Compact mixing desks - what are you using?

[dave_bass5]

10 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

The CQ20 is the A&H mixer you should have looked at. The XR18 is cheaper and is expandable and could be all you need. The thing that put me off the Behringers is the WiFi. It is truly unusable, as is that of the Soundcraft UI series without an external router (I have owned one of each). The CQ18/20  are much more robust.

I wasn’t lying in my post above about using the built in WiFi 🤔

It has its uses in my experience. 
 

Edited October 18 by dave_bass5

[tauzero]

9 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

The CQ20 is the A&H mixer you should have looked at. The XR18 is cheaper and is expandable and could be all you need. The thing that put me off the Behringers is the WiFi. It is truly unusable, as is that of the Soundcraft UI series without an external router (I have owned one of each). The CQ18/20  are much more robust.

 

The fact that it's truly unusable hasn't stopped me using it a few times. I do normally use an external router. I did get caught out moving from an XR12 to an XR18 as there's a USB socket that can be used to power the router on the XR12 which isn't there on the XR18.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ah, forget the XR18 is called the X-Air. Not aware of a more basic model though, other than those with less channels. The X18 is the one with the tablet feature. Not sure what tablet will work with it these days.

 

The X18 (which is what I have) is functionaly identical to the XR18 with a few connector differences (and when i bought it, quite a sizeable price difference). It just has a tray on the front that is presumably meant to hold a tablet but never actually did if you wanted to plug it in. The differences that the X18 has vs XR18 are that the 17-18 sockets are RCA vs Jack, the 6 aux outputs are TRS instead of XLR, and the X18 aerial is internal instead of sticking out. One was designed for the desk, and one for the floor.

 

There was never an X/XR without a wifi

[Chienmortbb]

11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The differences that the X18 has vs XR18 are that the 17-18 sockets are RCA vs Jack, the 6 aux outputs are TRS instead of XLR

The CQ18 has a lot of TRS outputs, one other reason went for the CQ20.

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The X18 (which is what I have) is functionaly identical to the XR18 with a few connector differences (and when i bought it, quite a sizeable price difference). It just has a tray on the front that is presumably meant to hold a tablet but never actually did if you wanted to plug it in. The differences that the X18 has vs XR18 are that the 17-18 sockets are RCA vs Jack, the 6 aux outputs are TRS instead of XLR, and the X18 aerial is internal instead of sticking out. One was designed for the desk, and one for the floor.

 

There was never an X/XR without a wifi

Yeah, i looked it up. I remember thinking at the time it came out it was a cool idea, but when looking for a new mixer i couldn’t  figure out how it would work with modern day iPads as they have changed size and shape, not to mention connectivity over the years. 

Edited October 18 by dave_bass5

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yeah, i looked it up. I remember thinking at the time it camos out it was a cool idea, but when looking for a new mixer i couldn’t  figure out how it would work with modern day iPads as they have changed size and shape, not to mention connectivity over the years. 

 

Well, an iPad mini fits in the front, as do I am sure, lots of android things too (like the fire), if you wanted to use it for that. If not, it is a great place to put your keys so you remember where you put them.

[Pirellithecat]

On 17/10/2024 at 19:51, Al Krow said:

 

 

Seems that my thinking that these could come in very handy wasn't a bad shout, if you've taken a liking to that feature? Together with the router (and B stock price!) persuaded me to go for the CQ18T rather than its baby brother. It seems solidly built, but whether it's as tank like as the CQ20 only time will tell...

 

So, whens the CQ18-T's first outing?  We expect a "warts an' all" write-up!   Can hardly wait!  

[Al Krow]

53 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

So, whens the CQ18-T's first outing?  We expect a "warts an' all" write-up!   Can hardly wait!  

 

Sadly its arrival is too soon for a function gig on Wed and then I've got a bit of annual leave coming up when I won't be gigging, so we will need to be sticking to the old analogue desk for a little while yet. You may have a bit more immediate joy from the chaps over on @warwickhunt's CQ desk thread 😊

 

Edited October 21 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

On 21/10/2024 at 16:04, Pirellithecat said:

So, whens the CQ18-T's first outing?  We expect a "warts an' all" write-up!   Can hardly wait!  

 

Back at my desk (excuse the pun!) and had a little bit of time to start getting up to speed on the CQ18T. I'd got a very basic idea of the controls after an hour or so, in particular the inputs and outputs, and reckon should have the same level of functionality on this as my analogue desk and be in a position to use for a gig within another couple of hours. The touch screen is really easy to use and the rotary dials can separately operate the faders (in addition to having option to do that on the touch screen) which gives a greater level of finesse for anyone who doesn't have dainty fingers.

