Whats your recording method

[Nicko]

Just wondering if mine is the norm, or if others use a different approach.

 

Basic bits of the song lodge in my head, or I'll have a verse and no chorus.

Write some lyrics if using a vocal

Lay down a simple drum track (basically select a pre-programmed beat and set a tempo)

I record a rough version of the main theme, guitar* and bass **

I record a rough version of the chorus, guitar and bass, or plug away endlessly until I find one if the song needs it

Put a vocal over the main theme and chorus

Cut and paste the rough versions into a song format

Add the vocals over the rough song, writing more or rewording to fit

Re-record the guitar parts - if I get it bang on on one verse and chorus I might copy and paste it that over to all the verses rather than play the song all the way through.  Sometimes I have to tidy up the transitions and sometimes the rough version is good enough.

Lay the bass down - in the same way - very occasionally I'll play all the way through and put in variations.

Spend a bit more time trying to get the sound I want - always finding it elusive. ***

Edit or re-program drums 

Mix

Seek assurance from Mrs Nicko that the mix is OK, and that the whole thing isn't complete pants.

 

* at this point I get stuck for hours trying to find the right sound for the guitar and to a lesser extent the bass,  Often I settle for something that isn't what I want because I cant get the sound I think I want.

** sometimes I lay down a bass idea with a guitar rather than a bass especially if a melody idea ends up sounding better as bass.

*** by the time I get to this the song has taken over my brain like the worst earworm ever and I can think of little else.  I convince myself it's actually good even if it isn't.

 

[PaulWarning]

8 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Just wondering if mine is the norm, or if others use a different approach.

 

Basic bits of the song lodge in my head, or I'll have a verse and no chorus.

Write some lyrics if using a vocal

Lay down a simple drum track (basically select a pre-programmed beat and set a tempo)

I record a rough version of the main theme, guitar* and bass **

I record a rough version of the chorus, guitar and bass, or plug away endlessly until I find one if the song needs it

Put a vocal over the main theme and chorus

Cut and paste the rough versions into a song format

Add the vocals over the rough song, writing more or rewording to fit

Re-record the guitar parts - if I get it bang on on one verse and chorus I might copy and paste it that over to all the verses rather than play the song all the way through.  Sometimes I have to tidy up the transitions and sometimes the rough version is good enough.

Lay the bass down - in the same way - very occasionally I'll play all the way through and put in variations.

Spend a bit more time trying to get the sound I want - always finding it elusive. ***

Edit or re-program drums 

Mix

Seek assurance from Mrs Nicko that the mix is OK, and that the whole thing isn't complete pants.

 

* at this point I get stuck for hours trying to find the right sound for the guitar and to a lesser extent the bass,  Often I settle for something that isn't what I want because I cant get the sound I think I want.

** sometimes I lay down a bass idea with a guitar rather than a bass especially if a melody idea ends up sounding better as bass.

*** by the time I get to this the song has taken over my brain like the worst earworm ever and I can think of little else.  I convince myself it's actually good even if it isn't.

 

I usually write the song and lyrics (usually start off with a rough lyric) on acoustic guitar, then sort of follow what you do using audacity.

And yes, by the time you've finished you've lost all sense of perspective and you think you've written a masterpiece, err, no you haven't 🤕

[Dad3353]

