Colour opinions wanted - repair or strip??

[carlsim]

Hi all... I  have picked up a very nice Xotic XJ ProVintage 5 string recently (the build in Indonesia and assembled in USA ones...). I bought it from Bass Direct knowing it had damage to the finish in the bottom corner where the knobs are and luckily, it is just damage to the finish - not the wood beneath. Some of you may have seen it on their website - i took a risk as I got it at a good price. Not good enough for me to hand it over and pay for a complete strip and repaint, but good enough that I can treat it as a project and get it better than how it is now.

 

It's the lake placid blue finish which I really like: 

 

So the idea would be to speak to Xotic, see if I can get some paint, strip the damage and repaint probably doing the prep myself and taking it somewhere to get it painted. Alternatively, do the prep work myself and key the rest of the body, get some lake placid blue from somewhere and paint the damage and blow over the rest of the guitar to a good finish. I assume it will need a lacquer as well.

 

Alternatively, as it has the same body wood as the natural finish version, do I strip and oil / finish the wood so it's a natural finish. 

 

I'm aware that guitar builders use the 'best' bodies for natural finish, so it will be pot luck as to the grain / look of the wood but I am hoping for the best on this front. The plus side is that I enjoy a good bit of woodwork, could do it all myself and would aim to sand flat, get rid of all the paint and get it nice and smooth. Then possibly oil or probably wax and wax then buff to a satin kind of look.

 

What do people think? I don't have the dosh for a complete re-finish professionally and I am aware of it looking like a bodge so the strip may be the way to go. Can anyone offer any advice or personal experiences? Thanks for any advice!

[Bigguy2017]

I'd fill, level and repaint.

When stripping painted bodies you never know what you'll get underneath as some companies use the crappier wood under their painted finishes, and you never see until you've started stripping.

I suppose, worst case is strip it, find mismatched wood and then have to full refin' anyway. With a cheapy I'd give it a try.

 

[PaulThePlug]

Just leave it as-Is - Post Pic of the damage...

Edited August 24, 2022 by PaulThePlug

[carlsim]

https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Xotic_XJ5_LITE.html

[ezbass]

That’s quite an extensive crack, it looks like the finish hasn’t bonded to the undercoat properly. If you don’t mind the odd chip (mojo and all that), I’d be inclined to try and stabilise the finish, if possible, with cyanoacrylate glue. However, I do wonder if that entire finish would just lift off really easily, leaving a sealed, natural finish, that you could sand and buff?

[PaulThePlug]

Strip 'n Wax... Back, Sack 'n Crack!

[Andyjr1515]

On 24/08/2022 at 15:29, carlsim said:

It's the lake placid blue finish which I really like

I think this says it all, @carlsim

 

Stripping it to natural is possible, with relatively few tools, and a decent natural refinish can be done wipe-on with something like Osmo Polyx.  But it is NOT easy.  After the full strip down of electrics and components, you will probably find that the rest of the metallic comes off relatively well with a heatgun and decorators scraper.  It will be a false sense of security.  That white you see underneath?  It will probably be an industrial-grade primer-sealer and will be VERY hard work to get off down to the wood.  Sanding is pretty much the only way and, I kid you not, that can take days if you are trying not to dig in to the wood surface.  And then, as @Bigguy2017 says, you don't know what it's going to be like underneath.

 

If you like Lake Placid Blue, I would personally do what @ezbass suggests: a small amount of thin CA wicked under the raised flap (too much and it will come out through the cracks and set on the paint finish...and that is very difficult to make it look good again) to keep it from lifting and snapping off, a spot of humbrol enamel to hide the white of the exposed surface where it's chipped and then I would treat it as mojo.  

[carlsim]

Thanks for the advice @Andyjr1515

 

I have spoken to someone at Xotic and they confirm that they use 'paint grade' bodies for painted finishes and in his words, "Save the pretty ones for the natural finishes". I think a strip and wax will be put on the backburner for now.

