Just curious!?

[Ed_S]

I've seen a guy play electric upright fretless at a metal gig for no other reason than all his stuff was in the car from the previous gig and he didn't want to go home and swap gear. Nobody seemed to care and the band sounded pretty much as they always did, so if you can make the right sounds then I don't see why it should matter. I might be a bit cautious if I was setting up a new band and the prospective fretless player lacked experience of playing live, because stage fright and no frets sounds like the perfect storm to me as a fretted-only bassist.

 

Another way of looking at it might be how much do you want to play in the band Vs how much do you want to play only fretless? If somebody said that I needed to play fretless to be in their band, I couldn't, so that's me out of the running. If somebody said I had to play a 6 string, even though I knew I wouldn't need it, I could still do that so I'd just weigh up how much I wanted to get my foot in the door (and maybe have the conversation about dropping back to a 5 later on) against how much I wanted to have the argument right now and throw away the gig.

[Dan Dare]

11 minutes ago, nilorius said:

I always like liked to play my grooves with lots of note, more like funk, jazz. Maybe that is the problem, they just don't want to bass explode so much.

 

And that right there could be the issue. If you attend an audition and tell the band "This is the way I do it and I don't care what you want", you're unlikely to get the gig. They will probably not tell you bluntly that they don't like your attitude and that they want someone who is willing to be more flexible and fit in with the rest of the band. They are more likely to be diplomatic and say something along the lines of "We're not looking for a fretless/fretted player" or similar.

[jezzaboy]

I`ve played in bands for 17 years and can`t remember any player ever noticing what type of bass I played despite changing them on a regular basis. As long as you can play your parts to the desired standard and aren`t a tw*t, I don`t think it matters if you play a fretted or fretless bass,

[Leonard Smalls]

I've played one gig with our punkfunk band using the fretless. The main difference,I found, was that it was more difficult to get a sound that cut through the other bass and the guitar. Nobody noticed that it was a fretless, though there were comments on how cool the Lightwave looked in black...

[Drax]

.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Drax
Dupe

[Drax]

45 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

  I might be a bit cautious if I was setting up a new band and the prospective fretless player lacked experience of playing live, because stage fright and no frets sounds like the perfect storm to me as a fretted-only bassist.

 

 
Throw in bad sound and darkness - common on any gig.. real leveller on fretless 

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, Drax said:

 
Throw in bad sound and darkness - common on any gig.. real leveller on fretless 

 

Many fretless players close their eyes whilst playing; rare are those that need to see what their left hand is doing. It's all in the ears. I might agree that one needs to hear the sound of the bass, but I don't see (hear..?) that as much of a difference between fretted and fretless.
Disclaimer : Our Youngest plays my 6-string fretless in our pop/rock group, and one wouldn't know it's fretless; it's never been remarked upon. To me, it's a non-issue (but I'm a drummer, so...).

[Drax]

Absolutely. You shouldn’t need to see at all and great practice discipline playing in dark. Definitely learnt the hard way on some early fretless gigs! That’s where it’s a leveller, tells you very quickly how competent you are. 

Bad stage sound though - way more comfortable playing up the higher end on a fretted.. 

[nilorius]

8 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Many fretless players close their eyes whilst playing; rare are those that need to see what their left hand is doing. It's all in the ears. I might agree that one needs to hear the sound of the bass, but I don't see (hear..?) that as much of a difference between fretted and fretless.
Disclaimer : Our Youngest plays my 6-string fretless in our pop/rock group, and one wouldn't know it's fretless; it's never been remarked upon. To me, it's a non-issue (but I'm a drummer, so...).

I think my problem that i told everybody before, that i will play fretless and my grooves were too explosive. That is why a weak ago i fretted my Jaco artist fretless. It sounds sound punchy and cool and next time i will choose it to start and be more couses - what i play to let dominate solo and keyboard.

[Dad3353]

4 minutes ago, nilorius said:

I think my problem that i told everybody before, that i will play fretless and my grooves were too explosive. That is why a weak ago i fretted my Jaco artist fretless. It sounds sound punchy and cool and next time i will choose it to start and be more couses - what i play to let dominate solo and keyboard.

 

One basic rule, as a starting point, is to listen to what the drummer is doing. In many styles, that's the 'holding down the song' part; the rest can maybe come later, but bass/drums are a good foundation to build from. Just my tuppence-worth; good luck in your search. 

[nilorius]

4 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

One basic rule, as a starting point, is to listen to what the drummer is doing. In many styles, that's the 'holding down the song' part; the rest can maybe come later, but bass/drums are a good foundation to build from. Just my tuppence-worth; good luck in your search. 