I don't (read 'can't, don't know how to'...) write 'songs as such; it's more 'composing', in which I 'see' (hear, feel...) a structure of sorts, typically with a beginning, a middle (sometimes several...) and an end. Often enough, there seems to be some kind of 'echo', or 'rappel' of the beginning in or near the end. I don't think in terms of 'beats' (disclaimer : I'm a drummer...), but rather tempo (long, languishing, increasing in urgency... that sort of thing...), and duration. Some sections have to be necessarilly short, others may extend, but not so long as to tire the ear or lose the plot (if ever plot there was...).
The instrumentation comes at quite a late stage, really. 'Modern', with guitar, bass and whatever..? Classical orchestral, with a particular penchant for cellos and woodwind..? More 'roots', with primitive flutes and/or tam-tams..? On rare (very rare...) occasions, a synth-style 'futuristic' sound may force itself between my cloth ears. I have a selection of pianos, one of which is extremely lightweight, with which I often try out melodies, chords, arpeggios etc, only to ditch that sound for the 'real deal' once it's been honed a little. Of late, my physical ability and aptitude for actually playing stuff has dimished somewhat (t'was never virtuose, to be fair...), so I take to sewing together samples, gleaned from many sources, including my own stuff played years ago. Tempo matching/stretching, pitch adjustment, 'shoe-horning', sprinkled with a very hefty dose of serendipity, whereby 'by accident' things sound good (a relative term, that...) all combine with the above to create a new piece. I often strip things out, towards the end, as I have a tendency to clutter, and muddy the waters; getting back to basics, purifying, is the last stage, really. The whole 'process' goes at a steady, frenetic pace until 'finished', as I can't really relax whilst it's all going off in my skull. Most are a 24-hour or so, non-stop stint, then I can sleep.
Once released into the wild, it's rare that I go back to anything to fiddle with it; with many of my older pieces, I have no idea myself how or why I came up with such ideas. A bit like Topsy : 'it just grew'. Method..? Pah..! Can't be doin' with such... 

[BigRedX]

For me writing and recording are two entirely different processes.

 

For The Terrortones I never used to record anything when I was writing. I'd come up with bass and guitar parts for the songs and then play them to Mr Venom. The ones he liked would have have lyrics put to them and he'd come up with a basic drum idea (he was also a drummer), and we'd play these rough ideas to the rest of the band who would put their own input into the basic guitar and drum parts and we would rehearse the song from there.

 

When it was time to record, we'd book a studio and perform the songs live. Occasionally we'd add some extra parts if the song required them, and sometimes Mr Venom would re-do the vocals and/or the Theremin parts, but the the whole recording was essentially the first live take we were happy with.

 

With Hurtsfall even though there are a lot of programmed parts the process (for me is similar). I won't start programming anything until I'm happy with the basic structure of the song as played on the Bass VI. The I'll put down a very rough drum part just to get a feel for the the rhythms I want to use, normally just basic 2-4 bar patterns for verse, chorus, middle and intro. That will be presented to the rest of the band, and if they like it, we'll work on turning these ideas into a proper song. I never like to get too bogged down in specifics before this point, as the order and number of times each part repeats will depend entirely on the vocals/lyrics. Once we're happy with the song structure, we'll do a live rehearsal recording which I'll use as a basis for getting proper drum part programmed using the vocals as a guide for the dynamics. Also in conjunction with our synth player we'll add any extra sequencer-style synth parts that won't be played live. We'll use this as our backing and gig it, tweaking the arrangement over the next weeks/months. 

 

When it's time to make a proper recording of the song, I'll start with the programmed drums and synths and at home myself and the synth payer will add our parts. At this stage we're not too worried about the exact sounds, just so long as everything is in time and in tune. We'll then book some studio time for the vocals (through experience, we've come to the conclusion that you can't beat recording vocals in a decent studio with a good engineer and equipment, after all they are the most important part of any song). Once the proper vocals are down I'll have a final look at the drum and sequencer parts to make sure they still fit correctly around the singing, before recording all the final Bass VI "bass" and "guitar" parts. Our synth player will add the "live" synth plus some additional noises and we'll do the best mix we can, before sending the stems to our "producer" who'll take what we have done and make it sound even better.

Edited August 12, 2022 by BigRedX

[Nicko]

1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

And yes, by the time you've finished you've lost all sense of perspective and you think you've written a masterpiece, err, no you haven't 🤕

Glad to hear it's not just me.

[Nicko]

35 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Most are a 24-hour or so, non-stop stint, then I can sleep.

I always wondered how your entries to the monthly comp were posted so quickly - now I know.

