Compact mixing desks - what are you using?

[EBS_freak]

USP of 96khz and probably A and H see themselves as a step above Behringer. Maybe a comparison to the MR18 would be more appropriate? 

[Woodinblack]

I am a big fan of the X-Airs, they are what made the digital mixers a thing that groups like mine could use, but I do see the A&H as a more premium offering - if I was in the market from scratch I would certainly consider that. As it is I have over 100 gigs down with the X18 and I have 100% faith in the behringer which I have in very little equipment, so personally I wouldn't change from this to that. But if you don't have that history, I can see it being a good option.

[dave_bass5]

I wonder how many people will HAVE to swap over because they can’t possibly gig with ‘only’ 48khz. 😇

[51m0n]

8 hours ago, tauzero said:

CQ-20B, competing with the XR18, is £780. £220 more than the XR18. That's quite a price differential.

In fairness, the tech thet have in there is a decade newer than the x series. 

 

Whether that really translates to more useful in the intended setting or not I couldn't comment. 

 

But on paper the hardware is significantly more powerful.

 

Doesn't do ultranet though, so no good to me.

[51m0n]

4 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I wonder how many people will HAVE to swap over because they can’t possibly gig with ‘only’ 48khz. 😇

Higher sample rates drop latency

 

That's the only possible advantage IMO

 

And it's very tenuous since there's nothing wrong with the XAir latency at all.

[JPJ]

The USP I can see is that its Allen & Heath. I've had my XR18 almost since launch in the UK and whilst the hardware has never let me down, there have been a couple of occasions where Behringer have failed to keep the app up to date with iOS updates. And before anyone says 'Mixing Station', I have it but I much prefer the UI and workflow/ease of use of the Behringer native app. 

[Chienmortbb]

Sound On Sound review here. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/allen-heath-cq-18t

[dave_bass5]

47 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

Higher sample rates drop latency

 

That's the only possible advantage IMO

 

And it's very tenuous since there's nothing wrong with the XAir latency at all.

Yeah, my comment was sarcastic. 
You know how it goes. New thing comes out and suddenly the perfectly working previous model is useless 😂

Must admit they do look very tempting. More advanced than the XR18. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by dave_bass5

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

There have been a couple of occasions where Behringer have failed to keep the app up to date with iOS updates. And before anyone says 'Mixing Station', I have it but I much prefer the UI and workflow/ease of use of the Behringer native app. 

 

I wouldn't say 'Mixing station' as I don't like it, but I would say 'why did you need to update the iOS device you use with your mixer', what did you need the update for? The iPad i use with my mixer cost £90, and that is what it does, gigging stuff. The only time it would be updated would be if the gigging stuff needed it.

[tauzero]

32 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I wouldn't say 'Mixing station' as I don't like it, but I would say 'why did you need to update the iOS device you use with your mixer', what did you need the update for? The iPad i use with my mixer cost £90, and that is what it does, gigging stuff. The only time it would be updated would be if the gigging stuff needed it.

 

Or get an Android tablet.

[dave_bass5]

36 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I wouldn't say 'Mixing station' as I don't like it, but I would say 'why did you need to update the iOS device you use with your mixer', what did you need the update for? The iPad i use with my mixer cost £90, and that is what it does, gigging stuff. The only time it would be updated would be if the gigging stuff needed it.

Not everyone has or wants a dedicated iPad or device. Some do, some don’t. 
Also I’ve  not had much luck with the latest version of X-Air on iOS, so I do stick with Mixing station which works perfectly on the same iPad as X-Air. 
I have a cut down layout that we can hand to friends out in the audience (ones we trust obviously) to keep the vocals and keyboards balanced. This is much better than giving them the full blown X-Air layout. 
I also like the idea that I can use it on my iPhone if I see anything going astray I can override it from the stage. 
 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

I also like the idea that I can use it on my iPhone if I see anything going astray I can override it from the stage.

 

I have it on my iPhone, in case I forget the iPad at some point as it happened once.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, tauzero said:

 

Or get an Android tablet.

 

Yeh, don't have to go crazy there!

[EBS_freak]

5 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Sound On Sound review here. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/allen-heath-cq-18t

Con: External PSU (I'd like to see a Power con)

Pro: External PSU (I'd rather have a external adapter than a transformer in the box that causes noise on the pres/channels - downside of small form factor)

[EBS_freak]

5 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yeah, my comment was sarcastic. 
You know how it goes. New thing comes out and suddenly the perfectly working previous model is useless 😂

Must admit they do look very tempting. More advanced than the XR18. 

