Compact mixing desks - what are you using?

[Owen]

They lool like the real deal. Shame about the weight. 

[LLOYDWT]

1 minute ago, Owen said:

They lool like the real deal. Shame about the weight. 

 

Yeah. I used to gig them most weeks, but they're overkill for everything I do now. I keep threatening to sell them, but I know I'll never own anything as nice again so I hold on to them (for now). If they were active and about 25 lbs lighter...

[Woodinblack]

14 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

I was thinking about this, my Soundcraft uses a brick and whilst is is a pain at times, it does meant that a power supply failure does not need an RTB.

 

And how often do you get a power supply failure? When gigging, external power supplies to me are such a pain in the aris, if there are two items, one is slightly better than the other one but has an external power supply, I am going to get the other one.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And how often do you get a power supply failure? When gigging, external power supplies to me are such a pain in the aris, if there are two items, one is slightly better than the other one but has an external power supply, I am going to get the other one.

2 in 25 years. But I carry enough stuff to be able to field a failure.

[Al Krow]

@Kiwi @Silvia Bluejay grateful if one of you could move this to the new PA sub forum please.

[Silvia Bluejay]

Done.

[Chienmortbb]

5 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And how often do you get a power supply failure? When gigging, external power supplies to me are such a pain in the aris, if there are two items, one is slightly better than the other one but has an external power supply, I am going to get the other one.

 

To be fair I have never had a problem with my Soundcraft brick but I have heard of others that have. Of course over the years I have had several laptop bricks go pop. The Soundcraft  has a locking DC connector.
 

To be fair I agree that the IEC is preferable though. As said earlier though the Stagebox version CQ20 does have an IEC connector. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Chienmortbb

[Chienmortbb]

4 hours ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

Done.

 Well done 👏 

 

[LLOYDWT]

*UPDATE ON THE CQ-20B*

 

I've had a chance to play with the mixer properly now, and it's definitely a keeper, but there are a few niggles that'll hopefully get fixed with app updates and firmware updates.

 

The Good:

 

It's a great sounding mixer. The mic preamps sound excellent; to my ears, it's transparent and, by nature, more warm than clinical across the mics I tested and very easy to tweak (either using the full features of the mixer or the easy tweaking features. The FX are well implemented and useful (I've only really played with the reverbs, echoes and delays so far). It's easy to navigate between screens; features are always in the obvious place and the layout is accessible. It's designed to be quick and easy to use and it achieves both. Setting up channels, from gain to EQ to compression and gate to FX to outputs, is easy. It allows me to create a dynamic mix more akin to a larger feature-rich mixer with ease and speed. It feels quality; it's beautifully put together and the metal and textured plastic feel quality. My only worry would be a stray foot breaking the antenna, but this is  easily replaceable. I'm genuinely stunned by how complete a mixer this is for its price point, if you demoed this to me and asked me to guess what the RRP was, I'd be thinking in excess of £1,500.

 

The Bad:

 

There are no mute groups or sub groups. I'm very used to having a mute group for all my FX channels and another for all mics. I mute the FX between tracks, so there's no vocal FX when the band are interacting with the crowd. The mixer gives you two alternatives to this feature for FX that work great, if you're happy to adjust the way you mix: The first, from the FX page there is a "mute all FX button" which functions exactly like an FX mute, but it requires you to navigate away from the faders to enable it, which isn't ideal. The other alternative is to use one of three assignable "soft buttons." These are assignable to mute single channels, the aux outs, and the master stereo out. It can be assigned to mute individual FX or all 4 active FX. The soft buttons are accessible from every screen, so as far as FX goes this functions exactly as a mute group would. The only issue with this solution is the soft buttons don't have labels, so you need to remember what functions and channels you have assigned to each (and you need to communicate this with anybody else using the mixer). Unfortunately, aside from FX and stereo outputs, you can't assign a soft button to mute multiple channels (in or out), so there's no way to mirror the functionality of any other mute group.

 

The monitor app that's due out this month looks to allow you to mix from assignable sub groups, so hopefully the sub group feature will be introduced into the mixing app at the same time. Assignable and labelable mutable sub groups are my biggest and most immediate desired feature.

 

Channel names are limited to six characters. This isn't the end of the world, but it's required me to shorten some of the channel names I've historically used.