[Nicko]

21 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

For me writing and recording are two entirely different processes

I think writing and recording as a band would be entirely different for me too.  Firstly I'd expect the other musicians to be vastly superior in ability and technique* to me so once I'd got a rough idea it wouldn't make sense to restrict the various parts to what I can do rather than what they could do.

 

The only time I've recorded as a band in a studio we basically did it live because none of us were experienced in playing the songs in isolation - I'd have missed the changes without having the other members doing what they normally did.

 

*I'm competent at playing guitar - no more - and use a few techniques that others might find unusual.

[upside downer]

My process for the monthly Composition Challenge runs as follows:

 

• Stare at picture for somewhere between five and ten days.
• Hear something, somewhere, get inspired (waddaya mean, "pilfer"?)
• Grab nearest stringed instrument and thrash out basic chord sequence into phone voice recorder. If no strings to hand, hum tune into phone voice recorder.
• Hum something more recognisable into phone than the out of tune farrago that was the first attempt.
• Think about lyrics.
• Pick up stringed instrument. Spend hours and hours and days and days fleshing out, re-writing, moving bits about, re-writing, moving bits back, re-re-writing, adding something else and taking out that bit that never really fitted in the first place.
• Find drums from Looperman or program own effort using Hydrogen open source drum machine. Or, record bashing machines at work, pots and pans, tables, chairs and tin cans and spend far too long trying to make that sound half decent.
• Think about lyrics.
• Once drums down, usually rhythm guitar next instrument, but not before spending an absolute age mucking about with pedals. Then bass with, sometimes, keyboard to follow.
• Hey, this one will sound great with a brief interlude of Syrian oud! Reach for Syrian oud. No, still can't play it. Put Syrian oud back on stand.
• Think about lyrics.
• Guitar solo? No problem! Shouldn't take more than...two days. Argh!
• Think about lyrics.
• Am I happy with that solo? Answer is you'll never be happy with that solo. Like Elsa, let it go.
• Then, either a) finally write lyrics or b) sod lyrics, add extra instrument (saz, bouzouki etc) instead.
• If a), 'sing' (HA!) and then fail miserably to get the vocal to sit in what I suppose must be called 'the mix', although this mixing business remains elusive thanks to my hamfisted, lo-fi approach to all of this.
• Post final effort into monthly Basschat Challenge with little time left until deadline for entries. Rest for a week until voting is finished then repeat process.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Nicko]

19 minutes ago, upside downer said:

My process for the monthly Composition Challenge runs as follows:

 

• Stare at picture for somewhere between five and ten days.
• Hear something, somewhere, get inspired (waddaya mean, "pilfer"?)
• Grab nearest stringed instrument and thrash out basic chord sequence into phone voice recorder. If no strings to hand, hum tune into phone voice recorder.
• Hum something more recognisable into phone than the out of tune farrago that was the first attempt.
• Think about lyrics.
• Pick up stringed instrument. Spend hours and hours and days and days fleshing out, re-writing, moving bits about, re-writing, moving bits back, re-re-writing, adding something else and taking out that bit that never really fitted in the first place.
• Find drums from Looperman or program own effort using Hydrogen open source drum machine. Or, record bashing machines at work, pots and pans, tables, chairs and tin cans and spend far too long trying to make that sound half decent.
• Think about lyrics.
• Once drums down, usually rhythm guitar next instrument, but not before spending an absolute age mucking about with pedals. Then bass with, sometimes, keyboard to follow.
• Hey, this one will sound great with a brief interlude of Syrian oud! Reach for Syrian oud. No, still can't play it. Put Syrian oud back on stand.
• Think about lyrics.
• Guitar solo? No problem! Shouldn't take more than...two days. Argh!
• Think about lyrics.
• Am I happy with that solo? Answer is you'll never be happy with that solo. Like Elsa, let it go.
• Then, either a) finally write lyrics or b) sod lyrics, add extra instrument (saz, bouzouki etc) instead.
• If a), 'sing' (HA!) and then fail miserably to get the vocal to sit in what I suppose must be called 'the mix', although this mixing business remains elusive thanks to my hamfisted, lo-fi approach to all of this.
• Post final effort into monthly Basschat Challenge with little time left until deadline for entries. Rest for a week until voting is finished then repeat process.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way.