Agree.

 

All those full frame cameras and lenses that become rubbish because the next iteration came out!

 

Anyway...

 

There is no need for people to ditch their XR18s for A&Hs. The people that are going to do that, are the same people that like changing their bass all the time. There's still GAS in the PA world.

Anybody that has build a monitoring solution around Ultranet or wants to use A&Hs ME solutions are going to be disappointed. (This is the big omission for me and if I was in the market for such a thing, as somebody that wants stereo IEMs, 3 auxes is a bit , especially when in the Ultranet world, adding stereo sub mixers is pretty cheap compared to buying a mixer with loads of auxes) 

 

I didn't mention it before, but it's the QSC mixer that's really going to take the heat from this release. I just can't see anybody wanting to buy a TouchMix now. Ever.

 

 

 

[Jakester]

35 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

 

 

I didn't mention it before, but it's the QSC mixer that's really going to take the heat from this release. I just can't see anybody wanting to buy a TouchMix now. Ever.

 

 

 

 

Lol - just sent the details of the A&H to a mate who's literally just bought a TM16. Crying face emoji was the response!

 

I have one, I've had it for a while - it's great for what I need it for. It has way more Auxes than the A&H (it has two stereo aux outs as well as 6 mono ones) and has the same features. The TM16 has more channels than the A&H too, but has broadly the same feature set. I daresay the A&H user interface is a bit better though!

 

If I was looking now, the £500 price differential between the QSC and A&H would be too much for me - I'm lucky, I got mine 2nd hand from a large retailer, so I have their warranty and the price saving which meant it was less than the A&H. Doubt I'd buy one new now though. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Jakester

[LLOYDWT]

I bought the CQ-20B, and it arrived yesterday.

 

I own a Midas MR18 and a Korg MW1608, and I regularly run live sound with a Midas M32 and have a fair amount of experience with other "prosumer" and  pro-grade mixers too (Midas/Behringer, A&H, Yamaha, PreSonus, Soundcraft, etc.).

 

I primarily bought the Midas for use when I was doing the sound and playing, but I now tend to use it exclusively for when I'm purely running sound.

I bought the Korg with the intention of its being a permanent installation in my practice room, but it's the mixer I tend to choose when I'm both playing and doing sound now.

 

I used to play and mix relatively large events at relatively large venues, but since Covid I've been keeping far closer to home and have been consciously trying to put together a system that can approximate the features I grew used to on larger gigs but fits in the boot of my car and at a less eye-watering price point.

 

An outsized frustration of mine with the Midas is the poor implementation of WiFi on the mixer. Having to carry a dedicated router, find space for it and power it definitely detracts from the appeal of the MR18. Another niggle with a stage-box mixer is the responsibility falls solely to me as the only person with an iPad, and I end up making endless monitor mix changes for others.

 

Despite the form factor of the MW1608, it's been a more convenient mixer for use whilst playing with a band whilst mixing, with people able to take ownership of their own monitor mixes, and, with the sub-group faders (somewhat rare in this form factor), people taking some ownership of the master mix too.

 

My final niggle with both mixers, which has only been a reality for me since upgrading both my phone and iPad last year, is the lack of Bluetooth support. Neither my phone nor my iPad has a 3.5mm out, so I end up running either a Bluetooth dongle (unreliable and poor battery-life) or a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter into a 3.5mm extension cable (ungainly and a trip/tangle hazard) in order to play music between sets.

 

I was sold on the CQ-20B purely on the improved native WiFi, the Bluetooth implementation and the monitor mix features. (Also, the mic-gain summing appeals for the rare occasions I mix speaking engagements.)

 

The 18T appealed, but with my usage, I imagine the built-in screen would've ended up being somewhat redundant; the extra stereo in on the 20B, the form-factor and lower price point made the decision easier.

 

I wouldn't have bought this were I not confident I can shift the MR18 fairly easily, and I've recently sold a Shure Dante system with mics with the justification of rationalising some of my audio gear.

 

I'll not be gigging with it for a few weeks, but I took it through its paces in my practice room yesterday and my first impressions are all really positive. The UI, in my opinion, is an improvement over the Midas/Behringer app. Everything is very intuitive and I found every feature or parameter I was looking for in seconds. No matter how hard I tried (distance, interfering devices on the same frequencies/channels), I couldn't get my tablet or phone to disconnect from the unit's WiFi and there was no discernible lag whilst mixing. It's built like a tank, the MR18/XR18 is a well put together unit, but this looks and feels far sturdier.

