Bridge crack - glue it or kill it?

[AndyBass]

Hi folks. So the other night I was up to some daft antics with my bass in a fairly tight space and crashed into something causing a bridge collapse.

 

Whether caused by that, or whether I only noticed it when I came to put it all back together but it’s been there for ages, I’ve got a fairly sizeable crack in my bridge on one side above the adjuster.

 

Obviously new bridges are a faff and a cost, so my immediate solution is superglue and gorilla tape, but I don’t want it to explode under the pressure when I’m mid gig. Anyone any experience with this kinda thing and did you manage to fix it or chuck it on the fire?

 

Thanks!

[Burns-bass]

I’ve always been told you can fix any wood break or split but this looks terminal to me!

[PaulThePlug]

Dont know much... but i'd be trying to wick or syringe in wood glue, pva, titebond... not superglue.

[TheG]

The thing is if the glue and gorilla repair fails it’s likely to be catastrophic and that’s not a point on the bass that you need that to happen. 
 

I had a crack in a wooden endpin the forces were so great that I knew it wouldn’t last and didn’t want to imagine what would happen if it failed. 
I actually ended up putting a hose clip that you tighten with a screwdriver on it which definitely secured the job but the bass sounded different. 

You could try a similar type of idea if you want certainty but it will look a bit odd. Very secure as a temporary fix though. 
 

Feeling your pain though!!

[AndyBass]

Thanks for the thoughts folks - liking the hose clip idea. Might give that a shot for now to cover a few gigs while I try and find a luthier who can sort me a new bridge. It’s been on shims for extra height since another luthier made a mess of it years ago anyway so happy enough to replace it, but conscious it’ll probably take a while to sort that out and this is my main gigging bass

[neilp]

That's dead. Get a new bridge fitted. It will destroy itself (and quite possibly the top of the bass) sooner or later. Don't try to bodge it, it's only likely to make the inevitable destruction worse

[zbd1960]

Do not underestimate the forces involved with the bridge. A few years ago I was in an orchestra rehearsal and my cello was on its side on the floor next to me. Suddenly there was loud 'ping' and the cello was on its front. What I think happened is one of the strings suddenly lost tension. There was enough twisting force to cause the cello to roll onto its front. The bridge snapped in two, the fingerboard becomes a big lever and it just peeled off the neck. The front of the cello was now a mess. The luthier made a new bridge for me - repairs came to about £350, which the insurance paid for.   

[NickA]

Pva wood glue ( stronger than the wood) if you can get it in the cracks.  Then g-clamp hard and leave for 48hrs.  Should last a while.  I'd save up for a new one tho.

 

[Paddy Morris]

Ah man. That's a shame. It looks tiny, but I guarantee that crack will screw you over on a gig sooner or later, regardless of what you do to it.  I would have thought the maple would be too densely grained to absorb much of the glue.

 

I'd get a new bridge fitted by a decent bass luthier, and not one of these jack of all trades guys either.   It took me a few goes to find a luthier I trust, but the difference is night and day.

[Adey]

I agree with wood glue (cascamite or titebond). Open the crack a bit and splodge as much as you can in there and then clamp it up.

If it fixes a Les Paul neck break it fixes everything!

Edited October 7, 2022 by Adey

[Ralf1e]

On 07/10/2022 at 18:36, Adey said:

I agree with wood glue (cascamite or titebond). Open the crack a bit and splodge as much as you can in there and then clamp it up.

If it fixes a Les Paul neck break it fixes everything!

I agree with the above. Wood glue is stronger than wood.

Push it in there under force with a syringe using industrial needles made especially for lab work and glue injection. The hydrualic effect will force it everywhere and be far more effective than trying to trickle it in.

Then clamp it.

[converse320]

I'm not a luthier, but I've mended a lot of wood cracks over the years.  Why not low viscosity superglue, and a small clamp? 

 

[Ralf1e]

43 minutes ago, converse320 said:

I'm not a luthier, but I've mended a lot of wood cracks over the years.  Why not low viscosity superglue, and a small clamp? 

 

Superglue has a low life i.e it lets go after so long and will not hold as long as a real wood glue.

Great for model aero planes and filling blemishes but wont last as long as the real thing

[3below]

30 minutes ago, converse320 said:

I'm not a luthier, but I've mended a lot of wood cracks over the years.  Why not low viscosity superglue, and a small clamp? 