I can't wait for the oud, saz and bazouki to make an appearance - presumably something written (or hummed) in phrygian.

[BigRedX]

7 hours ago, Nicko said:

I think writing and recording as a band would be entirely different for me too.  Firstly I'd expect the other musicians to be vastly superior in ability and technique* to me so once I'd got a rough idea it wouldn't make sense to restrict the various parts to what I can do rather than what they could do.

 

The only time I've recorded as a band in a studio we basically did it live because none of us were experienced in playing the songs in isolation - I'd have missed the changes without having the other members doing what they normally did.

 

*I'm competent at playing guitar - no more - and use a few techniques that others might find unusual.

 

For me the recording process is all about making a finished product for public consumption whether that be vinyl, compact cassette, CD, or digital download/streaming, and therefore it always about taking completed songs rather than composing and recording at the same time. It makes no difference if it's a band or just me on my own, almost always I will have the vast majority of the composition worked out and rehearsed before anything is committed to tape or DAW. Recording can either be live (possibly with overdubs afterwards) or built up instrument by instrument - whatever works best for the song and the musicians involved in making the recording.

 

About the only time I have composed and recorded at the same time for one of the early composition challenges on here where I created all my sounds by using Audacity to open the inspiration image as waveforms and then edit them into chunks I could use to build up the composition. In this case because my musical palette was entirely subject to what Audacity made of turning a JPEG into a WAV, it had to be done this way. Although technically there was no recording involved in the process other than the final stereo bounce of the "in the box" arrangement of the audio files.

Edited August 12, 2022 by BigRedX

[JapanAxe]

I’m usually recording covers of intros or solos as a way to demonstrate my playing ability. My DAW of choice is Reaper.

 

I usually start with some form of drum track filched from the Internet. If it’s a MIDI track then I will often edit it to introduce some dynamics! I create a tempo map and align the drum track with it.

 

I create the guitar and bass sounds outside the box using mainly analog kit - I rarely use amp sim or fx plug-ins. Then I record the parts. For reverb I either record a separate wet track from one of my three outboard spring reverbs, or create a send and return.

 

Any tricky keys parts are obtained from MIDI files, otherwise I play them myself.

 

I have no mastering software, I just do a mix that I think sounds ok and render it to a 192kbps mp3 for uploading to SoundCloud.

 

I don’t recommend you follow this procedure btw, it just works for me!

[Doctor J]

I usually have the vocal idea in my head or, if it's a riff, I'll record it on the phone. I counted recently, I have about 70 songs in various incomplete stages, so take this method with a very large pinch of salt. I record into protools and, after a few years of programming drums, have gone back to learning to play and record drums if I think the music should have the sound of "real" drums. Harder, but more satisfying, I think. Guitars and basses tend to be recorded via an Avid Eleven. It's not the best bit of kit but I've usually gotten what I need out of it. I've an open mind towards getting something better should a nicely priced alternative appear. Anyway, It's generally like this...

 

• Figure out tempo(s)
• Work out song structure to click and record a guide track really emphasising quarter notes (I tend to listen to bass, so I lose focus on a high pitched click like a cowbell or whatever), the bass or rhythm guitar becomes the click track.
• Figure out what the drums should do, see if I can actually play that and try to play it well enough over a few takes to be able to edit together a decent track
• Once I'm happy with the drums, bass(es) usually comes next
• Rhythm tracks next, guitars, keys etc. Once I've got the foundation of  the song together, I start adding the fluff
• Lead guitars, solos, effects, fluff, etc next
• Vocals, if there are any, usually come last

 