 

I bought the soft case too, an impulse purchase. Most of my gear is in flight cases, but I was conscious that I'd be gigging this before one was offered by Swan/Thon/etc. It's well put together and protects the unit really well. I'd argue it's a little overpriced for what it is, but I had some credit with Andertons which lessened the blow. I can't see myself replacing it with a flight case anytime soon.

 

I'll post again when I've had a chance to play with the FBA, the auto gain setting and the inbuilt FX, but I'll keep an eye on this thread if anybody has any specific questions or requests.

 

 

 

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Jakester said:

 

Lol - just sent the details of the A&H to a mate who's literally just bought a TM16. Crying face emoji was the response!

 

I have one, I've had it for a while - it's great for what I need it for. It has way more Auxes than the A&H (it has two stereo aux outs as well as 6 mono ones) and has the same features. The TM16 has more channels than the A&H too, but has broadly the same feature set. I daresay the A&H user interface is a bit better though!

 

If I was looking now, the £500 price differential between the QSC and A&H would be too much for me - I'm lucky, I got mine 2nd hand from a large retailer, so I have their warranty and the price saving which meant it was less than the A&H. Doubt I'd buy one new now though. 

 

Is your mate still within the return period (if he bought new)?

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Con: External PSU (I'd like to see a Power con)

 

For me that is a complete no

[Jakester]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Is your mate still within the return period (if he bought new)?

I think he got it 2nd hand. 

[Chienmortbb]

9 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

wouldn't say 'Mixing station' as I don't like it,

Me neither, the benefit is that you can use it on most Digital. Oxen’s but the UI is not to my liking.

 

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

For me that is a complete no

I was thinking about this, my Soundcraft uses a brick and whilst is is a pain at times, it does meant that a power supply failure does not need an RTB.

 

3 hours ago, LLOYDWT said:

was sold on the CQ-20B purely on the improved native WiFi, the Bluetooth implementation and the monitor mix features. (Also, the mic-gain summing appeals for the rare occasions I mix speaking engagements.)

The WiFi is the thing that lets the Behringer/Midas and Soundcraft down. It’s OK for the CQ18T where you have the screen built in but where you can not use an external device for the User Interface, it sucks. What is the spec of the power supply brick, volts and amps?

 

How are you finding the mic preamps? The standard Behringer and Soundcraft ones have mixed reviews with the Soundcraft Ui24R has Studer preamps and the Midas and some of the Behringer have  Midas preamps.

[LLOYDWT]

16 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Me neither, the benefit is that you can use it on most Digital. Oxen’s but the UI is not to my liking.

 

I was thinking about this, my Soundcraft uses a brick and whilst is is a pain at times, it does meant that a power supply failure does not need an RTB.

 

The WiFi is the thing that lets the Behringer/Midas and Soundcraft down. It’s OK for the CQ18T where you have the screen built in but where you can not use an external device for the User Interface, it sucks. What is the spec of the power supply brick, volts and amps?

 

How are you finding the mic preamps? The standard Behringer and Soundcraft ones have mixed reviews with the Soundcraft Ui24R has Studer preamps and the Midas and some of the Behringer have  Midas preamps.

 

The 20B doesn't have an external brick. It takes an IEC C13 directly into the unit (another reason I chose the 20B over the 18T).

 

I haven't had an opportunity to take a critical ear to the mic pres yet, but I briefly ran  a Shure KSM8 into it whilst I played around with it last night (without EQ changes or FX) and my first impressions were good. The KSM8 is a very easy mic to work with, and without adjusting anything it reproduced my vocals excellently (through both a pair of Shure SRH840As and into a pair of QSC CSM12s). I'd say, they're transparent, but I'll reserve judgement for now. I'll have a more thorough play with a wider selection of mics tomorrow.

 

So far my messing has been predominantly with a Korg Nautilus and guitars and basses through a Quad Cortex at neighbour-pleasing volumes.

 

 

 

 

[LLOYDWT]

Another great feature is the firmware upgrade happening via the app over WiFi between my iPad and the 20B. I usually loathe updating firmware on devices for all the hoops you have to jump through, but the 20B is two buttons. One to start the process on the tablet and one to confirm the process on the unit; the whole thing took about 2 minutes; no formatting of USBs/SD Cards and downloading files from websites, just a super simple click, click.

[Owen]

QSC CSM. Nice. 

[LLOYDWT]

28 minutes ago, Owen said:

QSC CSM. Nice. 

 

They're back-breakingly heavy, but they're the best speakers I've ever owned by a mile, and it's not even close.