 

You can lock an output fader to the right-hand side of the app, but this is replaced by the highlighted fader on the config screen (all other screens show the locked fader). I quickly got used to locking the Master LR to this slot whilst cycling screens; it's very easy to forget that you're not on the  Master fader from the config screen and end up adjusting the output level to the wrong channel.

 

The Ugly:

 

When the app is minimised or the iPad screen is off (I'm using an iPad Air M1 principally, but have had the same issue on other devices) the app quickly disconnects from the mixer (the WiFi connection remains), and you're required to reconnect to the mixer before you can resume mixing. It only takes a few seconds to reconnect, but it's frustrating and could cause real frustration during a gig when you're trying to trouble shoot an issue quickly. I've never experienced this drop using any other mixing apps, so hopefully it's resolvable. 

 

Summary:

 

It very much feels like it's been designed from the ground up to serve a very particular type of use case by people who are genuinely passionate. I know there are people lamenting the lack of Dante or Ultranet, among other features, but it is designed as a self-contained *small* unit and I honestly think that both features would've added cost and complexity that would make the mixer a less attractive prospect to the target audience. If I want Dante or Ultranet, I'll use a bigger mixer.

 

I can get the sounds I want from this mixer; it's not a home run for Allen & Heath, yet. But it's a very capable unit that has addressed many of the short comings of similar products. The hardware appears faultless, and I imagine over the coming weeks and months the software in the CQ mixers is going to get better and better, and I can't wait.

 

Right now, it's good enough, even with the above issues, to render my other small mixers redundant.

[Owen]

These are the reviews we need. 

[EBS_freak]

Agreed.

 

That ugly really is ugly.

 

I think it looks to be a super little mixer - but the only really big question mark is why they didn't include the ability to connect to their ME monitors. Seems like a marketing oversight - If you are looking to get people to lock into the Allen and Heath ecosytem, that would be a perfect way to do it - and they still has compatibility with the other mixers in the more budget end of their range... just seems like a bit of a dropped ball, especially when Ultranet and the affordability of the submixers are a killer feature of the XR18.

 

Dante would be nice - but again, it was never going to happen. The Dante card would be about as much as the mixer... and they wouldn't sell many for this level of mixer.

 

Anyway, despite some of the negatives, based on what I'm seeing, as I say -  it's a cracking little mixer.

Edited September 5, 2023 by EBS_freak

[LLOYDWT]

12 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I think it looks to be a super little mixer - but the only really big question mark is why they didn't include the ability to connect to their ME monitors. Seems like a marketing oversight - If you are looking to get people to lock into the Allen and Heath ecosytem, just seems like a bit of an oversight, especially when Ultranet and the affordability of the submixers are a killer feature of the XR18.

 

I imagine there was a fear, and probably a legitimate one, that it would nerf the demand for their "full fat" desks if these sub-£1000 mixers could accommodate the ME-1/500. I think the monitoring app is a pretty good compromise, but obviously you're limited to six unique mono outs, rather than the infinite stereo mixes you could achieve with an ME.

[Chienmortbb]

10 hours ago, LLOYDWT said:

The monitor app that's due out this month looks to allow you to mix from assignable sub groups

Can you elaborate? What is this monitor app of which you speak?

 

Thanks for the review, it is great and highlights some of the features I use and need that are currently missing. I remember the first iterations of the Soundcraft software/firmware were not great and the later upgrade gave them to me. 
 

At the moment, the lack of sub groups would be an issue to me, it’s how I control the drums. Mute FX would be a help.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Chienmortbb
Duplicated word

[LLOYDWT]

12 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Can you elaborate? What is this monitor app of which you speak?

 

Allen & Heath are releasing the CQ4You app this month, which looks to be limited to four sub-groups for personal mixing. It allows users to connect to the mixer from their phones for access to edit their own Aux out only.

 

There isn't much detail, but I imagine, from what I've gleaned from videos and A&H, is the subgroups accessible are defined by via parameters on the principal mixing app (or on the mixer itself if using the 12/18T). I presume, if they're going to the trouble of allowing you to define subgroups for monitor mixing purposes, you could also use these subgroups for the master mix too.

 

Very limited details re. the app are here — https://www.allen-heath.com/cq/cq4you/

Edited September 5, 2023 by LLOYDWT

[Chienmortbb]

39 minutes ago, LLOYDWT said:

It allows users to connect to the mixer from their phones for access to edit their own Aux out only.