I tend to work towards a mix as I go. Everything gets tweaked along the way to what I think the end result should sound like. I tend to gate the kit, just to leave more sonic space for other instruments. I've a drum kit in a converted bedroom with my recording setup and other instruments, bring recorded by Behringer and Thomann gear. I don't have the luxury of Studio 1 in Abbey Road to record in. After I do some work, I usually bounce down a mix to listen in the car, or wherever I'm out and about, just to hear how things are going and to make mental notes for mix tweaks. I've recently been learning how to use delay more effectively and am trying to be braver and more savvy with reverb. I'm a late convert to bussing groups of instruments into a group fader, ie drums, basses, rhythm guitars, lead guitars, etc. Once everything is recorded and edited, if required, I get a final mix done and master it.

 

Bad habits from this approach... I just learn the track to play it well enough to record. I miss the fine-tuning you'd do with structure or lines in a rehearsal room with other players. I've often found myself thinking I'd have played a slightly different drum track when I've eventually gotten to a final mix, having heard everything else at that point 😂

 

[BigRedX]

10 hours ago, Doctor J said:

Bad habits from this approach... I just learn the track to play it well enough to record. I miss the fine-tuning you'd do with structure or lines in a rehearsal room with other players. I've often found myself thinking I'd have played a slightly different drum track when I've eventually gotten to a final mix, having heard everything else at that point 😂

 

Not a criticism but an observation, and something that I have also been guilty of, is that there appears to be a certain reluctance to go back an redo parts that maybe we have spent a long time originally getting "right" early on in the recording/composition process, when it becomes obvious once other instruments (and especially vocals) have been added, are no longer as appropriate as they could be.

 

I can understand if we were still recording to 4- or 8-track tape, when redoing something put down early in the process might mean starting from scratch as it has already been bounced down to free up tracks, but on a DAW with unlimited tracks and takes, there is nothing but our own inertia stopping us from going back and improving parts laid down at the beginning of the process, and since it is also possible to keep the original part, we can always revert if out new idea doesn't work out as well as we hoped.

 

This is why, since I've had  the facility, when I upgraded from 8-track tape to Logic Audio in the late 90s, I always revisit all the parts I have written once the final vocals have been laid down - usually to simplify what they do under the singing. IMO both the song and the recording always benefits from this approach.

[Dad3353]

This 👆 is wisdom, but the downside is the risk of attempting to gild pure gold, and paint the lily. Better can become the enemy of Good, unless one is disciplined enough to know when enough is enough. Just sayin'. 

[carlitos71]

15 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

For me the recording process is all about making a finished product for public consumption whether that be vinyl, compact cassette, CD, or digital download/streaming, and therefore it always about taking completed songs rather than composing and recording at the same time. It makes no difference if it's a band or just me on my own, almost always I will have the vast majority of the composition worked out and rehearsed before anything is committed to tape or DAW. Recording can either be live (possibly with overdubs afterwards) or built up instrument by instrument - whatever works best for the song and the musicians involved in making the recording.

 

About the only time I have composed and recorded at the same time for one of the early composition challenges on here where I created all my sounds by using Audacity to open the inspiration image as waveforms and then edit them into chunks I could use to build up the composition. In this case because my musical palette was entirely subject to what Audacity made of turning a JPEG into a WAV, it had to be done this way. Although technically there was no recording involved in the process other than the final stereo bounce of the "in the box" arrangement of the audio files.

Interesting!

how did you turn image into WAV?

[PaulWarning]

14 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

This 👆 is wisdom, but the downside is the risk of attempting to gild pure gold, and paint the lily. Better can become the enemy of Good, unless one is disciplined enough to know when enough is enough. Just sayin'. 

yep, you can keep tinkering for ever, sometimes the first few takes are the best, I remember reading John Lennon saying to George Martin that he could have improved all the Beatles tracks, "no you couldn't John" or something like that was George's reply, although some on here would agree with Lennon 😊

[BigRedX]

8 minutes ago, carlitos71 said:

Interesting!

how did you turn image into WAV?

