Help for a newbie

[Sambrook]

Just wondering where to look for my first double bass. A cheap one, to test the waters. Saw a battered old school one on Reverb, but the seller withdrew it. 

I'm fairly sure I'll continue with it, as it's the sound I'm always aiming for in my fretlesses, and a basic, well used example would let me get going with a clear conscience!

Looking on here, eBay, Reverb and Gumtree. Anything I've missed?

 

Cheers, guys.

[Old Horse Murphy]

Facebook Marketplace is often well populated with DB's for sale

[Sambrook]

Thanks. Don't know why, but FB has never been on my radar. Will check them out.

Cheers.

[TheRev]

There's a Boosey & Hawked Czech bass for £500 in the Basschat classifieds - thats about as cheap as you can get gor a decent beginner bass.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Unlike electric bass, double basses don't really have an equivalent of good budget ranges like Squier, and upgrading isn't quite as straightforward.

 

Bear in mind that strings are super important, and they are expensive, as is setup work(which is not really DIY territory) - this investment works on a different timescale to electric bass, as a set of spirocores and a setup might cost £400, but the spiros will last many years.

 

My advice would be to look at a realistic budget of £500-£1000 and buy an older well maintained ply or hybrid in good playable condition that will be enjoyable to play and hold it's value - if you spend 2-300 on one of the cheap chinese bass shaped objects you might find that it implodes, or would end up costing more to get in a playable condition than buying a decent DB in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by SubsonicSimpleton
spelling

[Sambrook]

Thanks, that's sound advice. I know that to be true in many other areas of life.

What, then, do you think of something like this?-

https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_111e_vn_3_4_double_bass.htm

 

£600 shipped, set up and bow included...

 

 

[knirirr]

A thought occurred to me - have you considered rental? For example: https://www.bassbags.co.uk/double-bass-hire-rental/
This is the route I'd have taken if it were not for the chance discovery of an instrument for sale locally I could borrow for a weekend before purchase (there's a similar Stentor for sale here for £900).
Some places allow the rental payments to count against purchase.
There is probably a 3-month minimum rental period.
 

[Sambrook]

Another avenue I hadn't thought of!

That's good food for thought, thanks very much.

[TheRev]

4 hours ago, Sambrook said:

Thanks, that's sound advice. I know that to be true in many other areas of life.

What, then, do you think of something like this?-

https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_111e_vn_3_4_double_bass.htm

 

£600 shipped, set up and bow included...

 

 

To be honest, for £600 you would probably get a much better bass if you bought used. The Thomann 111 basses are Chinese laminated basses which could well be totally fine...(I've not played one, but have played cheap Chinese basses - not good...) but if you buy a used European laminate that's survived the last 10-20 years, then you definitely know you've got a bass that isn't going to fall apart after a year of gigging.

 

Having said that, the old Thomann 2 basses were Czech (Strunal) made and very decent, so if they've applied the same quality control to their Chinese made basses, then it could be totally fine and a future classic working bass....

 

40 years ago, Strunal basses were the cheap 'Chinese' basses of the time. Many of them are still around and now considered decent gigging basses. Maybe the Thomann 111 basses will be like those, you'll only know if you buy one!

 

[TheRev]

4 hours ago, Sambrook said:

Thanks, that's sound advice. I know that to be true in many other areas of life.

What, then, do you think of something like this?-

https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_111e_vn_3_4_double_bass.htm

 

£600 shipped, set up and bow included...

 

 

To be honest, for £600 you would probably get a much better bass if you bought used. The Thomann 111 basses are Chinese laminated basses which could well be totally fine...(I've not played one, but have played cheap Chinese basses - not good...) but if you buy a used European laminate that's survived the last 10-20 years, then you definitely know you've got a bass that isn't going to fall apart after a year of gigging.

 

Having said that, the old Thomann 2 basses were Czech (Strunal) made and very decent, so if they've applied the same quality control to their Chinese made basses, then it could be totally fine and a future classic working bass....

 

40 years ago, Strunal basses were the cheap 'Chinese' basses of the time. Many of them are still around and now considered decent gigging basses. Maybe the Thomann 111 basses will be like those, you'll only know if you buy one!

 

[Geek99]

Slight thread derail (for which apologies) how do you know where the notes are, every single time, except maybe via some feature of the grain? 

[TheRev]

1 minute ago, Geek99 said:

Slight thread derail (for which apologies) how do you know where the notes are, every single time, except maybe via some feature of the grain? 

Educated guess 😉

[Geek99]

17 minutes ago, TheRev said:

Educated guess 😉

You’re not filling me with confidence, hope and enthusiasm 

[TheRev]

6 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

You’re not filling me with confidence, hope and enthusiasm 

Ok. Ear training and muscle memory. You listen and learn where the notes are.