 

They recommended a complete strip and re-paint if I wanted to fix as they think a match would be difficult but I think I have managed to stabilise any loose layers of paint with CA and clamped them down as it wouldn't stay down whilst it dried. I'm not entirely happy but it will do for now until I can decide what to do. I am going to speak to some paint people to see how good they think they can get a match and then I can possibly look into a repair rather than a full respray. 

[PaulThePlug]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

That white you see underneath?  It will probably be an industrial-grade primer-sealer and will be VERY hard work to get off down to the wood.  Sanding is pretty much the only way and, I kid you not, that can take days if you are trying not to dig in to the wood surface... 

 

Had this witha cheap Cruiser / Crafter... not so bad for a respray, but if planning on stain, oil, or wax it needs to ALL come off - Nightmare!

I was going 'Au Natural' in Danish Oil... and wished i left well alone and kept it Red... Learning Experiance with a £Tenner Bass!

Edited August 26, 2022 by PaulThePlug

[Maude]

1 hour ago, carlsim said:

I'm going to speak to some paint people to see how good they think they can get a match and then I can possibly look into a repair rather than a full respray. 

 

The cost for a repair probably won't be any different than a full respray. 

The prep is the time consuming part. Once ready for paint the quickest, cheapest option is to do an entire refinish. 

It will be a blue basecoat and clear topcoat. 

 

The damage is extensive enough that a small 'spot repair', while possible, isn't worth the extra effort involved in blending the blue, then fading out the lacquer and polishing the lacquer edges. You also risk the blue not matching. 

 

The next option is repair, then blend the blue over the repair and lacquer the entire body. Again, doable but there's the risk of a halo around the blended blue and the blue being a different shade. Lots of things will change the shade of a colour but get ten different LPBs from ten different suppliers and they will all be different, even different batches from the same supplier. 

The area left after repair will be about the same area needed to blend the blue satisfactorily, so pointless really attempting a blend. 

 

The only option I'd go for if asked to paint it would be full blue basecoat respray and full lacquer. 

Far less time consuming and guaranteed results. 

 

If you've got a bodyshop local to you they will be able to scan the body (before you do any repair) and mix the colour to match. 

This will probably be cheaper than buying your own paint from a guitar supplier as they will only have to mix what they need, plus they will be using paint they're used to and set up for. 

 

If you can look up the paint code or RAL number online they probably won't even need to scan the bass. 

LPB is afterall just an old car colour, Cadillac I seem to remember, probably late fifties. 

 

If you do the prep yourself, just take the lacquer and the blue basecoat off. There's no need to remove the sealer coat, it's an absolute pig to remove normally and once off you/your painters will only need to replace it. If the damage is through the sealer coat I'd look to repair those small areas rather than remove all of it, then prime. 

 

Good luck 🙂👍

[Richard R]

How about making an extension to the pickguard to cover the damage? 

If you could initially have it held in place by the nuts on the pots then you would avoid having to drill holes for screws, and so can try before you commit.

Something in tort to match what you have?

Edited August 26, 2022 by Richard R

[BassBunny]

3 minutes ago, Richard R said:

How about making an extension to the pickguard to cover the damage? 

If you could initially have it held in place by the nuts on the pots then you would avoid having to drill holes for screws, and so can try before you commit.

Something in tort to match what you have?

Even a complete custom pickguard would be easier and probably cheaper. Good idea @Richard R

[carlsim]

Thanks for all the great advice guys, I'm still at a bit of stalemate with what to do. It isn't my main bass so have the luxury to make it a long term project. I had a more in depth conversation with someone at Xotic and he did say that the body may have small flaws (he stressed the may) but essentially they are all the same wood - they just pick out the ones with the nicer / more distinct grain patterns for natural finishes.

Either way, I think it's two options - strip back and re-paint (I will do the prep work myself and just pay someone to paint) or strip right back and see what the wood is like with an aim to wax / satin lacquer finish which I can do all myself. If i get it sanded back and don't like the look of it, I can then look at painting again.

I think I am going to sand back / strip off the paint on the front anyway to get an idea of what it 'could' look like waxed, and then decide if I continue that route or just strip back to the sealer coat for a re-spray. The good thing is I got it cheap enough to pay for a re-spray! It isn't a cheapo bass and it plays lovely so I do want to make a good job of it at the end.