 

Using Audacity. It has the facility to import any file as if it was audio. There are various different settings for how in interprets the data in the import menu, and I simply worked my way through all of them saving the results that produced more than just random noise. Then I imported these into Logic, edited them down to the sounds I wanted to keep - some were "sequences" some were simply single notes and assembled them into this:

 

 

[lurksalot]

On 12/08/2022 at 09:33, Nicko said:

Just wondering if mine is the norm, or if others use a different approach.

 

Basic bits of the song lodge in my head, or I'll have a verse and no chorus.

Write some lyrics if using a vocal

Lay down a simple drum track (basically select a pre-programmed beat and set a tempo)

I record a rough version of the main theme, guitar* and bass **

I record a rough version of the chorus, guitar and bass, or plug away endlessly until I find one if the song needs it

Put a vocal over the main theme and chorus

Cut and paste the rough versions into a song format

Add the vocals over the rough song, writing more or rewording to fit

Re-record the guitar parts - if I get it bang on on one verse and chorus I might copy and paste it that over to all the verses rather than play the song all the way through.  Sometimes I have to tidy up the transitions and sometimes the rough version is good enough.

Lay the bass down - in the same way - very occasionally I'll play all the way through and put in variations.

Spend a bit more time trying to get the sound I want - always finding it elusive. ***

Edit or re-program drums 

Mix

Seek assurance from Mrs Nicko that the mix is OK, and that the whole thing isn't complete pants.

 

* at this point I get stuck for hours trying to find the right sound for the guitar and to a lesser extent the bass,  Often I settle for something that isn't what I want because I cant get the sound I think I want.

** sometimes I lay down a bass idea with a guitar rather than a bass especially if a melody idea ends up sounding better as bass.

*** by the time I get to this the song has taken over my brain like the worst earworm ever and I can think of little else.  I convince myself it's actually good even if it isn't.

 

Pretty much exactly the same, but I may have different starting points if something jumps out.

if I am really stuck , I have a digital piano that plays itself with different styles etc and I can start knocking tunes up on it quite quickly just using one finger to tell it what chord to play !

 

then a week of singing lessons to get the vocal just right 😁

[Nicko]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

Not a criticism but an observation, and something that I have also been guilty of, is that there appears to be a certain reluctance to go back an redo parts that maybe we have spent a long time originally getting "right" early on in the recording/composition process, when it becomes obvious once other instruments (and especially vocals) have been added, are no longer as appropriate as they could be.

 

I can understand if we were still recording to 4- or 8-track tape, when redoing something put down early in the process might mean starting from scratch as it has already been bounced down to free up tracks, but on a DAW with unlimited tracks and takes, there is nothing but our own inertia stopping us from going back and improving parts laid down at the beginning of the process, and since it is also possible to keep the original part, we can always revert if out new idea doesn't work out as well as we hoped.

 

This is why, since I've had  the facility, when I upgraded from 8-track tape to Logic Audio in the late 90s, I always revisit all the parts I have written once the final vocals have been laid down - usually to simplify what they do under the singing. IMO both the song and the recording always benefits from this approach.

If I was doing stuff for anything other than a bit of fun I'd agree, but there is a limit to how many versions of the instrumentation I can lay down, and how much time I can spend polishing the monthly turd.  If I carried on until I thought it was the best it could ever be I'd never actually end up doing the final audio mixdown.

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Nicko said:

If I was doing stuff for anything other than a bit of fun I'd agree, but there is a limit to how many versions of the instrumentation I can lay down, and how much time I can spend polishing the monthly turd.  If I carried on until I thought it was the best it could ever be I'd never actually end up doing the final audio mixdown.

 

I supposed that's the difference. I don't really record just for "fun". My recording are all done with the aim of putting them out in some format for the general public to "enjoy".

 

To a certain degree, I don't find the recording process particularly enjoyable, because it makes me over-analyse my playing/performance and I become very aware of all it's shortcomings.