Or you can paint little dots on the side if the fingerboard.

That better?

[Downunderwonder]

58 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

Slight thread derail (for which apologies) how do you know where the notes are, every single time, except maybe via some feature of the grain? 

Muscle memory plus ears.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Worth actively asking around local orchestras and strings luthiers and any local DB pros/tutors - there might be a DB gathering dust that is available but not actively being advertised for sale.

[Bloopdad1]

Don't forget once you have your instrument, contact a local teacher and get yourself some basic posture and technique lessons. 

Just a few to set you on the straight and narrow. It may save you serious pain/muscle strains and avoid some common bad habits. 

Oh, and don't think like a bass guitarist... Its a TOTALLY different beast. 

Most importantly, have fun! 

[Sambrook]

Thank you everyone, your input is much appreciated. 

[Drax]

On 17/08/2022 at 15:17, Sambrook said:

Thanks, that's sound advice. I know that to be true in many other areas of life.

What, then, do you think of something like this?-

https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_111e_vn_3_4_double_bass.htm

 

£600 shipped, set up and bow included...

 

 

 

Definitely avoid. You'd need to spend close to same again replacing strings and getting it properly set up.

[Sambrook]

6 hours ago, Bloopdad1 said:

Oh, and don't think like a bass guitarist... Its a TOTALLY different beast

Interesting. Could you expand on that, please?

[SubsonicSimpleton]

33 minutes ago, Sambrook said:

Interesting. Could you expand on that, please?

Playing double bass is more like a wrestling match with a ships rigging while trying to dance a waltz with a wardrobe than playing a guitar.

[Bloopdad1]

1 hour ago, Sambrook said:

Interesting. Could you expand on that, please?

It'll literally take pages and pages to describe the difference.... 

Ive been playing double bass professionally for over 35yrs and I'm still no where near mastering it.  I reckon the bass guitar can only play about 20% of what a double bass can do (especially with a bow and a lifetime of playing! 😂) 

Bass guitar is a plank with pickups to capture the fluctuating magnetic field over its pickups. 

On a double bass the whole thing "breathes" YOU generate the sound by physically vibrating a 42" long string with HUGE forces and vibrating masses. 

If you want louder you can't turn a tiny knob and get instant volume. The dynamic range of a DB is huge, you can literally shake windows unamplified, but YOU need to generate that sound. 

You use muscles you didn't know you had. Humidity/temperatures and environment have an enormous effect on how the bass "speaks" (some days you'll get to the concert hall and it's like the thing says "I'm cold, nope you'll not get a note out of me today, put me back in my case"!) 

Strings, nut, tail piece, spike, bridge, sound post and bass bar all have an enormous effect on your playing enjoyment as do your fingers. 

Be prepared to answer some funny questions going into Disney when they try to take your fingerprints... You won't have any! 

Bass guitar lightly pluck with finger tips, DB, you pluck with the side of your fingers and whole hand arm, shoulder, back and your hips. Going for a true FF the note has to start with your biggest muscles, and then play the Bottesini and you'll need the litest of touches, flexibility, with finesse and the dexterity of picaso applying the finishing touches to his finest masterpiece! 

 

If you think it's just a big bass guitar then you're only using it to 5% of its capabilities or you're not playing it properly...

 

Oh,top tip - the bass will have sh*t or knackered strings on it. Budget for a set of Evahs or Spiros to wake it up (£220 for a set of Evahs these days) 

 

Seriously consider a teacher.. 

 

[Bloopdad1]

1 hour ago, Sambrook said:

Interesting. Could you expand on that, please?

I'll attach one of my favourite YouTube clips... Regardless of your musical style and genre watch it all the way through just to see what a bass can do. 

I love my bass guitars (especially my '72 P bass) and it's great to groove on Superstition or Mr Brightside but it's just all too easy to play loud and fast, nothing compares to the real thing in dynamics, speed, range or satisfaction. 

 

 

[NickA]

1. Don't buy new. 2nd hand is much better value

2. Don't go too cheap and do try before you buy.  A nasty cheap bass that doesnt make the right sounds will put you off climbing the learning curve and you'll end up selling at a loss.  Low notes on a cheap laminate often too quiet.

3. Muscle memory for sure, but also proper technique in which you learn to use fixed positions on the neck and move between them by swapping one finger with another

[Paddy Morris]

There are dozens of reasonable used basses on ebay at the moment.

 

The 'don't buy new' adage is spot on.  I bought new twice, and each time it took me at least 18 months of hard playing to get the wood to open up.  With a used bass someone has done at least some of that work for you.

 

Also, an average bass that has been played a lot, with really good strings and a luthier set-up, is going to work much better for you than a new bass,  with factory strings and factory set-up.