Better get stripping! The bass, not me!

[carlsim]

Can anyone recommend someone to do a re-spray? Just need the top coat and lacquer...

[AndyTravis]

3 minutes ago, carlsim said:

Can anyone recommend someone to do a re-spray? Just need the top coat and lacquer...

I’d normally save Dave Wilson - but he’s not working currently.

 

Tom Diggins (TDog Custom) has stopped taking on work as he’s swamped.

 

SIMs have stopped doing paint jobs now I think too?

 

Bow finishing come highly recommended 

 

 

[pete.young]

Andrew Guyton is near you but he will not be cheap!

 

Steve at Guitar Lodge in Felixstowe does refininshing. I've not used him for this so I dont' know how good his work in this respect, but he's done several setups and one headstock break fix for me and the work has been of excellent quality at a reasonable price.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

What is it with BD and Xotic? They have a nice XJ-1T in black with a chunk out of the paintwork.

 

https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Xotic_XJ4.html

[Mudpup]

Or how about something nice and subtle from here?

😉

 

https://www.skinyourskunk.com/index.html

[Richard R]

22 minutes ago, Mudpup said:

Or how about something nice and subtle from here?

😉

 

https://www.skinyourskunk.com/index.html

My poor eyes!!

[carlsim]

going to make a start this week stripping the hardware ready to start on the paint this week... gonna start slowly with the damaged area by hand and will see how that goes, then I may well get a bit more on it with a stripper and orbital sander! 

@Andyjr1515did you mention that the best approach is to use a heat gun and decorators scraper? Any other advice with getting stuck in stripping the paint? 

I'm going to try a small area on the back to see how easy it is to get back to the wood (and also to see if it is worthwhile to consider a natural finish...)

I will start a new post on the build diaries if anyone is interested to see how it goes!

[Andyjr1515]

3 minutes ago, carlsim said:

going to make a start this week stripping the hardware ready to start on the paint this week... gonna start slowly with the damaged area by hand and will see how that goes, then I may well get a bit more on it with a stripper and orbital sander! 

@Andyjr1515did you mention that the best approach is to use a heat gun and decorators scraper? Any other advice with getting stuck in stripping the paint? 

I'm going to try a small area on the back to see how easy it is to get back to the wood (and also to see if it is worthwhile to consider a natural finish...)

I will start a new post on the build diaries if anyone is interested to see how it goes!

Hi

That's what I have found to be the most successful.  There are challenges - it needs to get pretty hot to soften enough for the scraper to get the coating off, but you have to avoid scorching the wood underneath.  So I find sweeps across a small to medium area to slowly warm it and not holding the heatgun static in one place too long.  Take your time at the edges and cutaways for the same reason.  

 

Also care with the scraper - don't dig into the wood.  Again, patience is your friend here.

 

Given that the pieces are so easily cracking away, you might find that the top layer actually does come off fairly easily.  For the sub layer of primer, don't use the heat gun - move onto sanding block/orbital sander.  It's hard work - take a couple of days over it so you don't have to rush and dig in or sand something you don't want to!

 

And yes - we are all very interested how it goes

 

[carlsim]

Just now, Andyjr1515 said:

Hi

That's what I have found to be the most successful.  There are challenges - it needs to get pretty hot to soften enough for the scraper to get the coating off, but you have to avoid scorching the wood underneath.  So I find sweeps across a small to medium area to slowly warm it and not holding the heatgun static in one place too long.  Take your time at the edges and cutaways for the same reason.  

 

Also care with the scraper - don't dig into the wood.  Again, patience is your friend here.

 

Given that the pieces are so easily cracking away, you might find that the top layer actually does come off fairly easily.  For the sub layer of primer, don't use the heat gun - move onto sanding block/orbital sander.  It's hard work - take a couple of days over it so you don't have to rush and dig in or sand something you don't want to!

 

And yes - we are all very interested how it goes

 

Thanks mate - will start a build diary post and add the link shortly... 

[carlsim]

For anyone interested, i have started a build post where I will document my limited successes and no doubt, a long list of failings before I finally turn it over to someone who knows what they are doing!