 

This is why I have discovered that having my own proper home studio was (for me) not a good idea, because there was always the opportunity for me to fiddle a bit more with the arrangement or mix of a track because I or another member of the band thought it could be improved. 

 

I've mentioned this before in other threads about recording, but I think it bears repeating. Right from my first band my musical output has very much been recording first and foremost and performing live a distant second. Because of this, in the 90s when home studios (i.e.something more than a 4-track portastudio in the corner of the room) became not only affordable but also capable of producing quality results, I threw myself whole-heartedly into the process, spending 10s of thousands of pounds on equipment and a room the house it all in. Unfortunately what I ended up learning was that I was simply not a good enough engineer to do all that equipment justice. My band of the time spent a year working on our first EP (although some of that was due to the fact that our original singer left just before the final mixes were complete and we spent another couple of months recording new vocals with her replacement). We then spent 4 years working on the album and follow-up single, and then end result was 4 "finished" songs that I have never been 100% happy with production/mix -wise and another 6  in various stages of incompletion, before the band split. By that time one of the completed songs was already out of date from a lyrical subject matter PoV. In retrospect the money would have been much better spent hiring a really good studio along with an engineer and proper producer who were sympathetic to the musical style of the band. That way I'd have a great sounding album's with of recordings and probably enough money left over to not only pay for the CD production but some effective promotion too.

 

My inability as an engineer was hammered home, when I subsequently joined The Terrortones, who having acoustic drums couldn't record in my studio as I had neither the environment nor microphones to do it. Therefore we booked a weekend at a decent local studio where the engineer got a much better sound than I could, in a fraction of the time I would have spent and with equipment that was technically less good than my own studio. I ended up selling all my studio equipment (most for a massive loss), and these days I have just enough to do drum programming for Hurtsfall and to record my bass parts.

 

 

[Dad3353]

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dad3353

[WinterMute]

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

I supposed that's the difference. I don't really record just for "fun". My recording are all done with the aim of putting them out in some format for the general public to "enjoy".

 

To a certain degree, I don't find the recording process particularly enjoyable, because it makes me over-analyse my playing/performance and I become very aware of all it's shortcomings.

 

This is why I have discovered that having my own proper home studio was (for me) not a good idea, because there was always the opportunity for me to fiddle a bit more with the arrangement or mix of a track because I or another member of the band thought it could be improved. 

 

I've mentioned this before in other threads about recording, but I think it bears repeating. Right from my first band my musical output has very much been recording first and foremost and performing live a distant second. Because of this, in the 90s when home studios (i.e.something more than a 4-track portastudio in the corner of the room) became not only affordable but also capable of producing quality results, I threw myself whole-heartedly into the process, spending 10s of thousands of pounds on equipment and a room the house it all in. Unfortunately what I ended up learning was that I was simply not a good enough engineer to do all that equipment justice. My band of the time spent a year working on our first EP (although some of that was due to the fact that our original singer left just before the final mixes were complete and we spent another couple of months recording new vocals with her replacement). We then spent 4 years working on the album and follow-up single, and then end result was 4 "finished" songs that I have never been 100% happy with production/mix -wise and another 6  in various stages of incompletion, before the band split. By that time one of the completed songs was already out of date from a lyrical subject matter PoV. In retrospect the money would have been much better spent hiring a really good studio along with an engineer and proper producer who were sympathetic to the musical style of the band. That way I'd have a great sounding album's with of recordings and probably enough money left over to not only pay for the CD production but some effective promotion too.

 

My inability as an engineer was hammered home, when I subsequently joined The Terrortones, who having acoustic drums couldn't record in my studio as I had neither the environment nor microphones to do it. Therefore we booked a weekend at a decent local studio where the engineer got a much better sound than I could, in a fraction of the time I would have spent and with equipment that was technically less good than my own studio. I ended up selling all my studio equipment (most for a massive loss), and these days I have just enough to do drum programming for Hurtsfall and to record my bass parts.

