Compact mixing desks - what are you using?

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

But not possible to have a single mono aux out --> adaptor --> stereo aux in and drive both desktop speakers? 

 

Yes, mono aux out, connect pins 2 (of an XLR plug) to R & T of stereo socket / plug and pin 1 of XLR to S of said socket.

 

If you can't find anything like that send me your address and what plug and I will just send you one to stop you buying mixers!

[Al Krow]

14 hours ago, Jakester said:

Looking at it, could you not just run the Grp1/Grp2 outputs and make sure the channels are selected to 1-2 as well as Mtr?

 

This was a good shout btw - works fine (as does using two of the Aux Out) using a 2 into 1 lead to combine. I was just keen for ease of use to see if I could get the output to both my desktop monitors from a single aux out so I can get an idea of what will be being pumped when we're playing live - but @Woodinblackhas very kindly offered to sort me out with a single adaptor to enable me to do that.

[Al Krow]

22 hours ago, Jakester said:

 

Unfortunately I think so - the aux outs are generally mono on these IIRC. 

 

Surprised you can't finagle or bodge a mono to double mono (i.e. same into both phones) for headphones though. 

 

I know I keep going on about it, and I know it's a LOT more expensive, but the QSC TM16 has two stereo headphone level auxes as well as 8 mono - if you want/need a lot of stereo auxes, that's a good way to do it. 

 

Just looked into the QSC TM16. Yes, what a fabulous piece of kit and super compact too!!! But at £1,385 it's one for the future for us, and I suspect my band will balk at spending £1,000 over the Soundcraft Signature we've just got.

[Al Krow]

13 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Yes, mono aux out, connect pins 2 (of an XLR plug) to R & T of stereo socket / plug and pin 1 of XLR to S of said socket.

 

If you can't find anything like that send me your address and what plug and I will just send you one to stop you buying mixers!

That is super kind of you to sort me out on this - thank you!

 

Now you say stop buying mixers? Hmmm...I'm kinda thinking the opposite i.e. why has it taken me so long to dive into these?!

 

I'm a little gobsmacked at the feature set and EQ options available on my circa £400 Soundcraft Signature 12MTK

• 12 multi-track recording --> Motu M4 up for sale
• 3 band EQ with semi para mids with a f-range from 140Hz to 3KHz, and bass EQ centred at a very sensible 60 Hz --> do I really need an EQ pedal any more?
• Hi Z inputs --> DI no longer required and don't need to stress about balanced outputs not being available on certain multi-fxs
• Dbx limiter with hard-knee compression --> Nice! Not going to miss my Keeley Bassist 
• HPF starting at 100Hz with 18dB / octave cut. Engage that and maybe add a little bass boost and off we go for non-flubby low end --> Thumpinator now also redundant?

I mean, this thing has just paid for itself! And I'm sure @dave_bass5 has got a similar feature set on his Behringer which is sub £300.

[dave_bass5]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

I mean, this thing has just paid for itself! And I'm sure @dave_bass5 has got a similar feature set on his Behringer which is sub £300.

To be honest we only have the vocals, kick drum and keys through ours at the moment. 
Drummer uses a small fancy box that has his mic connected to it, so he sends it already EQ’d, and my keys are also already EQ’d, so it’s only the vocals that take advantage of the desk at the moment. 
I’ve had the deal since 2015 but never really got in to seeing what it can do until this band, but it does keep coming up with nice surprises. 
The monitoring is good, we can use 3 Aux’s if we exclude the FX, but on the whole we only need 2 at the moment. Both are set to pre fader which is handy. Rarely touch those now it’s all set up, although when Dawn fogeys her IEM’s (or doesn’t use them) we use Aux 1 to send my keys direct to the drummers monitor. 

[Al Krow]

We've invested in a pair of RCF 912As which can handle bass very well without the need for an additional sub-woofer, so I'm feeling far less annoyed at having to cart the PA to gigs mainly for the benefit of the rest of the band, now that it's doubling up as my bass rig too! Having a desk with enough aux outs to enable us to have individually tailored monitoring is a very nice bonus.

[EBS_freak]

48 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

We've invested in a pair of RCF 912As which can handle bass very well without the need for an additional sub-woofer, so I'm feeling far less annoyed at having to cart the PA to gigs mainly for the benefit of the rest of the band, now that it's doubling up as my bass rig too! Having a desk with enough aux outs to enable us to have individually tailored monitoring is a very nice bonus.

At last. How long has it taken you?

...Im not saying anything.

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

At last. How long has it taken you?

...Im not saying anything.

 

Haha - fair! But, Russ, I'm just swimming with the tide, going with the flow, you know how it is...

I got caught up with the "wrong sort" on BC (aka Gear-chat) for many years and mis-spent my youth (as a bass-player that is) on all the wrong threads. I mean Accessories and Misc. isn't the obvious place to start is it? And there was no such thing as the IEM Bible thread back then (which I actually read from cover to cover before Christmas in a spare 3 hours I had...). 

