Is it a compressor that I'm looking for?

[matybigfro]

After an age of never really getting with a compressor I've been really enjoying my Seymour Duncan Double Back Compressor especially as I'm switching between fingers, pick and slap in the set with my current band. I really like how the clean blend function in the Duncan allows some of the natural responsiveness and feel to stay in my sound but increases my sustain and also how it helps keep the volume level close when kicking in fuzz and dirt pedals. 

 

There are a few areas that I've been finding it lacking that have me looking at other options (namely at the moment the TC Spectracomp)

 

 

I've always struggled with the classic OC-2 -1 octave only setting not sounding loud enough, I've even done the part mod clipping one of the legs of the dry pot for a increase which made a slight difference but I feel like with the compressor on after the oc-2 the volume drop is more pronounced, I'm assuming because the compressor see's the gain breeching the threshold when the oc-2 is on. 

 

The other issue is balancing the level across strings, I currently have the eq on my BDI21 pre amp set with the treble maxed and bass cut slightly to achieve the texted/tone that I'm after however I find this makes my D and G strings sound louder than the E and A especially when playing around the 10th fret and upwards. I was wondering if a multi-band compressor after he pre-amp, would perhaps address this level difference across the strings whilst leaving the overall tone/texture that I'm going from across the strings more in tact

 

[Boodang]

A tri band compressor would definitely give you more control. The great thing about the Spectracomp is that it's cheap and you can use the app to take full control of all parameters. I have a setup where I use 2 Spectracomps, one at the start of the chain in tri band mode, and one at the end acting more as a hard limiter.

[matybigfro]

Yea I'm kinda tempted by a setup like that although I have hangups about how many digital pedals I have in my chain

[Frank Blank]

Paging @Osiris

[Osiris]

On 18/08/2022 at 06:01, matybigfro said:

After an age of never really getting with a compressor I've been really enjoying my Seymour Duncan Double Back Compressor especially as I'm switching between fingers, pick and slap in the set with my current band. I really like how the clean blend function in the Duncan allows some of the natural responsiveness and feel to stay in my sound but increases my sustain and also how it helps keep the volume level close when kicking in fuzz and dirt pedals. 

 

There are a few areas that I've been finding it lacking that have me looking at other options (namely at the moment the TC Spectracomp)

 

 

I've always struggled with the classic OC-2 -1 octave only setting not sounding loud enough, I've even done the part mod clipping one of the legs of the dry pot for a increase which made a slight difference but I feel like with the compressor on after the oc-2 the volume drop is more pronounced, I'm assuming because the compressor see's the gain breeching the threshold when the oc-2 is on. 

 

The other issue is balancing the level across strings, I currently have the eq on my BDI21 pre amp set with the treble maxed and bass cut slightly to achieve the texted/tone that I'm after however I find this makes my D and G strings sound louder than the E and A especially when playing around the 10th fret and upwards. I was wondering if a multi-band compressor after he pre-amp, would perhaps address this level difference across the strings whilst leaving the overall tone/texture that I'm going from across the strings more in tact

 

 

Is it a compressor that you're looking for? The short answer is possibly. 

 

The long answer is more complex. Skipping over the OC-2 issue for the most part, it sounds like the make up gain from your SD compressor is helping to compensate for the volume drop there. I don't have an OC-2 and haven't used on for 25 odd years so can't really help any further with that. 

 

But my stock answer regarding compressors and their use is, if you don't know much already, do your homework. I cannot emphasise that enough, there's a lot of misunderstanding and misconceptions about them as well as some outright nonsense written about them - even on Basschat unfortunately. But to get the best out of a compressor you need to understand what they do and how to best apply compression. And that takes time as compression is (mostly) subtle. The impression I get is that a lot of people treat a compression pedal as an effect because it's a stomp box, right? But they make much more sense when thought of in terms of shaping your sound, so more in line with using tools like EQ , high pass filtering rather than an effect that will dazzle or impress anyone like a filter or synth pedal. Someone far more clued up than me on compression said that you need to think like a sound engineer rather than a bass player to use them properly, and that perfectly sums it up!

 

Having got that out of the way...

 

What do you feel is lacking from the SD? That might help identify potential replacements. If you're just looking for a volume leveler you might be better off with a limiter, for example. The Spectracamp is a great little pedal and infinitely configurable, off the top of my head there's something like 48 individual parameters to tweak. And if you have the understanding they are incredibly powerful. There's also the new Source Audio Atlas that is making me all moist around the nether regions, if nobody else! 