 

 

I think it's very interesting how little kit you need for a pro setup these days, that's the outcome of technology, but as you say, you do need the chops to do it. 

 

I've been a pro engineer for many years and the results I get out of my little man-cave studio are as good as anything I used to get from pro studios except for the drum sounds, because, like you I don't have the space to record acoustic drums. Decent drum programming is ok for some genres, but a properly recorded skin-smacker still sound the dogs on rock and the like. 

 

I can record, programme, edit and mix to pro standards in a system that is a fraction of the cost of a major console and multi-track set up. 

 

Songwriting becomes easier too, my guitarist writes in Logic, chucks it into the cloud, I arrange his work and add bass and synth parts, throw it back, he sods around with it and back and forth we go till we have something we're happy with, then I'll string some vaguely coherent words together and chuck those on. We'll use the Drummer plug-in in Logic generally, or a loop for drums.

 

Then we'll get our drummer into a rehearsal room for a few days, and see what his input does to arrangement, groove, tempo etc, often his input will result in rewrites, which is a good point to assess where a song is. Once we have a version of the backing track we're all happy with, I'll extract guitar, bass and keys to stems, and we'll head up to Monkey Puzzle for a few days to lay drum tracks into Protools. I'll bring the resultant tracks back and we'll track guitars, bass and vocals, re-programme the synth parts and run a final edit/re-arrangement of the songs with the live drum parts.

 

That then gets cleaned up and prepped for mix, which I'll do over the course of many days as it's all essentially in the box and has 100% recall.

 

This process keeps the input of all 3 musicians, allows for variation in performance and the ability to track to live drums for feel and groove (I have extracted groove templates from live drums to lock loops down many times, which works very well), and results in songs that retain feel and spontaneity whilst allowing for the raft of technique us engineers love so much.

 

Sure, I've put money into the studio, but no more than many people put into serious hobbies, and a lot less than some, and the results are excellent, but I've 30 years of experience behind me that ensures I get those results.

 

No DAW or plug-in or synth is going to give you those results without the skills sadly.

Edited August 13, 2022 by WinterMute
typos

[BigRedX]

For me the most important items in a studio these days are suitable acoustic environments to record those instruments that require them, and a good producer and engineer to coax and capture the performances out of the musicians. No amount of hardware can replicate these.

 

In the early days of home recording I was able to tell myself that my recordings would be better if I had more professional equipment in my studio. Now that everyone can have a fantastic studio in their computer I can't hide behind these delusions anymore.

[Nail Soup]

Great thread!

 

I only write and record solo nowadays. My recent bands have been covers. Otherwise it might be different.

 

I mainly go the songwriter route... write the song with about half the full lyrics on guitar, before moving onto recording.

 

• Start with a rough drum beat
• add a guitar track which includes all the elements of the song.
• Add bass. 
• Add guide vocal
• Chop it up into a full song arrangements - like intro verse chorus verse and so on.
• Then replace all of played instruments with 'live' takes. I might 'comp' a few tales together or swap out a mistake.
• Do the proper drums
• Do the final vocals.
• Add solos and extra bits.
• Then the hardest part - mixing and adding EQ, reverb etc.

With guitar effects I used to just paly the line and add effects after. Now I am trying to move towards setting up the effect first and letting that influence the lines played.

 

 

[SH73]

Most my songs are written on basis of coincidence. I am unable to sit down and "write/compose" a song , not even for a monthly BC challenge inspired by a pic. It's all random for me, the idea just appears. It can start with a drum beat, chorus , solo or bass line etc. Then I either work around it or match the rest like a puzzle. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and hum a tune and record it in my phone. Other times it's a a pure randomness/ coincidence, for example I am tuning a guitar/bass, finding a sound on my keyboards and there it is ,idea just pops up. Lyrics, often don't make sense, just trying to rhyme them Ab ab abcd abcd etc. It's all about how I feel with music and lyrics....