[Al Krow]

@Jakester / @EBS_freak On a separate note would I be correct in thinking that the Grp 1 and 2 out are a higher output version of the aux out and therefore no reason we couldn't use these for IEMs, and very possibly without the need for a Behringher P2 or similar?

In which case this unit is offering: 3 Aux out (mono), 1 headphone out (stereo), 2 Grp out (mono) i.e. a total of 6 "monitor" outputs, which will more than cater for our needs.

If we doubled up the 2 Grp, 2 of the aux then, together with headphone out, it would provide three stereo outputs plus a single mono output with the remaining aux out. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Al Krow

[Jakester]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Jakester / @EBS_freak On a separate note would I be correct in thinking that the Grp 1 and 2 out are a higher output version of the aux out an no reason we couldn't use these for IEMs, and very possibly without the need for a Behringher P2 or similar?

In which case this unit is offering  3 Aux out (mono) 1 headphone out (stereo) 2 Grp out (mono) i.e. a total of 6 "monitor" outputs, which will more than cater for our needs.

If we doubled up the 2 Grp, 2 of the aux then, together with headphone out, it would provide three stereo outputs plus a single mono output with the remaining aux out. 

 

Not entirely sure that's correct. As to the level point, I don't know whether they're higher or not than the Auxes - I wouldn't have thought so, so a headphone amp might be required.

 

As to the 3 Aux point, Aux3 is also the FX send/return - so from my recollection you have the Aux 1 and 2 which can be used for monitors, and Aux 3 for either monitor or FX send. So if you're not using FX, you could use it to drive another monitor, but if you are using FX, you'd be cutting off the signal to the internal FX return.

 

I think you are right you can use Grp1 and Grp2 as separate outputs though, provided they're not routed to the master outs. 

[Chienmortbb]

31 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Jakester / @EBS_freak On a separate note would I be correct in thinking that the Grp 1 and 2 out are a higher output version of the aux out and therefore no reason we couldn't use these for IEMs, and very possibly without the need for a Behringher P2 or similar?

In which case this unit is offering: 3 Aux out (mono), 1 headphone out (stereo), 2 Grp out (mono) i.e. a total of 6 "monitor" outputs, which will more than cater for our needs.

If we doubled up the 2 Grp, 2 of the aux then, together with headphone out, it would provide three stereo outputs plus a single mono output with the remaining aux out. 

Alt be Aux busses will probably not be able to supply the current. You could try it though as the outputs will be driven by opamps  and they will be able withstand driving headphones without damage. They would most likely be too quiet for monitoring.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Chienmortbb

[dave_bass5]

I’d also add that the group levels/balance is normally set using the channel faders. This means you can’t have a different mix using them. Aux is better in this respect if you do need to tweak the mix for the monitors. 

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I’d also add that the group levels/balance is normally set using the channel faders. This means you can’t have a different mix using them. Aux is better in this respect if you do need to tweak the mix for the monitors. 

 

Agreed - it's an all or nothing with the Grp levels in terms of selecting particular inputs or not for inclusion in the mix.

[dave_bass5]

12 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Agreed - it's an all or nothing with the Grp levels in terms of selecting particular inputs or not for inclusion in the mix.

Yeah. 
We use the group function on the main desk for all the vocals. It means I can mute all the mics in one go at the end of the set, leaving the iPad playing if necessary. Or raise them all when things get a bit heavier. 

Having  group function on the Mackie has been a god send for use with IEM’s. 

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

We've invested in a pair of RCF 912As which can handle bass very well without the need for an additional sub-woofer, so I'm feeling far less annoyed at having to cart the PA to gigs mainly for the benefit of the rest of the band, now that it's doubling up as my bass rig too! Having a desk with enough aux outs to enable us to have individually tailored monitoring is a very nice bonus.

Getting our powered PA speakers was life changing for us, especially me as i can carry both at the same time. No sub needed. In fact other than the leads bag and stands i can carry the whole PA, as the desk fits in a ruck sack that goers on my back. 

We are considering getting a pair of something better, maybe Yamaha or QCS, but for now we have no complaints. 

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I'm a little gobsmacked at the feature set and EQ options available on my circa £400 Soundcraft Signature 12MTK

• 12 multi-track recording --> Motu M4 up for sale
• 3 band EQ with semi para mids with a f-range from 140Hz to 3KHz, and bass EQ centred at a very sensible 60 Hz --> do I really need an EQ pedal any more?
• Hi Z inputs --> DI no longer required and don't need to stress about balanced outputs not being available on certain multi-fxs
• Dbx limiter with hard-knee compression --> Nice! Not going to miss my Keeley Bassist 
• HPF starting at 100Hz with 18dB / octave cut. Engage that and maybe add a little bass boost and off we go for non-flubby low end --> Thumpinator now also redundant?

I mean, this thing has just paid for itself! And I'm sure @dave_bass5 has got a similar feature set on his Behringer which is sub £300.

 

I guess it depends what you have - I think I might find it a bit restrictive over the X18!

[dave_bass5]

Got a quick question about the X18, actually its iOS app. 

My band are thinking of getting the X18, as it ticks every box we can think of. I downloaded the app to see what it looked like, and it has a demo mode. Clicking on most of the settings closes the app instantly. 