That is almost exactly how I use groups on the Ui. Vocals, Guitars and Drums 🤞

[Owen]

10 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

it’s how I control the drums. 

So many possible comments here....

[Phil Starr]

On 26/08/2023 at 14:16, EBS_freak said:

Now these look interesting - Allen and Heaths new line of CQ mixers.

 

"Allen & Heath has unveiled its new CQ series, a trio of compact digital mixers for musicians and bands, audio engineers, home producers, small venues, and AV installers, that places ease of use and speed of setup firmly at the heart of the user experience.
“CQ takes our renowned processing and effects, adds exciting new assistive mixing tools, and packages it all up into our smallest, and most affordable, digital mixer series yet,” says Keith Johnson, Product Manager at Allen & Heath. “Usually at this price point, users are forced to choose between a mid-range analogue mixer, lacking in modern features, or an entry-level digital mixer, where corners have inevitably been cut. With CQ there are no compromises. It’s a fully featured 96kHz mixer with stunning audio quality and intelligent tools that, regardless of your experience, lets you mix smarter, sound better and work faster. Just add sound!”
Built around an innovative new 96kHz processing engine, the series comprises the CQ-12T and CQ-18T desktop mixers featuring tactile controls and a seven-inch multi-touch screen, and the portable CQ-20B stage box mixer, all controllable via the companion CQ apps.
The processing engine, utilising Allen & Heath’s FPGA technology, brings numerous time-saving tools to the CQ to speed up and simplify common tasks for users of all abilities. Gain Assistant automatically sets preamp gain to the optimal level and monitors and adjusts for any unexpected peaks in the signal. Feedback Assistant identifies and filters out problem frequencies across all outputs via simple one-button operation, with more in-depth control available for challenging acoustical environments.
Input channels can be switched between a Quick Input, giving users a source-specific set of controls with single knob control of channel processing, or a Complete Input for full control of all channel processing parameters. Additionally, an Automatic Mic Mixer (AMM) is present on all input channels, instantly improving clarity and reducing background noise in speech-based applications.
The CQ range also introduces a new suite of high-quality, user-friendly reverb, delay and modulation algorithms with instrument-specific presets for speedy setup, while the FX Assist tool shapes the FX by dynamically responding to the input signal for optimal clarity. The CQ-18T and CQ-20B offer 4 FX engines and the CQ-12T features 2 FX engines.
All three CQ mixers benefit from flexible recording and playback options including a multichannel USB audio interface, multitrack SD card playback and recording, simple stereo recording and playback via an external USB drive, plus convenient stereo Bluetooth playback.
The CQ series is supported by a pair of free multi-platform apps. The CQ-MixPad app enables remote control of the mixer from anywhere in the venue, while the CQ4You app empowers performers to take control of their personal monitor mix via their mobile devices. The CQ-18T and CQ-20B also benefit from integrated high-performance dual-band Wi-Fi for quick and easy connection of control apps without any additional network equipment.
The CQ-18T provides 16 mic/line inputs and 1 stereo input, the smaller CQ-12T includes 10 mic/line inputs and 1 stereo input, and the stage-friendly CQ-20B offers 16 mic/line inputs, two of which can be used as Hi-Z instrument inputs, and 2 stereo inputs. All three models feature 6 independent outputs which can be configured to run up to 3 stereo outputs."

 

Yum. If pricing is right, these look spot on.

Damn You again 😂

 

I don't usually suffer from GAS but these look spot on, I don't need the extra facilities but if this had been on offer when I bought My RCF mixer it would have been 'the One'. The CQ20 for me would be spot on. Metal boxes, flexibility, a functioning router, all the sockets visible, intuitive looking software and only a couple of hundred quid more expensive. I'm almost hoping my mixer breaks

 

 

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Damn You again 😂

 

I don't usually suffer from GAS but these look spot on, I don't need the extra facilities but if this had been on offer when I bought My RCF mixer it would have been 'the One'. The CQ20 for me would be spot on. Metal boxes, flexibility, a functioning router, all the sockets visible, intuitive looking software and only a couple of hundred quid more expensive. I'm almost hoping my mixer breaks

 

 

Sell the RCF before more people clock on about the AH! 

[LLOYDWT]

The CQ4You app was released yesterday. I spent a bit of time playing with it last night (on the train in the demo environment, so please take the below with a pinch of salt until I've had the opportunity to test it with the mixer tonight).