 

The ability to save "scenes" to suit a particular line up / vocalist and have the ability to deliver 6 tailored outputs to every band member, combined with the compact size of the unit seem to be worth the entry ticket on this piece of kit alone. And that's before doing any deep dive in terms of flexible EQ & FX for every channel plus the benefit of a built in router allowing us to tweak settings on the fly from the audience, all of which I will need to get my head around.

 

But I'm already struggling to see how this isn't going to be a step up for our band!

 

Edited November 20 by Al Krow

[Phil Starr]

16 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

But I'm already struggling to see how this isn't going to be a step up for our band!

I'll bet the fear factor has already dropped a level or two @Al Krow It's just so easy to see what you are doing at a glance and everything is so visual. I always found it hard to switch from one analogue desk to another and pick out what tweaks had been made to each channel when you have a few hundred physical knobs, buttons and sliders. I used litle bits of tape to mark most of the settings on the vocal eq so I could recall a basic setting. So much easier to be able to see the response curve for each channel on screen and simply save settings.

 

First gig with mine I allowed an extra hour to set up the mix and it was actually quicker to set up than using the analogue mixer I'd run for years. I was so nervous about the loss of physical sliders. That seems insane now, digital gives you so much more control and becomes second nature within three or four gigs. This is going to be so much fun, I'm jealous of your next steps.

[dave_bass5]

Best advice i can give is take it a rehearsal or two and get used to it. Also let the band get used to it. The more familiar everyone is the smoother things will go at the gig. 
I always take mine now, as there is always something i need to tweak or figure out. We just run the stereo out in to the studio’s desk. 

Edited November 21 by dave_bass5

[warwickhunt]

Just now, dave_bass5 said:

Best advice i can give is take it a rehearsal or two and get used to it. Also let the band get used to it. The more familiar everyone is the smoother things will go at the gig. 

 

I take our QC12 desk to all of our rehearsals (at a professional rehearsal space); I simply swap out the speaker leads of the in-house desk for our desk!  All settings saved and quicker set up times plus I get to practice using the desk.

 

[dave_bass5]

6 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I take our QC12 desk to all of our rehearsals (at a professional rehearsal space); I simply swap out the speaker leads of the in-house desk for our desk!  All settings saved and quicker set up times plus I get to practice using the desk.

 

I’ve never thought of plugging the speakers directly in to our desk. I normally just use two channels with everting flat and panned hard left/right. They are powered so i could. Might do that next time. 

[Al Krow]

47 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Best advice i can give is take it a rehearsal or two and get used to it. Also let the band get used to it. The more familiar everyone is the smoother things will go at the gig. 
I always take mine now, as there is always something i need to tweak or figure out. We just run the stereo out in to the studio’s desk. 

 

43 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I take our QC12 desk to all of our rehearsals (at a professional rehearsal space); I simply swap out the speaker leads of the in-house desk for our desk!  All settings saved and quicker set up times plus I get to practice using the desk.

 

 

You gents seem to have much more joy getting your crews to rehearsals, haha! How often do you guys rehearse vs gig?

 

We will hopefully manage to get a rehearsal in ahead of our NYE gig as we are doing that one with a couple of deps, but we've another 8 gigs in the diary before then, so I'll need to get up to speed beforehand and tweak at the gigs. They're all used to IEMs already - so hopefully the only difference for the drummer and guitarist is that they can have bespoke monitor feeds rather than just getting the FoH mix.

 

Ideally they will be able to use the A&H CQ app on their phones to tweak their own personal monitor feedback to suit - is that something you are doing for those of you with the A&H CQ desks / other digital desks?

Edited November 21 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

We don’t rehearse that often, but this year we had a dep bass player and currently a dep singer so have done maybe 10/16 this year for various reasons. They band do like to rehearse. 
While mine do have their own mixes, only me, Dawn (not the sep singer)and the drummer do any adjustments at gigs, and only vary rarely. 

Edited November 21 by dave_bass5

[Phil Starr]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

 

You gents seem to have much more joy getting your crews to rehearsals, haha! How often do you guys rehearse vs gig?

 

We will hopefully manage to get a rehearsal in ahead of our NYE gig at the end of the year as we are doing that one with a couple of deps, but we've another 8 gigs in the diary before then, so I'll need to get up to speed beforehand and tweak at the gigs. They're all used to IEMs already - so hopefully the only difference for the drummer and guitarist is that they can have bespoke monitor feeds rather than just getting the FoH mix.

 

Ideally they will be able to use the A&H CQ app on their phones to tweak their own personal monitor feedback to suit - is that something you are doing for those of you with the A&H CQ desks / other digital desks?

I pretty much take the mixer to all rehearsals, it's so much simpler and saves so much time. It's down now to plug and play.