Thanks. Last time with drummer was that he was playing all the way the same at the same agresive level which didn't match the band style. Others didn't care, but i told him to maybe level down a bit. He didn't listen. Tho i had to find a way to addopt and i did, but then he told me that i was too louad, i turned a bit down, but started to not here a bit what i was playing. Rythm acoustic guitar was unhearable also. But the drummer kept his agressive one type groove in all songs we tried out. Later i told the band leader- vocal, rythm guitarist about it, but it seemead he didn't care. Finally - they said they will cooperate with different bassist.

[Phil Starr]

10 minutes ago, nilorius said:

I think my problem that i told everybody before, that i will play fretless and my grooves were too explosive. That is why a weak ago i fretted my Jaco artist fretless. It sounds sound punchy and cool and next time i will choose it to start and be more couses - what i play to let dominate solo and keyboard.

Sadly that is how most bands see bass. It has a function in the band of holding down the rhythm and defining the chord changes. To be fair that is what most songs call for in most genres. If someone else is soloing they really just want to know where the bass is going to be so the soloist or singer can concentrate on what they are doing and know if they get lost someone in the band is there to help them get back to where they need to be. 

 

Even if you play Jazz or Funk mostly you'll be playing a groove over a simple chord progression and with a new band you'll need to demonstrate that more than trying to duet with someone you've never met before. 

 

Good luck with the next try out you get

[Dad3353]

7 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Thanks. Last time with drummer was that he was playing all the way the same at the same agresive level which didn't match the band style. Others didn't care, but i told him to maybe level down a bit. He didn't listen. Tho i had to find a way to addopt and i did, but then he told me that i was too louad, i turned a bit down, but started to not here a bit what i was playing. Rythm acoustic guitar was unhearable also. But the drummer kept his agressive one type groove in all songs we tried out. Later i told the band leader- vocal, rythm guitarist about it, but it seemead he didn't care. Finally - they said they will cooperate with different bassist.

 

It sounds as if you're not the best fit for that band anyway; you've dodged a bullet, I'd suggest.  

[nilorius]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

 

It sounds as if you're not the best fit for that band anyway; you've dodged a bullet, I'd suggest.  

Could be, but i will fight tomorow again.

[Crawford13]

18 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Sadly that is how most bands see bass. It has a function in the band of holding down the rhythm and defining the chord changes. To be fair that is what most songs call for in most genres. If someone else is soloing they really just want to know where the bass is going to be so the soloist or singer can concentrate on what they are doing and know if they get lost someone in the band is there to help them get back to where they need to be. 

I don't think this is always a sad thing. The bass holds so much power, we can change the chord, and we can change the whole feel of the groove.

 

To use a cheesy quote, "with great power comes great responsibility". This is very true of the bass guitars role in a band. When auditioning for a band it's important to know what they are looking for from a bassist. If they want some one to play the fundamentals and keep the band together, excellent there are plenty of bass players (including myself) who are more than happy to do that. 

 

If you want to play a different role in the band, adding more to the melody for example, it's important that the band know that, otherwise there's going to be a lot of frustration for all involved.

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, jezzaboy said:

As long as you can play your parts to the desired standard and aren`t a tw*t

 

Amen to that, especially the last part.

 

6 minutes ago, Crawford13 said:

When auditioning for a band it's important to know what they are looking for from a bassist. If they want some one to play the fundamentals and keep the band together, excellent there are plenty of bass players (including myself) who are more than happy to do that. 

 

If you want to play a different role in the band, adding more to the melody for example, it's important that the band know that, otherwise there's going to be a lot of frustration for all involved.

 

Again, spot on.

 

"Explosive" playing can  be another word for drawing attention to oneself/showing off, or being too busy, or even trying to force a way of doing things on the rest of the band. None of these are qualities that will get you a gig unless the band happens to be in sympathy with your approach.

 

A lot of bands don't want a "genius" on the bass, with good reason. They want someone who does the job and fulfils the role. Yes, people like Jaco P are brilliant, push the boundaries, extend what was considered possible for the instrument, etc. But would you want them in your band, drawing focus away from everyone else and even working against what the band is trying to achieve?

 

If Jaco could be reincarnated and turned up for an audition with your band, would you hire him? I wouldn't, although I would happily acknowledge his brilliance. Geniuses are often best admired from afar.

[Doddy]

39 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Thanks. Last time with drummer was that he was playing all the way the same at the same agresive level which didn't match the band style. Others didn't care, but i told him to maybe level down a bit. He didn't listen. Tho i had to find a way to addopt and i did, but then he told me that i was too louad, i turned a bit down, but started to not here a bit what i was playing. Rythm acoustic guitar was unhearable also. But the drummer kept his agressive one type groove in all songs we tried out. Later i told the band leader- vocal, rythm guitarist about it, but it seemead he didn't care. Finally - they said they will cooperate with different bassist.