 

^This, plus, to help the superglue to wick in better, force the crack ever so slightly open - lever it with a nail in the adjuster hole? Screwfix do a low viscosity superglue at a sensible price. 

 

If you were so inclined to strengthen the repair, you could:

 

Plan A:

 

make up small aluminium or wood fillets  (grain running lengthways to the crack) and glue this over the crack (both sides)

or

the hoseclip around the crack area idea

or

a few cable ties around the crack

 

Plan B:

 

Drill a through hole, taking care to miss the adjuster hole/insert, 4mm stainless socket flange head bolt, washers and nyloc nut.  

 

picture shows what I am aiming at

 

 

[converse320]

So its the durability of the repair that's the issue?  

13 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

Superglue has a low life i.e it lets go after so long and will not hold as long as a real wood glue.

Great for model aero planes and filling blemishes but wont last as long as the real thing

Interesting, I've never had an issue with CA durability and have found it great for wicking into small cracks in hardwood like this.  It would certainly be harder to get a "proper" wood glue into the split.  I tend to use either traditional glues or CA exclusively these days.

[Ralf1e]

2 minutes ago, converse320 said:

So its the durability of the repair that's the issue?  

Interesting, I've never had an issue with CA durability and have found it great for wicking into small cracks in hardwood like this.  It would certainly be harder to get a "proper" wood glue into the split.  I tend to use either traditional glues or CA exclusively these days.

Anyone else want to tell this guy it was developed as a field dressing for the Vietnam war. I E designed to be taken apart later once the victim was off the battlefield. It cant withstand damp at all it falls apart after a while

[3below]

An interesting page https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/superglue  I did not know that CA glue bonding is inhibited by acidic hardwoods e.g. oak nor that they are thermoplastic in nature and thus joints will creep over time when subjected to stresses significantly below the brittle failure stress or yield stress.   You may be (or may not be) surprised to know that that cheese and superglue will show the same creep behaviour with aging time (I spent 3 years stretching thermoplastics in my ill gotten youth).

[converse320]

2 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Anyone else want to tell this guy it was developed as a field dressing for the Vietnam war. I E designed to be taken apart later once the victim was off the battlefield. It cant withstand damp at all it falls apart after a while

Manufacturers describe it variously as waterproof or water resistant, so I wouldn't have expected issues with that on a bass bridge, but certainly there are better adhesives for things you expect to get wet or damp.

[Ralf1e]

13 hours ago, 3below said:

An interesting page https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/superglue  I did not know that CA glue bonding is inhibited by acidic hardwoods e.g. oak nor that they are thermoplastic in nature and thus joints will creep over time when subjected to stresses significantly below the brittle failure stress or yield stress.   You may be (or may not be) surprised to know that that cheese and superglue will show the same creep behaviour with aging time (I spent 3 years stretching thermoplastics in my ill gotten youth).

Thanks for the link really good read and yes you learn something everyday or in this case several things 😀

[Johncee]

18 hours ago, 3below said:

An interesting page https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/superglue  I did not know that CA glue bonding is inhibited by acidic hardwoods e.g. oak nor that they are thermoplastic in nature and thus joints will creep over time when subjected to stresses significantly below the brittle failure stress or yield stress.   You may be (or may not be) surprised to know that that cheese and superglue will show the same creep behaviour with aging time (I spent 3 years stretching thermoplastics in my ill gotten youth).

I think it's important not to confuse the cheap superglue you buy from the newsagents with high spec products like Loctite 401, which is superb for bonding clean breaks in all wood species I've tried it on,  including tropical hardwoods like pernambuco. Most bow makers/repairers I know have it in their toolbox. 

[3below]

2 hours ago, Johncee said:

I think it's important not to confuse the cheap superglue you buy from the newsagents with high spec products like Loctite 401, which is superb for bonding clean breaks in all wood species I've tried it on,  including tropical hardwoods like pernambuco. Most bow makers/repairers I know have it in their toolbox. 

 

I have been using it on various bass builds and repairs with no apparent problems yet.  Your point about high spec products vs cheapo stuff is well made.

[Johncee]

On 07/11/2022 at 13:56, Johncee said:

I think it's important not to confuse the cheap superglue you buy from the newsagents with high spec products like Loctite 401, which is superb for bonding clean breaks in all wood species I've tried it on,  including tropical hardwoods like pernambuco. Most bow makers/repairers I know have it in their toolbox. 

As a PS to this, I just wanted to point out the need to be aware of fake products, which abound on eBay and Amazon. If the price looks too good to be true, it probably is!