 

I installed it on my Android phone, a Pixel 6a.

 

The main page has four sub groups and a master fader that can be set to any one of the six aux outs. The app suggests you lock the fader to the output you're using to stop erroneous changes to the wrong monitor mix.

 

If you double click a sub group you can name it. Just like the channels on the main mixing app, sub-group names are limited to six characters. Once you've named your sub group, you can select which channels you want to put in it.

 

To add sub groups you click "ASSIGN" and you're then presented with a screen that shows you all 16 mono inputs and stereos 1, 3 and 4 (stereos 1 and 2 are dual 1/4 inch TS cables, stereo 3 is USB and stereo 4  is Bluetooth — I don't know why stereo 2 isn't selectable — perhaps it's visible on the 20B which is the only mixer to offer a second dual TS input, I'll confirm later).

 

You're not limited to the number of channels you add to a subgroup.

 

After selecting the channels you want in your sub group, you click "BACK" and you can then mix the channels within the subgroup. You're limited to master volume only, and, presumably, post EQ (there is no option to choose).

 

After selecting, naming and mixing all of your desired sub groups, you can go back to the main page where you can control the four sub-group faders and the master out.

 

If you change the aux output, your mix follows you to the new aux output — so you can't use one phone to mix multiple monitor mixes, every user has to use their own device to mix their own monitor.

 

FX isn't mixable. If I control the monitor mix via the main mixing app, I can add the FX channels to the monitor mix. If you do it via CQ4You, you can't get any FX.

 

Stereo mixes aren't possible. It's not even possible to hack a stereo monitor mix, as the app will  literally only allow you to mix to a single aux output.

 

And finally, the sub groups are entirely defined within CQ4You, so sub-group functionality is still non-existent within the main  mixing app.

 

This is a mixed bag for me. The app is, in some ways, more functional than I expected, but the end result (no stereo, no FX) is less than I'd hoped for. Though, you could argue, if someone is wanting to handle their own stereo, FX-infused mix, why not give them access to the main mixing app and let them do it there.

 

Being able to mix USB and Bluetooth is good, as, if you're playing with backing tracks, it gives you more options to get those tracks into the mix.

 

I guess, much like the main mixing app, CQ-MixPad, CQ4You is a good starting point, and I imagine that A&H will make improvements in the short term that could turn this setup into a real powerhouse.

 

[EBS_freak]

Stereo mixers aren't possible. Whut? Aw man. That's pants.

[EBS_freak]

Looking at the sales specs - - Output: 6x Mono Aux 1/4" TRS Jacks (linkable)

 

What's the linkable thing about?

 

I would have thought you would have had to link on the mixer and then your remote monitor mix will just assume control of that linked pair? (Then I'm guessing additional options like pan will appear in the app?)

[LLOYDWT]

30 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I would have thought you would have had to link on the mixer and then your remote monitor mix will just assume control of that linked pair? (Then I'm guessing additional options like pan will appear in the app?)

 

I'll try this tonight and let you know.

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Damn You again 😂

 

I don't usually suffer from GAS but these look spot on, I don't need the extra facilities but if this had been on offer when I bought My RCF mixer it would have been 'the One'. The CQ20 for me would be spot on. Metal boxes, flexibility, a functioning router, all the sockets visible, intuitive looking software and only a couple of hundred quid more expensive. I'm almost hoping my mixer breaks

 

 

Me Too Phil.

[jimmyb625]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Looking at the sales specs - - Output: 6x Mono Aux 1/4" TRS Jacks (linkable)

 

What's the linkable thing about?

 

I would have thought you would have had to link on the mixer and then your remote monitor mix will just assume control of that linked pair? (Then I'm guessing additional options like pan will appear in the app?)

I'd guess that would be the way to do it. I think it's because the CQ doesn't have stereo aux as standard (unlike the QU with 5&6, 7&8, 9&10)

 

ETA - I think the link function is the same as they use on the inputs, where you can set up a stereo pair easily. Caveating to say I haven't got a CQ and I've not looked at the full app yet. It does make me wonder though, if I can link the mono auxes on the QU.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by jimmyb625

[jimmyb625]

If you swipe across on the assign channels page, you get the FX features.

 

I couldn't find individual mix eq, which is something the QUyou app has, but then again that's a more expensive unit. Do the aux outs have eq on them on the main CQ app?