I just wanted to ask if there are any issues with iOS 16. I appreciate the demo might be acting up because there is no hardware attached. 

 

[JPJ]

2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Got a quick question about the X18, actually its iOS app. 

My band are thinking of getting the X18, as it ticks every box we can think of. I downloaded the app to see what it looked like, and it has a demo mode. Clicking on most of the settings closes the app instantly. 

I just wanted to ask if there are any issues with iOS 16. I appreciate the demo might be acting up because there is no hardware attached. 

 

I’m afraid as good as the XAir is (and I love mine) the iOS app will not work on iOS16 and above. Behringer are working on a new app which is in the early stages of testing but no where near the finished article. The de facto option most people are using is Mixing Station, a third party app available on the App Store. Alternatively XAir Edit still runs on windows PC’s and MacBooks. 
Personally, I can’t get away with Mixing Station so I’m running my XR18 using XAir Edit on a Microsoft Surface Go tablet. 

[dave_bass5]

41 minutes ago, JPJ said:

I’m afraid as good as the XAir is (and I love mine) the iOS app will not work on iOS16 and above. Behringer are working on a new app which is in the early stages of testing but no where near the finished article. The de facto option most people are using is Mixing Station, a third party app available on the App Store. Alternatively XAir Edit still runs on windows PC’s and MacBooks. 
Personally, I can’t get away with Mixing Station so I’m running my XR18 using XAir Edit on a Microsoft Surface Go tablet. 

Thanks very much. I must admit I thought it strange the app was closing like that. shame about the iOS thing. I did see Mixing station, ill and have another look.

MacBook is an option but we have a few iPads and id rather take those out. 

[Woodinblack]

Yes, sadly it falls over bigtime on the latest iOS (I have an iPad that I used that isn't updated*). Mixing station works pretty well, a lot of people prefer it (I never really got into it but I have it in case of problems, like when I forgot my iPad, it works on the phone as well). The new app is started and should be ready some point soon. 

 

* I did but it died the other day - so I used my current iPad this gig and it failed a lot, but it was ok as I have a X-Control too.

[Chienmortbb]

15 hours ago, JPJ said:

I’m afraid as good as the XAir is (and I love mine) the iOS app will not work on iOS16 and above. Behringer are working on a new app which is in the early stages of testing but no where near the finished article. The de facto option most people are using is Mixing Station, a third party app available on the App Store. Alternatively XAir Edit still runs on windows PC’s and MacBooks. 
Personally, I can’t get away with Mixing Station so I’m running my XR18 using XAir Edit on a Microsoft Surface Go tablet. 

This is one of the reasons I got the Soundcraft Ui16. It has an onboard web server, so you do not need an App. Just a browser, so OS updates do not matter.

[jimmyb625]

I think I read somewhere that Behringer were working with the developer of Mixing Station on their new app, although I may just have dreamt that.

You can also use an x-touch with the x-air, which may be worth considering, although it does put the price up and means you need a physical connection.

[Chienmortbb]

The good thing about Mixing Station is that it works across all the main makes, and if you are a freelance sound tech, you use just one interface whatever desk is supplied.

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, jimmyb625 said:

I think I read somewhere that Behringer were working with the developer of Mixing Station on their new app, although I may just have dreamt that.

You can also use an x-touch with the x-air, which may be worth considering, although it does put the price up and means you need a physical connection.

 

that's what I meant when I said X-Control, I always forget its name!

Mine are all wireless to a common router anyway, so no additional wiring really (ie, the X-Control USB puts out enough power to power a little router for the ethernet!

[dave_bass5]

Cheers Guys. This all sounds quite exciting.

Ive had a look at Mix station and it seems a but more daunting compared to the Behringer app, but not out of my comfort zone. Ive watched a few YT videos and it looks like it has a bit of a learning curve to set up, but pretty straight forward once it is. 

 

The idea is, at this stage, just to use it for vocals and keys. We dont put the guitars through the PA as they are still too random, volume wise. All our monitors are powered, so each singer (5 of them do it) can have their own tailored monitor mix, and the singer can also have control during the gig. I cant see us actually having or needing 5 monitor mixes though, at least  not until IEM’s are in use. The drummer likes his loud, with loads fo keys, so for him it’s ideal. I’ll take a mono sub mix of the vocals and run that in to my stage mixer, which i can then blend in with my keys for my IEM’s. Id say 3 monitor mixes will be fine. 

Having something like this should, in theory, help speed up sound checks, as im hoping once its all locked in it will just be a case of doing minor tweaks at each gig. 

(Side note. Last gig the lead guitarist was 90 mins late so we didnt get to sound check. He lives 20mins away 😡)

 

Definitely looking to go wireless as ive just worked out how to play one of my keyboards over Bluetooth from an ipad, so having that ability and the ability  to stand in the middle of the room at sound check really appeals to me. I have an old Nighthawk router I’ll use, im aware of the internal Wi-Fi’s issues. 

 

The band are keen to get it, but im not keen for us all to pay for it. Me and the singer (we live together) are going to buy it between us.