So, you jammed with a band, complained openly about the drummer, then wondered why they didn't hire you? 

 

With regards to the instrument, not everyone wants a fretless. It will always sound different to a fretted bass because it has a different attack. Sometimes, a gig requires a different bass to your regular instrument, so you can either suck it up and play what's required or you can give the gig to someone who will. 

 

 

 

[nilorius]

2 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Amen to that, especially the last part.

 

 

Again, spot on.

 

"Explosive" playing can  be another word for drawing attention to oneself/showing off, or being too busy, or even trying to force a way of doing things on the rest of the band. None of these are qualities that will get you a gig unless the band happens to be in sympathy with your approach.

 

A lot of bands don't want a "genius" on the bass, with good reason. They want someone who does the job and fulfils the role. Yes, people like Jaco P are brilliant, push the boundaries, extend what was considered possible for the instrument, etc. But would you want them in your band, drawing focus away from everyone else and even working against what the band is trying to achieve?

 

If Jaco could be reincarnated and turned up for an audition with your band, would you hire him? I wouldn't, although I would happily acknowledge his brilliance. Geniuses are often best admired from afar.

Allright, but that was 1rst rehearsal where nobody exactly kney what everybody can, so i think it's not bad to show your skills at first time, then you can talk it over and change the maintance.

[Dan Dare]

43 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Sadly that is how most bands see bass. It has a function in the band of holding down the rhythm and defining the chord changes. To be fair that is what most songs call for in most genres. If someone else is soloing they really just want to know where the bass is going to be so the soloist or singer can concentrate on what they are doing and know if they get lost someone in the band is there to help them get back to where they need to be. 

 

 

Nowt "sad" about it and it applies to pretty well any instrument. Being in a band is about being a team player and complementing what everyone else is doing. That's what gives me most satisfaction about playing the bass. 

[Crawford13]

3 minutes ago, nilorius said:

7 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Amen to that, especially the last part.

 

 

Again, spot on.

 

"Explosive" playing can  be another word for drawing attention to oneself/showing off, or being too busy, or even trying to force a way of doing things on the rest of the band. None of these are qualities that will get you a gig unless the band happens to be in sympathy with your approach.

 

A lot of bands don't want a "genius" on the bass, with good reason. They want someone who does the job and fulfils the role. Yes, people like Jaco P are brilliant, push the boundaries, extend what was considered possible for the instrument, etc. But would you want them in your band, drawing focus away from everyone else and even working against what the band is trying to achieve?

 

If Jaco could be reincarnated and turned up for an audition with your band, would you hire him? I wouldn't, although I would happily acknowledge his brilliance. Geniuses are often best admired from afar.

Expand  

Allright, but that was 1rst rehearsal where nobody exactly kney what everybody can, so i think it's not bad to show your skills at first time, then you can talk it over and change the maintance

We are quite far into this thread. When I first read it, I had the impression that it was a pre audition question.

 

Now I get the idea you have been told you weren't hired because you played fretless and you are trying to figure out if that was the real reason?

[Dan Dare]

6 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Allright, but that was 1rst rehearsal where nobody exactly kney what everybody can, so i think it's not bad to show your skills at first time, then you can talk it over and change the maintance.

 

On the contrary, it's the worst time to "show your skills" Playing in a band is as much about personal skills as it is about being able to play well. By all means demonstrate that you are competent, but if you show off or start telling the other musicians what to do when you don't even know them, be prepared for a rejection.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Dan Dare

[nilorius]

11 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

On the contrary, it's the worst time to "show your skills" Playing in a band is as much about personal skills as it is about being able to play well. By all means demonstrate that you are competent, but if you show off or start telling the other musicians what to do when you don't even know them, be prepared for a rejection.

Playing just G F and A is not compitent skills.

[msb]

I’ve had periods where my primary bass was fretless , and play upright, although today my main basses are fretted. I’ve been the house bassist for a weekly blues jam that has survived for over twenty five years and have noticed … when a guy shows up with a fretless bass … they tend to over play. They seem more concerned about melodic fills than setting a groove. Instead of playing the song they insist on something interesting and clever. Usually to the detriment of the groove and song.
Now I did not say every one , but by far the majority. 
Just an honest observation …

Edited August 28, 2022 by msb

[Dan Dare]

7 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Playing just G F and A is not compitent skills.

 

If it is what the music calls for, it is precisely that. Being a musician is all about making the right choices - what to play, when to play it, how much or little to play and so on. All the technique in the world does not make anyone a good musician and especially not a good band player.

 

A band is a team, or should be. The whole should be greater than the sum of its parts. If you view a band purely as a vehicle to enable you indulge yourself, you are unlikely to fit in well.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Dan Dare

[Doddy]

6 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Playing just G F and A is not compitent skills.

It is if it's what is required to get the gig.