 

But being brutally honest, I suspect the inconsistency between your strings is down to the BDI21. Like the Sansamp Bass Driver it rips off it has a baked in huge void in the mid range which sounds sexy when the bass is played in isolation but is pretty much the last thing you actually need to get the bass to sit in the mix. The audible frequency range of the bass guitar is predominantly in the mid range frequencies and scooping them, especially as extremely as the BDI21 does, is in essence turning much - but not all - of the instrument down. As well as the absent mid range I also find the inherent sound of the pedal is too overly compressed anyway, certainly for my taste, so adding even more compression on top is unlikely to help. My suggestion would be to switch the DBI off and kill it with fire to see how things sound. If you still want that edge to your sound try something like the TC Electronic Spark Booster, the 4 knob version not the mini one. That way you can add some grit to the sound without completely f@cking it up making the sound difficult to work with. All IMO, of course 😃

[matybigfro]

Yea I've heard the criticism about the BDI's scooping mids but I really like the Ampeg-esque sound and slight tube feel it gives even with the drive low. I set it clean rather than overdriven  and have tried to limit the mid scoop by setting the blend about 50% and setting the bass knob below 50% although I'm not sure how successful it is. It means i get a fairly consistent sound regardless of what backline I'm using at gigs although I did do without when the practice space we were using had a Fender Bass 300 which sounded soo good the BDI was totally unnecessary.

 

I think long term I wanna build a Ampeg pre-amp style pedal which will give more mid control maybe. The problem is a like allot of treble in my tone too, i think my strings need changing cos at the mo I run the BDI with the treble maxed out which obviously doesn't help the string balance issue.

 

I think overall I really like the SD I find the Clean Blend helps it to feel fairly natural while the compression gives more sustain and brings out some of the subtler quirks of my playing. I was playing with it at the end of my signal chain which I also found helped with balancing levels between clean and gain pedals (not totally limiting as I find that i want a little bit of a level boost when overdrive or fuzz are in play as the band tend to be louder in those sections and also they increase compression too but I found hitting that sweet spot of how much level boost easier to find with the compressor at the end I think). 

 

The only issues with this was perceived volume drop when the OC-2 is engaged, putting the SD at the start of my chain pretty has pretty much removed this issue which is what makes me thing it's about the perceived difference in volume when the OC-2 is so sub freq focused. Hence wondering if a mult-band compressor at the end of my chain might work better helping decrease the impact of volume boosts from gain pedals without totally removing them but not being as triggered by huge low end from the OC-2. 

 

 

I guess the other thing I was hoping to achieve with a compressor was being able create a treblely tone/texture with the EQ on the BDI across the strings but balancing the overall volume of those strings when played and I'm not sure if that will be done best at the start of the chain or the end.

 

 

Really I think I need to sit down with a couple of decent compressors and play around with them in my chain to see if it can get where i'd like.

 

 

 

 

 

[Osiris]

It's obvious difficult, if not impossible, to know what's going on without actually hearing your setup. But a couple of hints in the above post reinforce my suspicion that the BDI is the problem i.e. backing off the bass off and running the treble flat out as well as getting a more usable sound from a different amp. 

 

There are other ways of getting a top end bite to your tone without a massive mid scoop (which again is what I suspect the problem is). But if you really want to use that sound then you might just have to learn to live with it. 

 

You can use multi band compression as a sort of EQ, I have done this in the past with the TC Hypergravity. But this is where you need to understand the ins and outs of compression to set it up so it works for you. If you were to go down that road you could compress and boost your highs while using separate bands for the lows and mids. What it would sound like on the other hand...

 

Again I'm second guessing here so could be way off the mark but it might be better to set up a bass sound, regardless of compression, that works with the other instruments you play with, rather than having "your sound". It might not sound great on its own but it'll fit in and make the whole band sound right. And yes, I speak from experience here 😃

[CJPJ]

Funny story. I bought a Atlas from Andertons yesterday., succumbed to the marketing and reviews. I played around with it last night an couldn't hear any difference in sound and frankly didn't understand the effect. I expected it to be a magic trick that would just elevate my tone to that of a pro. I went back to the store this afternoon to trade it in for a Microtubes Infinity or BassRig'64. I spend around an hour messing about with these two pedals and go equally confused and frustrated that it wasn't giving me the sound I wanted or heard on YT videos. So I pluged the Atlas back in to compare whilst I was still in the demo booth and with a bit of focus .... and I started to hear the differences in tone and started to understand the pedal. I ended up keeping the pedal and didn't trade it in. I appreciate that the pedals I tried weren't specifically compressors but its the eternal chase for 'that sound' that frankly makes you sound better. I realise that sometimes you just have to drop your expectations and invest the time and focus to explore the inputs and output. It has had such good reviews and I hope that I can tap into it in a way that suits me and works for me. I'm going to give it more time to really learn and understand the concepts of compression and how I can get the effect to work for me and my tone. Hence why I found this thread! I'll let you know how I get on! 🙂