 

Just like everyone else I think a couple of 'technical' rehearsals before changing something as fundamental as your mixer is really important. There are little things that you have to learn with every mixer and you'll probably want to do some basic eq for every channel as well as set up some reverb and delay on the vocals. On top of that you want to introduce the band members to doing their own monitor mix and this all takes time. My bands are all aware of the need to get the technical stuff right and are moderately happy to support all this. I try to make sure that it's about making each of them "sound as good as possible" through the PA and they love that. Generally speaking we try to rehearse only when needed and gig as often as possible so we rarely do wasted rehearsals. We'd never go more than a month without meeting up though so if gigs have been sparse or someone has had a long holiday we'll try to run through the set just before a gig.

 

On monitor mixes I just tell them "it's better to do your own mix but I'll do it for you if you are struggling" None of them have ever really struggled with the mixing part of this but they regularly fail to log on to the wi-fi or log onto someone else's channel. The failsafe is to give them a FOH mix with 3db 'more me'

Edited November 21 by Phil Starr

[dave_bass5]

7 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

.

 

On monitor mixes I just tell them "it's better to do your own mix but I'll do it for you if you are struggling" None of them have ever really struggled with the mixing part of this but they regularly fail to log on to the wi-fi or log onto someone else's channel. The failsafe is to give them a FOH mix with 3db 'more me'

My lot are similar. Ok with doing their mixes but hardly ever get around to it. I always save everything after each gig, and generally it’s close enough next time that they don’t need to bother. They normally ask me to turn things up and down, which is fine but i do also tell them they need to do it to really fine tune it. I then get the ‘how can i do that if im playing’ questions. Its easier for me as i have the main ipad on close by, not sure how a guitarist can do it while using two hands, but our IEM mixes are static so, once set they reply get moved on a gig to gig basis.

When i got my XR18 i labeled everything up, colour coded the sockets and printed out small diagrams for everyone. Pretty sure some of the band are both colour blind and illiterate 🙄

Edited November 21 by dave_bass5

[warwickhunt]

I've joined a new band so rehearsing to get up to speed (sax player has just been added to).  The CQ12 doesn't allow for individuals to set own mixes so I just set an 'average' mix for everyone with each of the 6 individual aux outs that are assigned to members having a bit more of that person in the mix.  

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

I've joined a new band so rehearsing to get up to speed (sax player has just been added to).  The CQ12 doesn't allow for individuals to set own mixes so I just set an 'average' mix for everyone with each of the 6 individual aux outs that are assigned to members having a bit more of that person in the mix.  

I have learned something new about the CQs. I new that the 12 had no WiFi and limited effects compared to the 18/20 but did not know that it could not use the monitor app. Does that change  if you use a standalone WiFi router?

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I have learned something new about the CQs. I new that the 12 had no WiFi and limited effects compared to the 18/20 but did not know that it could not use the monitor app. Does that change  if you use a standalone WiFi router?

 

 

I've pulled this from the A&H website which seems to indicate that the App control is also available on 12T as well as the 18T. I guess the 12T will be needing a standalone Wifi to make use of the App control. 

[warwickhunt]

4 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

I have learned something new about the CQs. I new that the 12 had no WiFi and limited effects compared to the 18/20 but did not know that it could not use the monitor app. Does that change  if you use a standalone WiFi router?

 

It will work if you add a router but not something I thought we needed but could be added later.

[Woodinblack]

how could the montor app work if you don't have some kind of network? I assume that is why it isn't listed.

Seems a huge oversite from A&H - wireless network devices cost pennies at manufacturing time, to leave it off the 12 seems crazy.

[Al Krow]

26 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

how could the montor app work if you don't have some kind of network? I assume that is why it isn't listed.

Seems a huge oversite from A&H - wireless network devices cost pennies at manufacturing time, to leave it off the 12 seems crazy.

 

Just to clarify - it is listed on the 12T ("App Control" icon)

[dave_bass5]

35 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

how could the montor app work if you don't have some kind of network? I assume that is why it isn't listed.

Seems a huge oversite from A&H - wireless network devices cost pennies at manufacturing time, to leave it off the 12 seems crazy.

As a cut down mixer maybe you are expected to add your own WiFi router if you need to use that, and save money if you don’t. This is not like the XR where you have to use an external device. 

Edited November 21 by dave_bass5

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

As a cut down mixer maybe you are expected to add your own WiFi router if you need to use that, and save money if you don’t. This is not like the XR where you have to use an external device. 

 

the A&H is a new device, the XR is a decade old device at this point and the wifi was not uncommon at the time, and available on all the models 12/16 and both 18s. And you don't 'have' to use an external device, I didn't for years and only once had an issue.

 

The point is there is virtually no saving for the company not having a wifi built in and whether you call it 'cut down' or not, is still considerably more expensive than the most expensive of the XR mixers.