sale on the forums a while ago. You can find it here

 

I think it got sold to the bass centre then the guy from ebay picked it up.

 

The neck looks to have been drilled for the new musicman 5 bolt neck plate/pocket. Then someone put it on a 79 body that originally had a 3 bolt neckplate. The guy from ebay told me he has a vintage 3 bolt musicman neck he is gonna put back on so now I want to put it on my 6 bolt neckplate body.

 

Ha ha wish they could have settled on one design over the years

[Phaedrus01]

Received the neck today. It's in perfect condition apart from a tiny chip on the heel which may have happened in shipping. I apologise if this has been stated somewhere before but does anyone know anything about the different construction methods? I already have an emerald acoustic bass which is entirely graphite and has that carbon weave that status has everywhere but on the fingerboard itself. I think the neck is hollow and it's incredibly light. The moses looks and feels completely different. As if the whole neck is made of the uniform black phenolic fingerboard material. It is incredibly dense and heavy and feels like glass. They seem like completely different materials?

[Chris2112]

AIUI the 'solid' construction method of Steinberger etc was strong but heavy. Some of the thinner or hollow forms are obviously lighter but also stiffer. Status were, I believe, the pioneer in carbon fibre monocoque design with the Stealth that used a thin wood frame with layers of carbon fibre cloth laid up on top to form the 'skin' prior to curing and finishing. 

 

Basslab took things even further since they use some carbon fibre in their builds but most of the instrument is made of a 'tuned composite material', effectively a resin that allows for even more unusual shapes. 

 

[Kiwi]

17 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

 Status were, I believe, the pioneer in carbon fibre monocoque design

 

Geoff Gould pioneered monocoque design for Alembic in 1976. 

 

17 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

used a thin wood frame with layers of carbon fibre cloth laid up on top to form the 'skin' prior to curing and finishing.

This is a different mode of construction, known as wrapping.  Status used this in the body wings for their Series 2000 and Stealth 1 models.  Their necks were still monocoque.

 

17 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

Basslab took things even further since they use some carbon fibre in their builds but most of the instrument is made of a 'tuned composite material', effectively a resin that allows for even more unusual shapes. 

This was the approach the Status took in their Stealth II model.  They used epoxy foam injected into the hollow space left over after monocoque construction.

[crazycloud]

On 03/09/2022 at 22:24, Kiwi said:

This is a different mode of construction, known as wrapping.  Status used this in the body wings for their Series 2000 and Stealth 1 models.  Their necks were still monocoque.

Are you sure about this? My S2000 appears to be a solid  monocoque and I doubt there is any timber inside it as it is the most resonant bass I have ever held, more so than some of my acoustic guitars. I doubt it would do this with a solid wood core, and the vibrational level is pretty uniform on it everywhere.

On 03/09/2022 at 22:24, Kiwi said:

This was the approach the Status took in their Stealth II model.  They used epoxy foam injected into the hollow space left over after monocoque construction.

 

Interesting, thanks, that's given me something to discuss with a new neighbour who has experience with CF boats.

[LeftyJ]

I got an email a few days ago from KLOS guitars, announcing they're considering selling aftermarket necks. The accompanying picture showed a Strat with their own proprietary headstock shape, which is... less than thrilling. But they included a link to an online questionnaire and one of the questions is about the headstock shape (whether to use their own, or one matching the instrument it's meant for). Might be interesting to those of you considering a neck swap:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScknOTzlKQTuHNZdGlzOQRbTuBYO_bcxowza_ryg1utKejftA/viewform 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by LeftyJ

[EBS_freak]

Bleugh.

[martthebass]

3 hours ago, crazycloud said:

Are you sure about this? My S2000 appears to be a solid  monocoque and I doubt there is any timber inside it as it is the most resonant bass I have ever held, more so than some of my acoustic guitars. I doubt it would do this with a solid wood core, and the vibrational level is pretty uniform on it everywhere.

Interesting, thanks, that's given me something to discuss with a new neighbour who has experience with CF boats.

 

IIRC, when I looked inside my old, now departed Streamline, the inside of the body was a rigid foam material not unlike the sort of stuff used for flower arranging (but suspect it was somewhat different) and the carbon weave was layered up around it - couldn't tell from looking whether it was injected in or it was a former, would have to watch them making one to be sure.  I think the Stealth 2 is similar to this in construction?

 

My CW Signature is carbon weave layered up around an alder core for the body and the neck is the standard foam core I assume.

 

I'm happier that both of these models have truss rod adjustment; both needed a tweak when I first got them to get the action to my liking.  In the case of the Streamline, once set I didn't touch it again in 8 years.  I've only had the CW sig a year so we'll have to see with that one. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by martthebass

[BassBus]

The original S2000s had a wooden core wrapped in carbon fibre. I have one from 1984.

[LeftyJ]

1 hour ago, martthebass said:

My CW Signature is carbon weave layered up around an alder core for the body and the neck is the standard foam core I assume.

I believe the CW only has a front and rear facing glued on? Hence the black tummycut and forearm contour. Would have been extra cool if the facing followed the forearm contour. 

[martthebass]

1 hour ago, LeftyJ said:

I believe the CW only has a front and rear facing glued on? Hence the black tummycut and forearm contour. Would have been extra cool if the facing followed the forearm contour. 

I think you’re probably right, I was going on the wording on the Status site which states that it has a woven graphite ‘shell’ on the front and back.

[LeftyJ]

On 05/09/2022 at 15:58, LeftyJ said:

I got an email a few days ago from KLOS guitars, announcing they're considering selling aftermarket necks. The accompanying picture showed a Strat with their own proprietary headstock shape, which is... less than thrilling. But they included a link to an online questionnaire and one of the questions is about the headstock shape (whether to use their own, or one matching the instrument it's meant for). Might be interesting to those of you considering a neck swap:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScknOTzlKQTuHNZdGlzOQRbTuBYO_bcxowza_ryg1utKejftA/viewform 

 

 

KLOS sent a new mailing out last night, with an update regarding the graphite aftermarket necks which looked promising. They're now offering necks for most 25.5" scale Fender and Squier guitars with a more traditional Fenderesque headstock shape. Prices will be $700, but there's an early bird deal of $400. I wonder if and when bass necks will be available!

 

 

[Sparky Mark]

I ordered a lined fretless for my 1978 Fender Jazz soon after Status announced production of replacement necks. In exchange for using a photo of my bass on the Status website Rob offered to fit the neck for me. It was a beautiful neck that I sold on here a few years ago as I have never been good enough to play fretless, lined or otherwise.

[crazycloud]

Just responded yes to the questionnaire.

[Chris2112]

On 28/09/2022 at 17:20, LeftyJ said:

 

KLOS sent a new mailing out last night, with an update regarding the graphite aftermarket necks which looked promising. They're now offering necks for most 25.5" scale Fender and Squier guitars with a more traditional Fenderesque headstock shape. Prices will be $700, but there's an early bird deal of $400. I wonder if and when bass necks will be available!

 

 

 

They look much better in that configuration.