[Osiris]

14 hours ago, CJPJ said:

Funny story. I bought a Atlas from Andertons yesterday., succumbed to the marketing and reviews. I played around with it last night an couldn't hear any difference in sound and frankly didn't understand the effect. I expected it to be a magic trick that would just elevate my tone to that of a pro. I went back to the store this afternoon to trade it in for a Microtubes Infinity or BassRig'64. I spend around an hour messing about with these two pedals and go equally confused and frustrated that it wasn't giving me the sound I wanted or heard on YT videos. So I pluged the Atlas back in to compare whilst I was still in the demo booth and with a bit of focus .... and I started to hear the differences in tone and started to understand the pedal. I ended up keeping the pedal and didn't trade it in. I appreciate that the pedals I tried weren't specifically compressors but its the eternal chase for 'that sound' that frankly makes you sound better. I realise that sometimes you just have to drop your expectations and invest the time and focus to explore the inputs and output. It has had such good reviews and I hope that I can tap into it in a way that suits me and works for me. I'm going to give it more time to really learn and understand the concepts of compression and how I can get the effect to work for me and my tone. Hence why I found this thread! I'll let you know how I get on! 🙂

 

I'm gassing for an Atlas at the minute it looks to be THE one compressor to rule them all. 

 

But as I said earlier in the thread, compression is a very much misunderstood subject. To get the best from any compressor you really need to understand what they do and how to apply them. Again, this cannot be stressed enough. My guess is that a lot of people assume that it's a fancy effect like a phaser or synth pedal and that they will notice a huge difference in their sound. But that's not the point of them. If you think of it in terms of shaping and controlling your tone (think more along the lines of EQ and HPF) and think more like a sound engineer or producer than a bass player, then they will make a total sense and - IMO - prove to be far more useful than one of the flash effects that you might use for one song on a 2 hour gig. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Osiris

[CJPJ]

Totally understood and this is what I’m looking for - a fundamental quality to my tone rather than throwaway fancies 

[Chienmortbb]

On 08/09/2022 at 19:34, Osiris said:

But being brutally honest, I suspect the inconsistency between your strings is down to the BDI21. Like the Sansamp Bass Driver it rips off it has a baked in huge void in the mid range which sounds sexy when the bass is played in isolation but is pretty much the last thing you actually need to get the bass to sit in the mix.

Yes, the BDI21 has a mid-suck if you have the Drive and blend knobs anywhere but fully anti-clockwise. The sweep below shows a 5-6dB suck centred on 700Hz will all controls at 12 o'clock. It is worth noting that you need to up the level; control to get to unity gain, that is, when the output is the same level as the input.

 

 

If you do turn off the offending controls, with all the others at 12 o'clock, except Treble backed off to 10 o'clock, you get:

 

 

A very nice flat DI with a built-in HPF. Of course, there is a modification to get the mids back, and I will be modding mine soon. I will report on that later.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Chienmortbb

[Osiris]

26 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Yes, the BDI21 has a mid-suck if you have the Drive and blend knobs anywhere but fully anti-clockwise. The sweep below shows a 5-6dB suck centred on 700Hz will all controls at 12 o'clock. It is worth noting that you need to up the level; control to get to unity gain, that is, when the output is the same level as the input.

 

 

If you do turn off the offending controls, with all the others at 12 o'clock, except Treble backed off to 10 o'clock, you get:

 

 

A very nice flat DI with a built-in HPF. Of course, there is a modification to get the mids back, and I will be modding mine soon. I will report on that later.

 

Thanks for the graphs. I briefly had one but just couldn't get a sound that I was happy with from it, it just sounded overly scooped whatever I did with it, same with the Tech21 Bass Driver. When I eventually dialed in a passable tone the blend was right backed off to fully clean which kind of defeated the point of it, IMO. So I shifted it on and went through a shed load of other preamp pedals before setting on one that gave me what I wanted. But it's good to know that it can get flat even if (assuming I understand you correctly) you are effectively bypassing the tone controls.